Short pips out curious

Sorry to burst your bubble, but there is nothing that will let you barbarically smash balls regardless of spin. Short pips do make smashing more efficient, but you will still have to anticipate and compensate for spin in every shot. You will also have to live with the fact that initiating attacks have less margin for error and what was once a simple loop against backspin will become your highest effort shot.

If you are serious about learning the nuances of short pips play, i recommend starting with a cheap (but capable) 802 or 802-40 in their 40 or 42 degree sponge versions. I recommend the hardest pips possible for forehand play. Do NOT get the flimsy 35 degree cheese cake of a sponge versions, those are slow and utterly useless.

For hard rubbers, max thickness especially on the forehand.

If you do eventually experiment with ESN pips, I recommend 1.8-2mm.

The idea is that hard pips feel more direct and you can benefit from the better spin capabilities and higher top end speed of thicker sponges. With Soft ESN pips, a max thickness sponge will feel mushy, lowering it to 1.8-2mm will ensure sufficient "bottoming out" so they feel crisp on mid-high impact shots.

BTW, forehand short pips have much different (and higher) demand on the blade than rubber. The modern trend of soft core high dwell "deep impact" are very bad for smashing. You want stiff, solid, direct, linear and "clean" feeling. Hard to describe the different impact sensations to someone trained in brush stroke but trust that the classic thick 7-ply woods are a good starting point for a reason.

Cheers,

Andre74 said:

Thanks for the advice Iasta. I was exaggerating but I would imagine the sensitivity to spin is much lower compared to pips in.. not trying to read spin would turn an already hi-risk strategy into a guaranteed disaster. Your recommendation is very useful, I definitely want a cheap and capable rubber to try it out. What sponge thickness would you recommend?

Click to expand...

I also wanted to try pips on my FH for a long time because I think it would be interesting and could suite somehow to my closer to the table playing style. But somehow resisted, maybe was afraid not to ruin my FH which is quite good IMHO as it is... So keep updated how it goes!

Andre74 said:

My natural FH is quite flat but I’ve been working towards improving my topspin as I want to improve consistency. However, If I wanted to try these now more fashionable short pips, what would be a decent rubber to start with?

Click to expand...

Well props to you for realizing your style of game. That might sound simple but there are several hitters at our club who hit but don't really spin it all that well. Anyways, for these type of players, I think SPs could at least be something to explore.

I'd just start out with 802 or 802-40 probably max thickness you can get. They're cheap so you're only out your time and the little price tag if it doesn't work out.

I think you'll find you like the control they offer. How it's more forgiving and how you can place the ball dang near anywhere you want.

Couple of things to watch out for.
- If you play well off the table, then this isn't for you.... Unless you're a chopper which you're not. SPs best when up at the table.
- If you're getting lobbed on and find smashing lobs with SPs (I always did), consider twiddling to the inverted side on lobs. IDK.
- Pick your shots. Don't go crazy and think "i have short pips now. I'll just hit through everything & smash." You need the ball to be a certain height or higher. Lower balls you'll have to play a pinch more cautiously & tactically. You can't just spin loop it on the table.

729 - 802 short pips is more a classic short pips.

729 - 802-40 is suppose to be the spinnier version. I suppose I'd select that.

Personally speaking, i don't think there's much of a difference and if given a blind hit test I would struggle to be able to tell the difference. But considering you're coming from inverted, 802-40 might be the slightly safer choice.

(IMO) YSE is pretty slow and flexible, the 802 will feel pretty dead on it, not exactly optimal.

But if you are just looking to try something out, can't hurt. Try it and see if you like the style before commiting to a new blade. 802 is cheap anyways.

Victas (102?) is a good rubber. I'm using it on my primary blade now. But test out the style first.

Try something cheap like ritx 802-40 first

Take it from other people's experience: your skill will skyrocket when you stop changing equipment.

You can always restart gear optimization when you get the basic skill down pat.

Oh and SP is not a less technical rubber.

I think, and this wasn't my idea as I read once Liu Guoliang say basically the same thing, that short pips simply takes much longer to learn inverted.

I'm not surprised to hear you've played with it and didn't like it. I think that's normal. I think you'd have to give it bare minimum a legit 2 months first to begin to formula a final evaluation. And honestly at least a year before you might be really pretty good with them.

SPs is tactical but doesn't give you the wow moments inverted does IMO. There won't be any flashy loops. It's placement, picking your shots and hopefully getting people to struggle on your flat hits as they're used to incoming spin among other things.

Post Edit:
_____________

I had to do some digging as I thought I had a match somewhere back when I use to play SPs. But here's a match I played.

Now this style was weird back in the day. It was Short Pips & long pips and I don't play this style anymore. I play dual inverted now.

Anyways, it's not flashy. It's not particularly impressive. It was about tactical play and trying to make the opponent feel off balance.

.... Even now when I see some of my FH strokes with the Short Pips I think it looks more geared towards inverted and wasn't flat for forward enough. Oh well.

It's better if you stop.

But people are curious, sometimes you have to feel something for yourself to convince yourself that it's not right haha.

Reading below would be like opening the Pandora's Box:

If you want something to push you to the right direction; think about why Hinoki blades might be good for you.

Search for "wood characteristics", "blade stiffness and frequency", and some older posts by JRSDallas on Mytabletennis. I can forward you some of my "disorganized" correspondence with a blade-maker/engineer...after that if you want.

After lots of reading, a few dozen blade/rubber tests, you will realize that there might be something "better" than Hinoki.

And after a few dozen more blades, you will realize there is no such thing as perfection.

All the while, your skills are improving concurrently.

By that time, you will find that you play just as well with your Sweden Extra as you do with some 1000 year old certified organic Kiso Hinoki.

Then you ask yourself what to do with all the plywood you know you will never play with.

I just want to say, thanks for the contributions on this thread which are really good and interesting. Pure curiosity, SP are still alien to me apart from the odd try and I don't quite plan to switch, but still.


Edit: based on the video I agree inverted was probably the way to go, on some strokes it works well but on quite a few the pips seem a hindrance (reaching out and ball taken late, still brushing quite a bit and, as you said, could use more forward momentum but that may be true with inverted as well). Still a good surprise factor I imagine, you can't have faced too many opponents with setups similar to yours!

I think it is nothing wrong with trying short pimples. As long as you have a good reason. More proably if you change equipment that are from the same group. I mean try different inverted that are proably more or less the same.

But i Do feel it is a bit naive and almost arrogant that you try it once and make a conclusion from that. Need to give it a couple of months.

I feel that many Times people change to short pimples and have No clue how to use it, and keep playing like it is an inverted. So if you try pimples you really need to adjust the stroke. It would be fun to see a video of you using it and Maybe We can help you out.

So if you have a good reason for trying short pimple give it a couple of months ns make sure you know what you are doing. You migth kap think about What kind of short pimple and blade you use. More different here compared ro inverted in my opinion. Good luck!