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    1. Top | #21
      silvershamaa is offline
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      The strangest thing is definitely the points allocations of the World Team Championships (Ma Long getting only 1500 while Xu Xin gets 1750 and Fan Zhendong gets 2000). Some of the world tour point allocations I saw were even weirder; people getting to the same stage of a certain type of tournament (like a Platinum world tour). People got something like 1873 points or something really abstract like that, there really seems to be no reason why. This month they seemed to have fixed these strange numbers.

    2. Top | #22
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      But although I know of the reasons why players are moving around the world rankings the way they are, I still find it ridiculous how it works. Some people who have had incredible results have actually DROPPED in ranking (just because of having some lucky/unlucky results a year ago), and what had seemed like exceptional results at a world tour didn't matter at all. Meanwhile, others had terrible results and somehow went UP.
      Here are some examples from this past month:

      - Jeoung Youngsik reached the semifinals of a huge tournament- Korea Open, even beating WR#2 Fan Zhendong, yet he dropped from 20 to 23. Although it's because some points expired, it's still a bit ridiculous that these types of results never get rewarded.
      - Mizutani only dropped 1 spot, 13 to 14, even though he got upsetted twice, never getting past the 1st round in any of the events this month.
      - Franziska only went up from 17 to 15, though he beat #6 Liang Jingkun, #7 Mattias Falck, AND reached the semifinals of the Australian open.
      - Gauzy went up 5 spots to #20, even though he never made it to the main draw, losing in the prelims, and losing in Round 1 in T2.
      - Koki Niwa went up 2 spots to #10, having an upset in the prelims by Cho Seungmin, then getting upset in R1 in the other open as well as T2.
      - Mattias Falck went up 2 spots to #7, losing to lower ranked players at every tournament.
      -Zheng Peifeng jumped 13 spots even though he lost in either prelims or in R1 in both world tours.

      Even though on paper, there is a reason for people losing points or maintaining points, but these results just don't look right, some almost ridiculous. It's not just that these rankings don't reflect a player's level and ability, now they often don't reflect real results either, and it's getting worse somehow.

    3. Top | #23
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      I think that there are some people here, who would prefer the Rating system over the Ranking one, and they were very active during the drop down of Ma Long. Now Ma Long is going up because of his ultimate performance, but people argue for the other players rankings. The system is what it is and its the same for all players.
      Besides that, although the system is Ranking type, it has some Rating elements.

      "ITTF World Table Tennis Championships, ITTF World Junior Table TennisChampionships, ITTF World Cups, ITTF World Tour Grand Finals, Continental Championships and Continental Cups stay in the ITTF World Rankings until the next edition."

      In fact this rule acts as a Rating element in the Ranking system, giving more "weight" to the "best of them all".

    4. Top | #24
      TT Guru is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by silvershamaa View Post
      The strangest thing is definitely the points allocations of the World Team Championships (Ma Long getting only 1500 while Xu Xin gets 1750 and Fan Zhendong gets 2000). Some of the world tour point allocations I saw were even weirder; people getting to the same stage of a certain type of tournament (like a Platinum world tour). People got something like 1873 points or something really abstract like that, there really seems to be no reason why. This month they seemed to have fixed these strange numbers.
      Hi Silvershamaa,

      The World Team Championships is a great opportunity for players to earn points, but often you will see those from teams of five get less at the end of the day, this is because points are stacked by 'wins', rather than earned from 'stage reached.' as pongfurgrasshopper mentioned earlier in the thread. As an example, Liam Pitchford had a fantastic WTTTC, earning 2000 points because he played in every team match for England, whereas China sent five players, and spread out the participation. In some cases this meant the team champs did not even make it into their top 8 results. Also, World Championships are valid for two years, until the next edition of that type of World Champs, making the points that much more significant.
      With regards to strange points among players who reached the same stage, that is a good question indeed, and one that confuses many. Group stage matches from the 2018 World Tour give stacked points on top of the points earned in the main draw. Now, in 2019 the World Tour doesn't have a group stage, rather a straight qualification KO draw, but those points earned in 2018 are valid for 12 months. I was not in favour of letting last year's expired rules affect this year's WR, but it went ahead anyway, which means it takes a whole year to see the adjustments to the regulations take effect.

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    6. Top | #25
      zeio is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by pongfugrasshopper View Post
      The new ranking system has not hurt China. They have six top 10 players on the women's side and five top 10 players on the men's side with Wang Chuqin sure to join that list in the not too distant future. You do have to be patient though.
      I'm not so sure.

