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    1. Top | #21
      yoass is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by NextLevel View Post
      I didn't remember a slapping counter. There was more forearm rotation even on counters that I remember used to be flat. But.maybe I am just biased. I agree with you largely by the way.
      I just watched, and the final game is what lead to what I said. Maybe my lyin’ eyes are showing me what I want to see. I’ll rewatch.

    2. Top | #22
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      Quote Originally Posted by yogi_bear View Post
      Maybe he is not as physically capable than those Chinese players.
      +1


      I mean at some point physics have to come into play. This is why so many Japanese players have trouble matching up compared to Chinese. They're naturally smaller and just not on the same level power wise.


      Now Tomokazu is taller than some of his teammates but he's still undersized when comes to sheer LBS compared to the competition.


      Hopefully he's consuming a lot of calories and hitting the weight room.

    3. Top | #23
      zeio is offline
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      Took me so much time to dig these up.

      2019/4/29
      https://lavender.5ch.net/test/read.c...556535774/-100
       韓国は今大会、張本智和を破った世界ランク157位の安宰賢が銅メダルを獲得したのを筆頭に力を見せつけた。目を引くのは日本選手にはないパワフルなフォアハンドの決定力。宮崎強化本部長は「日本は全部バックハンドでやろうとしているが、それだとパワー不足。もう少しフォアで決めきる育成をしないと」と指摘した。

       昨年ジュニア世代で日韓交流合宿を行った際、韓国の厳しいフットワーク練習などに驚いたという。「(日本より)20年遅れているが、逆にそれをいまだに貫いているのかと。男子にはパワーが必要なので、見習わないと」と“韓流”のフィジカル強化に日本男子の未来を見いだした。
      South Korea showed its power at this tournament, as An Jaehyun, 157th in the world, earned the bronze medal, defeating Tomokazu Harimoto along the way. What is eye-catching is the powerful forehand decisive power that Japanese players do not possess. Miyazaki of Development Headquarter pointed out that “Japan is trying to do everything with backhand, but that's not enough power. We need to train the forehand a little more."

      I was surprised at the harsh footwork drill in Korea when I was at the junior exchange camp last year. “It's 20 years behind Japan, but I wonder if they're still carrying it out. The boys need power, so we have to follow the example,” anticipating the "Korean wave" physical enhancement in the future of Japanese men.

      https://www.butterfly.co.jp/takurepo...il/011824.html
      Development Frontline 15 Japan-Korea Joint Development Camp 1



      In September, the Japan Table Tennis Association held a joint training camp for Korea's top-level athletes under 15 and under 12 in Korea. This time I would like to talk about what I felt at the joint camp.
      ...
      The joint training camp was held at the National Training Center in Korea, which was just a short drive from Seoul. This facility is positioned in the same way as the Ajinomoto National Training Center in Japan, and there are not only table tennis but all sports enhancement facilities. The table tennis ground of the Korea National Training Center is about 1.5 times as large as the Ajinomoto National Training Center. Japanese cadets and top players from Hopes sweated together with top Korean players of the same generation for about a week.
      At this joint camp, I strongly felt the difference in teaching methods between Japan and Korea.
      The difference was clearly apparent when the players worked on a drill called “after a backhand drive, turn around the backhand side for a forehand drive.”
      In Japan, when going around the backhand side, the common instruction is to drive a forehand without stepping on the left foot (for right-handed players). This is to quickly return to cover the empty forehand after hitting.
      But in this drill, the Japanese players went around without stepping on the left foot, but after a while, the Korean coach came to the Japanese players and began to teach eagerly with gestures. When I listened to it carefully, the guidance of the content was that "When you turn around, step on your left foot and put out as much power as possible on the ball."
      When I looked at the Korean players, they were going around stepping on their left feet and hitting powerful forehand drives. After the coaching of the Korean coach, the Japanese players also tried to forehand drive by stepping on their left feet, but they couldn't do it because they'd never done it before.
      Looking at this situation, it is very interesting to see there is such a difference in the teaching method between Japan and Korea, which are close to each other in the same Asian region and recognized as strong countries by the world.

      Next time, I would like to talk about the joint training camp between Japan and South Korea with consideration of the difference in the relationship between coaches and players in both countries.