      It took their men's team almost 1.5 years to recover the top-10 to the pre-2018 level. The women's team is actually still 1 spot away from the pre-2018 level for top 10. Both have trouble keeping up with the top-20 and top-100.

      Quote Originally Posted by zeio View Post
      Some folks predicted there would be more CNT players in the Top 10, but I thought otherwise the day the reform took effect.

      Half a year later, here is the breakdown of the World Ranking for the CNT in the Top 10, 20, and 100:

      Men's
      Dec, 2017 5/10, 8/20, 13/100
      Jan, 2018 4/10, 4/20, 8/100
      Jul, 2018 4/10, 4/20, 9/100

      Women's
      Dec, 2017 7/10, 9/20, 25/100
      Jan, 2018 4/10, 5/20, 9/100
      July, 2018 5/10, 7/20, 13/100

      While the Men's took less of a hit than the Women's, the number doesn't show much if any recovery. Even though the ITTF have loosened up on the number of entry for each association, the "no separation of association" rule and separate ranking list for U15, U18, U21 and senior players are really working against them here.
      ...
      Men's
      Dec, 2018 3/10, 4/20, 11/100
      Jan, 2019 3/10, 5/20, 10/100
      Feb, 2019 3/10, 5/20, 11/100
      Mar, 2019 3/10, 5/20, 11/100
      Apr, 2019 4/10, 5/20, 11/100
      May, 2019 5/10, 5/20, 11/100
      Jun, 2019 5/10, 5/20, 10/100
      Jul, 2019 5/10, 5/20, 11/100
      Aug, 2019 5/10, 5/20, 9/100

      Women's
      Dec, 2018 5/10, 6/20, 14/100
      Jan, 2019 5/10, 7/20, 14/100
      Feb, 2019 5/10, 7/20, 15/100
      Mar, 2019 5/10, 7/20, 16/100
      Apr, 2019 5/10, 7/20, 12/100
      May, 2019 5/10, 8/20, 14/100
      Jun, 2019 5/10, 7/20, 12/100
      Jul, 2019 5/10, 7/20, 13/100
      Aug, 2019 6/10, 7/20, 13/100

    7. Top | #26
      zeio is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by TT Guru View Post
      ...With regards to strange points among players who reached the same stage, that is a good question indeed, and one that confuses many. Group stage matches from the 2018 World Tour give stacked points on top of the points earned in the main draw. Now, in 2019 the World Tour doesn't have a group stage, rather a straight qualification KO draw, but those points earned in 2018 are valid for 12 months. I was not in favour of letting last year's expired rules affect this year's WR, but it went ahead anyway, which means it takes a whole year to see the adjustments to the regulations take effect.
      Another factor is that the point table has been adjusted down for 2019. As a result, the 2019 World Ranking is suffering a system-wide "deflation".

      https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/for...l=1#post250522
      2018
      1st 100%, 2nd 90%, 3rd 80%, 4th 75%...

      2019
      1st 100%, 2nd 85%, 3rd 65%, 4th 60%...

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    9. Top | #27
      pongfugrasshopper is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by zeio View Post
      I'm not so sure.

      It took their men's team almost 1.5 years to recover the top-10 to the pre-2018 level. The women's team is actually still 1 spot away from the pre-2018 level for top 10. Both have trouble keeping up with the top-20 and top-100.



      Men's
      Dec, 2018 3/10, 4/20, 11/100
      Jan, 2019 3/10, 5/20, 10/100
      Feb, 2019 3/10, 5/20, 11/100
      Mar, 2019 3/10, 5/20, 11/100
      Apr, 2019 4/10, 5/20, 11/100
      May, 2019 5/10, 5/20, 11/100
      Jun, 2019 5/10, 5/20, 10/100
      Jul, 2019 5/10, 5/20, 11/100
      Aug, 2019 5/10, 5/20, 9/100

      Women's
      Dec, 2018 5/10, 6/20, 14/100
      Jan, 2019 5/10, 7/20, 14/100
      Feb, 2019 5/10, 7/20, 15/100
      Mar, 2019 5/10, 7/20, 16/100
      Apr, 2019 5/10, 7/20, 12/100
      May, 2019 5/10, 8/20, 14/100
      Jun, 2019 5/10, 7/20, 12/100
      Jul, 2019 5/10, 7/20, 13/100
      Aug, 2019 6/10, 7/20, 13/100
      As previously mentioned, it does take patience. And actually, I argued for some bonus points on MyTT to expedite this. Most notably it took SYS seemingly forever to get back to top 10 when it was painfully clear that's where she belongs. I can definitely see Wang Yidi making top 10 if she were to enter more events. The CNT even withdrew CXT, WYD, HZJ, and GYT from T2. If they really wanted to dominate even more, they could enter 2nd Tier CNT players in more Challenge/Challenge Plus events, but I'm guessing China is taking global popularity of table tennis into consideration.