      (Interview = Kenji Hirose)

      https://www.butterfly.co.jp/takurepo...il/012017.html
      Development Frontline 16 Japan-Korea Joint Development Camp 2



      ...
      First, let's talk about the merits and demerits of whether or not you step in your left foot when you go around and drive forehand.
      The advantage of forehand driving by stepping on the left foot is that it is easy to hit the ball. On the other hand, if the next ball is returned to the vacant fore side, the possibility that it will not reach is high.
      On the other hand, if you do not step on the left foot, you can not expect the power of the hit ball as much as you step on the left foot, but because the fore side is not big enough, it is an advantage that it is easy to respond quickly wherever the next ball is returned.
      Based on these merits and demerits, I think that the question of how to step in the left foot can be replaced by the argument “whether“ power ”or“ pitch speed ”has priority”.

      Thirty years ago, when I was an active player and representative of Japan, the theory was to step in the left foot as much as possible and get as much power as possible to hit the ball. However, Japan eventually lags behind China's front attack and Europe's two-handed attack, paying attention to the speed of the pitch rather than its power and trying to find a way out there. It can be said that the fact that the left foot is no longer depressed when turning around is a sign of Japanese willingness to emphasize the speed of the pitch. This model change worked, and now Japan is approaching the top of the world.
      South Korea, on the other hand, is now a powerful country like Japan, but it is the difference that the two countries have followed, as I witnessed the sight of the development of players with an emphasis on power just as I was active now. There was something to feel.

      Although this training camp revealed the difference in direction between Japan and Korea, I cannot say which teaching method is correct. In order to become stronger, "pitch speed" and "power" are equally important.
      Even in training camps, Japanese players were superior in the variety of skills and the speed of the pitch, but in terms of the power of the ball and physical (physical ability), Korean players surpassed, and the wins and losses were almost equal.
      Looking at the current results of seniors, girls are better than Korea, but the boys lost to Korea at the World Table Tennis 2018 Halmstad in May, so the total power of both countries can be seen almost equally Let's do it.

      The Korean practice menu that emphasizes power was a hard content that seems to be taken as “Shigeki” from the current Japanese trend, but I think the Korean culture is also having a great influence on it.
      In South Korea, Confucianism that respects the order of the upper and lower relations has permeated widely, and the relationship between the coach and the players seen at the training camp was inevitably high. I think that coaches can impose strict menus for the players because they have a straight line, and players try to meet the coach's demands.
      I felt that the hard practice of Korea I saw this time is effective not only in physical but also in mental training.
      Table tennis is a sport in which mental plays a major role in winning or losing. One of the ways to overcome the severe practice is to get the mentality of fighting without giving up and getting nervous even in severe situations.
      The Korean players of the past are generally persistent, and there are many players who demonstrate their power on the big stage, but I convinced that the reason is that mental is being trained in daily severe exercises.

      Japan's guidance is based on the idea of ​​enhancing competitiveness while respecting the individuality of the player, so it would be difficult to incorporate hard practice as in Korea. I think we should pursue rationality.
      Regardless of nationality, what style you aim for is up to you.
      I think that some Japanese players who participated in this training camp were attractive in their harsh Korean practice, where their physical and mental skills were improved. On the other hand, some Korean players would like to pursue the speed of the pitch rather than the power as in Japan.
      I think this Japan-Korea joint camp was very meaningful in that children could feel the different teaching methods and cultures with their skin.

      (Interview = Kenji Hirose)

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    5. Top | #24
      usualsuspect is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by lVegita View Post
      I am not sure this is the correct way of thinking.
      Being WR #5 doesn’t make his body fully developed.
      Sigh... technique has nothing to do with puberty.
      By your logic, prepubescent kids are just biologically unable to learn the correct FH stroke.
      If this is true, then why did so many professional players start training at the age of 4 or 5?

      Please go look at ML or FZD's FH stroke when they were 14 (or any other young players in China's provincial teams).
      The 30-year-old ML is still using the same FH stroke as the 14-year-old ML.