    10. Top | #28
      zeio is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by yoass View Post
      ...A lot of rules try to safeguard fairness one way but introduce some form of unfairness in another. An example would be the limit imposed by nation on the number of players that can take part in a tournament; on the one hand, this provides the non-superpowers a foothold to step up from and prove their worth, but on the other it means a large group of players from dominant nations has a larger hurdle to take.

      It's a balance, and it may not be the right balance at that — but that doesn't necessarily indicate a deeper conspiracy. At least, I wouldn't say it proves that.
      To illustrate it:
      US: Quantitative easing; agricultural subsidy...
      China: Currency manipulation; agricultural dumping...

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    12. Top | #29
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      World ranking rigged?

      I think you guys are also confusing the point distribution depending on the level of the tournament: ITTF world tour (1800 for 1st place) vs. world tour platinum (2250 for 1st place).

      Wait... as I look more there seem to be even more levels: world tour teams, grand finals... some how the Austrian open also had a buttload of points even though it wasn’t a platinum event. Unless it was listed incorrectly.

      Hmm

      Aren’t the points and prize money usually disclosed on the entry forms to each tournament? I thought I remember seeing one on these forums where everyone was discussing how low the prize money was?


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    13. Top | #30
      zeio is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl View Post
      First thing:

      OLYMPIC GAMES: The choice of limiting countries to 2 players in singles in the OLYMPICS HAD NOTHING, NOTHING, NOTHING to do with ITTF. That was the choice of the International Olympic Committee (IOC). The ITTF's choice was: comply or let Table Tennis cease to be an Olympic Sport. The IOC did the same thing in gymnastics events in non group competition. The reason? The Olympic Committee felt that the Olympics is about WORLDWIDE COOPERATION AND GOODWILL, and it would not be good to have any one country win GOLD, SILVER AND BRONZE thus blocking the possibility of any other country winning a medal. It had little to do with Table Tennis. The rule was implemented across sports where there was the potential for one country to win all the medals: where any one country could have enough entrants to win all the medals. So don't blame the ITTF for something that had nothing to do with and had no actual choice in the matter. Or do you think TT being dropped by the Olympics was a viable choice?
      For future reference:

      OLYMPIC AND PARALYMPIC COMMISSION MEETING

      Minutes of a meeting of the Olympic and Paralympic Commission held at 09h00 on
      25 May 2010 in the Holiday Inn, Moscow, Russia

      1. President's welcome and opening remarks: the President welcomed all members
      as well as the 2 technical delegates for the Olympic Games and the Table Tennis
      Manager of the London Olympic and Paralympic Games Organising Committee.

      2. Roll call
      Adham Sharara President
      Chérif Hajem Executive Vice-President
      Neil Harwood Executive Vice-President (Finance)
      Koji Kimura Executive Vice-President
      Melecio Rivera Executive Vice-President
      Petra Sörling Executive Vice-President
      Thomas Weikert Executive Vice-President

      Tony Yue Asian representative
      Khaled El Salhy African representative
      Claude Bergeret European representative
      Jairo Orlando Paez Latin American representative
      Mike Cavanaugh North American representative
      Patrick Gillman Oceania representative
      Nico Verspeelt Para Table Tennis representative

      In attendance
      Jordi Serra Executive Director (Operations and Olympic Games)
      Glenn Tepper Executive Director (Development)
      Judit Faragó Executive Director (Competitions)
      Mikael Andersson Executive Director (Education and Training)
      Alison Burchell Project Manager
      Richard Scruton LOCOG representative
      Yao Zhenxu Technical Delegate
      Graeme Ireland Technical Delegate

      Apologies
      Yang Shu’an Deputy President
      Khalil Al-Mohannadi Executive Vice-President

      ...