      Please stop making excuses for Harimoto. His FH stroke is flawed by the age of 16, this means he's been doing it wrong for 10+ years. It's not easy to break a decade-old habit. This has nothing to do with the fact that his still in puberty.

    6. Top | #25
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      can you share the whole video, Zeio?

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    8. Top | #26
      Takkyu_wa_inochi is offline
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      His FH is so flawed that he just won the Bulgarian Open

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    10. Top | #27
      yoass is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Takkyu_wa_inochi View Post
      His FH is so flawed that he just won the Bulgarian Open
      A FH so flawed that his opponent preferred to engage his BH. Terminally flawed.

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    12. Top | #28
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      Quote Originally Posted by Takkyu_wa_inochi View Post
      His FH is so flawed that he just won the Bulgarian Open
      looks like a good phrase, but come down to it who did he beat?

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    14. Top | #29
      Takkyu_wa_inochi is offline
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      He won against all his opponents
      That’s what you need to do to win whatever tournament

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    16. Top | #30
      thom is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Takkyu_wa_inochi View Post
      He won against all his opponents
      That’s what you need to do to win whatever tournament
      does not prove a strong FH against strong opponent if he didn't play any

    17. Top | #31
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      Quote Originally Posted by yoass View Post
      A FH so flawed that his opponent preferred to engage his BH. Terminally flawed.
      - I did see a lot of BH / BH rallies, but there was no evidence of he was avoiding HT's FH. ZZ used a lot of BH in this match and sent a lot of the returns to the middle of the table. HT chose to use his BH to rally those. How is sending the ball to the middle of the table avoiding HT's FH? How many FH winners did HT make (vs losers) in this match?

    18. Top | #32
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      Quote Originally Posted by thom View Post
      - I did see a lot of BH / BH rallies, but there was no evidence of he was avoiding HT's FH. ZZ used a lot of BH in this match and sent a lot of the returns to the middle of the table. HT chose to use his BH to rally those. How is sending the ball to the middle of the table avoiding HT's FH? How many FH winners did HT make (vs losers) in this match?
      Again, missing the point entirely. You mean that despite having been decoded by the CNT, Harimoto was still able to beat a CNT player who had every opportunity to take advantage of his weak forehand? How on earth did this happen?

      I can find some video of forehand points in that match if you really need it. Harimoto won more than his fair share.

      Perspective is important when discussing Harimoto's forehand.
      Cobra Kai TT Exponent - No mercy in this dojo, no matter your rating or the score. All spin, no power or footwork.

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    20. Top | #33
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      Quote Originally Posted by NextLevel View Post
      Again, missing the point entirely. You mean that despite having been decoded by the CNT, Harimoto was still able to beat a CNT player who had every opportunity to take advantage of his weak forehand? How on earth did this happen?

      I can find some video of forehand points in that match if you really need it. Harimoto won more than his fair share.

      Perspective is important when discussing Harimoto's forehand.
      NL, I think the topic is HT's FH and not whether he won or lost (so I think you are the one the missed the point) If winning proves he has a good FH then by his ranking the point is already made. Why was this thread started?
      Since you seem hot about this subject, please do give me the figures for won / loss counts on his FH - for this match, if you want to stay on point
      Last edited by thom; 4 Weeks Ago at 09:54 PM.

    21. Top | #34
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      Quote Originally Posted by thom View Post
      NL, I think the topic is HT's FH and not whether he won or lost (so I think you are the one the missed the point) If winning proves he has a good FH then by his ranking the point is already made. Why was this thread started?
      Since you seem hot about this subject, please do give me the figures for won / loss counts on his FH - for this match, if you want to stay on point
      The video from zeio is a bit old and was made in 2018. Some Chinese players/coaches believe Jun Mizutani and Timo Boll or Dima have bad forehands too so it is all opinions. The point is that if any of the aforementioned guys, and Harimoto can join them, has such a bad forehand, why so opponents not go there all the time? As the saying sometimes goes, a bad forehand is often still more valuable than a good backhand.

      It is important to keep context and remember that these are just opinions. His forehand is not so bad that he hasn't hit winners past the top players. The specific issues with his forehand are usually off the table rallying (which he generally doesn't do) and short service return (which he is not that bad at either).

      I never said won loss points. I said I can get you video of points he won with his forehand. I am not hot about it, but since the video is public materials you can decide how often he hit winners with his forehand and explain why if it was so bad, Zhao didn't just play into it.

    22. Top | #35
      thom is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by NextLevel View Post
      The video from zeio is a bit old and was made in 2018. Some Chinese players/coaches believe Jun Mizutani and Timo Boll or Dima have bad forehands too so it is all opinions. The point is that if any of the aforementioned guys, and Harimoto can join them, has such a bad forehand, why so opponents not go there all the time? As the saying sometimes goes, a bad forehand is often still more valuable than a good backhand.

      It is important to keep context and remember that these are just opinions. His forehand is not so bad that he hasn't hit winners past the top players. The specific issues with his forehand are usually off the table rallying (which he generally doesn't do) and short service return (which he is not that bad at either).

      I never said won loss points. I said I can get you video of points he won with his forehand. I am not hot about it, but since the video is public materials you can decide how often he hit winners with his forehand and explain why if it was so bad, Zhao didn't just play into it.
      I didn't watch Zeio's video and wasn't referring it.

      " Originally Posted by Takkyu_wa_inochiHis FH is so flawed that he just won the Bulgarian Open
      A FH so flawed that his opponent preferred to engage his BH. Terminally flawed."

      was what I was responding to. I think we are not talking about the same thing
      Last edited by thom; 4 Weeks Ago at 10:19 PM.

    23. Top | #36
      Richie is online now
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      Quote Originally Posted by thom View Post
      does not prove a strong FH against strong opponent if he didn't play any
      Marcos Freitas isn't a strong opponent? Zhao Zihao isn't strong? He has beaten almost all top chinese players before..
      pretty good achievements for not having a strong FH, wonder what will happen when it becomes strong

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    25. Top | #37
      NextLevel is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by thom View Post
      I didn't watch Zeio's video and wasn't referring it.

      " Originally Posted by Takkyu_wa_inochiHis FH is so flawed that he just won the Bulgarian Open
      A FH so flawed that his opponent preferred to engage his BH. Terminally flawed."

      was what I was responding to. I think we are not talking about the same thing


      The topic is the video. You asked why the topic/thread and the topic was driven by zeio's promise to translate a video. If you want to say that the topic isn't about the video, and is a general assessment of Harimoto's forehand, you can see that there isn't universal agreement in the subject. Hope I am clearer now.
      Last edited by NextLevel; 4 Weeks Ago at 10:41 PM.

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    27. Top | #38
      thom is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Richie View Post
      Marcos Freitas isn't a strong opponent? Zhao Zihao isn't strong? He has beaten almost all top chinese players before..
      pretty good achievements for not having a strong FH, wonder what will happen when it becomes strong
      I don't know if you are serious. He was WR 5 when this relatively weak FH thing came out. If winning proves he has a relatively strong FH why were there these discussions. I think he is still WR 6 so beating Freitas and Zhao proves anything???? that should have been 4 and 5 respectively
      Last edited by thom; 4 Weeks Ago at 10:31 PM.

    28. Top | #39
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      Quote Originally Posted by NextLevel View Post
      The topic is the video. You asked why the topic/thread and the topic was driven by zeio's promise to translate a video. If you want to say that the topic isn't about the video, and is a general assessment of Harimoto's forehand, you can see that there isn't universal agreement in the subject. Hope I am clearer now.
      I already stated we were not talking about the same thing so I do know why the confusion. I did not watch the video and read some of the post that came before. I was just going by the thread's subject.

    29. Top | #40
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      Quote Originally Posted by thom View Post
      I don't know if you are serious. He was WR 5 when this relatively weak FH thing came out. If winning proves he has a relatively strong FH why were there these discussions. I think he is still WR 6 so beating Freitas and Zhao proves anything???? that should have been 4 and 5 respectively
      The video in the topic was based on matches played in the middle of last year. He was WR 4/5 at the end of the year after winning the Grand Finals.

      He has been known for having a world class backhand even as a kid. People think of him as a backhand player and that factors into opinions on his forehand.
      Last edited by NextLevel; 4 Weeks Ago at 10:44 PM.

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