      5. Olympic Games 2012: the Commission noted that:
      ...
      5.3 Qualification and competition system:
      • the final qualification system was subject to the approval of the IOC;
      • the decisions from the Commission meeting held in Cartagena had been
      implemented and approved by the IOC Executive Board;
      • normally the Commission and Board of Directors would approve the
      qualification and competition system before the IOC approved it but this
      had not been possible due to time constraints;
      • should the Board not approve the qualification system, negotiations with
      the IOC would be re-opened;
      • following several meetings with the Minister of Sport of China, the Chinese
      Olympic Committee, and the CTTA, there had been final agreement that
      the restriction on the number of entries per NOC was in the best interest of
      the sport;
      • the IOC had originally proposed the restriction of entries per NOC and was
      delighted that it had been approved by the Commission;

      • the restriction on entries per NOC should be reviewed in the future;
      • diversification through expanding the number of events should be
      considered and the ITTF should not limit itself;
      • the IOC was finalising a general policy for P accreditations;
      • currently the coaches selected the doubles pair after the singles event but
      it was also possible that the selection process could be pre-determined.
      INTERNATIONAL TABLE TENNIS FEDERATION

      BOARD OF DIRECTORS’ MEETING

      Minutes


      of a meeting of the Board of Directors held on Friday 28 May 2010 at 09h00 in Moscow,
      Russia.

      1. Welcome and opening address: the President welcomed all Board members,
      President’s Advisory Council members and committee chairpersons to the meeting.
      The President presented an award to Mr Robert Bausch, Managing Director of Liebherr,
      the title sponsors of the World Team Table Tennis Championships in Moscow, in
      recognition of their contribution to the ITTF. The President also welcomed Tinsue,
      manufacturers of the floor for the 2012 Olympic and Paralympic Games, to the table
      tennis family.

      2. Roll call and new members: the Board noted that Mr M. C. Chowhan and Mr Yuri
      Posevin had passed away, and that Mr Khaled El-Salhy and Mr Jairo Paez had taken up
      the positions of presidents of the African and Latin American Unions respectively. The
      Board unanimously confirmed the appointments of the following:

      2.1 Thana Chaiprasit (to complete the Asian quota, replacing Mr Chowhan)
      2.2 Ebo Bartels (to complete African quota, replacing Mr El-Salhy)
      2.3 Oktay Cimen and Cristinel Romanescu (to complete European quota and to
      replace Mr Posevin).

      The Board noted that the replacement for Mr Jairo Orlando Paez as a Board member
      from the Latin American quota would be proposed to the 2011 Board meeting.

      The Board noted that 43 voting members were present.

      ...

      10. Olympic and Paralympic Games 2012: the Board noted that the preparations were
      well on track and Richard Scruton had taken up his post as LOCOG Table Tennis
      Manager.

      10.1 2012 Olympic qualification and competition system: the Board noted that:
      • this system had been approved by the Olympic and Paralympic Commission
      and by the IOC due to time constraints before approval by the Board;
      • should the Board not approve the system, the discussion with the IOC would
      start afresh;
      • the Chinese Table Tennis Association did not agree with the reduction in the
      number of entries per NOC but understood and accepted, with regret, the need
      to introduce it in the interest of the sport;
      • other sports had also introduced a reduction in the number of entries per event;


      The Board resolved to: accept the 2012 Olympic qualification and competition system
      (2 abstentions).

      The Board resolved to: consider in 2011 an increase in numbers of players for Oceania,
      Latin America and Africa for the 2016 Rio de Janeiro Olympic Games as well as to
      consider the reserve players for team events.

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    15. Top | #31
      pongfugrasshopper is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by alas26 View Post
      I think you guys are also confusing the point distribution depending on the level of the tournament: ITTF world tour (1800 for 1st place) vs. world tour platinum (2250 for 1st place).

      Wait... as I look more there seem to be even more levels: world tour teams, grand finals... some how the Austrian open also had a buttload of points even though it wasn’t a platinum event. Unless it was listed incorrectly.

      Hmm

      Aren’t the points and prize money usually disclosed on the entry forms to each tournament? I thought I remember seeing one on these forums where everyone was discussing how low the prize money was?


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      Are you referring to the Australian Open? That's a Platinum event. The Austrian Open is in November and is also a Platinum event.

    16. Top | #32
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      Quote Originally Posted by pongfugrasshopper View Post
      Are you referring to the Australian Open? That's a Platinum event. The Austrian Open is in November and is also a Platinum event.
      Yes, but in 2018 it seems to be listed as just a World Tour. Did it just turn platinum?

      Example:



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    17. Top | #33
      pongfugrasshopper is offline
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      That must be a misprint. 2018 Austrian Open was also a Platinum Event.

      Quote Originally Posted by alas26 View Post
      Yes, but in 2018 it seems to be listed as just a World Tour. Did it just turn platinum?

      Example:



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