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    1. Top | #1
      vik2000 is offline
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      Cool What are some of the very fast set-up you have tried with solid control?

      I'm curious about the experiences of those (particularly loopers) who have used blades like Viscaria or other carbon (outer or inner) blades in the past, but have moved onto an even faster set-up while still maintaining decent control. What sort of blades have you tried? I know there are some very fast blades like Primorac / Schlager Carbon but these blades to me are highly stiff and are not suitable for loopers. I recently had a couple of hits with Butterfly Amultart ZL Carbon and did not find it particularly fast, contrary to the ratings on revspin (obviously I don't entirely trust these ratings). Also, a blade like Mizutani Jun Super ZLC has a limba outer and it seems to me like it is one of those blades that is plenty fast but still has some good control.

      Obviously, the set-up is very much rubber dependent as well, so feel free to share your favorite fast set-up you have tried in the past and currently.

    2. Top | #2
      guni4you is online now
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      Donic ovtcharov carbospeed with tenergy 05.You will love it Vik.

    3. Top | #3
      Konrad Bak is offline
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      Mxs plus 290 Carbonado

    4. Top | #4
      Tinykin is offline
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      The ultimate speed demon is the Darker speed 90 with T05H. Control is good once you understand the technique, however, the spinny looping game is not easy. The bat is more a drive loop type. Using Globe 999 adds a lot more control for the slow loop game.
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      JHB (4 Weeks Ago)

    6. Top | #5
      JHB is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tinykin View Post
      The ultimate speed demon is the Darker speed 90 with T05H. Control is good once you understand the technique, however, the spinny looping game is not easy. The bat is more a drive loop type. Using Globe 999 adds a lot more control for the slow loop game.
      Strange that Tinykin should mention this legend. I have coveted a Darker Speed 90 for about the last three years, but now that I can finally afford one and they are available to purchase once again I am holding back. Why ? Because I have read about the actual or alleged fragility of the blade and I am just too frightened of breaking the damned thing after throwing 200+ GBP at it !

      Is there any hope for me ?
      Last edited by JHB; 4 Weeks Ago at 12:40 PM.
      Second/spare blade: Joola K7 with Tibhar Evolution MX-P (forehand) and MX-S (backhand)

    7. Top | #6
      langel is offline
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      Master TTD Member Country: Bulgaria

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      I believe that all mentioned - Amultart ZLS, Darker Speed 90, Donic Ovtcharov Carbospeed and many others are basically capable of equal speed, but the feeling and actual performance will vary on rubber choice, blade +rubber synergy and dynamic linearity, the players actual motor dynamics linearity and his subjective feel about all that.
      For me Xiom Vega Tour blade + Xiom Omega 7 Asia rubbers is a pretty fast setup and faster than T05 + the other mentioned blades. The Vega Tour blade has a much better control with equal to the other mentioned speed. The loop is good, though the arc is lower. Vega Tour blade + Omega 5 Asia rubbers will have similar performance as with T05, but with better overall control and especially over the table.

    8. Top | #7
      Tinykin is offline
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      One-ply fragility is very exaggerated

      Go ahead and try the new versions if you can afford.
      I have had 2x one-ply blades (a hinoki and a weird old wood) that have split, neither were by Darker. They were easily fixed by a woodworker friend of mine.
      On the other hand, I have had about 6 regular blades that have either broken at the neck (Stiga and DHS WLQ) and other stuff that have made the bat unplayable. One of my Viscarias developed a rattle which was caused (I think) by the plys separating. the same also happened to 2x Xiom blades. Again they were only fit for the bin.
      However, I have bought one of the new Darker Speed 90 from TT11. They do play different from the old version that is my regular blade.Maybe it's because they have made the new version in a slightly bigger size. I've put it away for the time being.


      Quote Originally Posted by JHB View Post
      Strange that Tinykin should mention this legend. I have coveted a Darker Speed 90 for about the last three years, but now that I can finally afford one and they are available to purchase once again I am holding back. Why ? Because I have read about the actual or alleged fragility of the blade and I am just too frightened of breaking the damned thing after throwing 200+ GBP at it !

      Is there any hope for me ?

    9. Top | #8
      goodhand is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by JHB View Post
      Strange that Tinykin should mention this legend. I have coveted a Darker Speed 90 for about the last three years, but now that I can finally afford one and they are available to purchase once again I am holding back. Why ? Because I have read about the actual or alleged fragility of the blade and I am just too frightened of breaking the damned thing after throwing 200+ GBP at it !

      Is there any hope for me ?
      On revspin.net, there is a review of a blade called Moby by a brand called PP, which is made in Taiwan. It is a one-ply genuine 350 year old Kiso Hinoki blade which the reviewer claimed is just as good, if not better, than Darker Speed 90. It costs only around US$110. Check it out yourself. Unfortunately, I haven't posted enough at this forum to gain the privilege to post web link (of the PP shop).

    10. Top | #9
      lasta is online now
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      I have a T1S that I occasionally use to give some spring to very hard Chinese rubbers. Very stiff (2187hz) and springy. But I've come to realize that stiffness stops adding speed at a certain point.

      When smashing lobs, even the T1S start plateauing. The soft Kiri core "buckles" when hit full force and stops returning all the energy to your shot.

      If you compare it to the unassuming DHS 08 (and equivalent super thick basswood blades), T1S is much bouncier on first impression, but the 08 has never bottomed out/plateaued on me. It will keep up not matter how hard you hit.

    11. Top | #10
      Baal is offline
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      Control of what?

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    13. Top | #11
      Dr Evil is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Baal View Post
      Control of what?
      "Control" in this context probably means "forgiveness" of mistakes in timing or contact, and maybe "predictability" of trajectory. It could also mean "precision"of placement, although precision and forgiveness don't necessarily go together so it does make sense to specify which one you mean.

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    15. Top | #12
      goodhand is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Baal View Post
      Control of what?
      Definition of "control" per Revspin.net: Control refers to how easy it is to control the ball using this equipment. Equipment that is too fast or too spinny reduces control though equipment that is too slow or not spinny may also decrease control.

    16. Top | #13
      vik2000 is offline
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      I'm not sure what Baal is struggling to understand given all the background I provided. I mean, his question would make more sense if this thread started with literally one sentence "Hey, what are some of the set up with good control?"

      All of the replies I've gotten so far had no issue understanding what I meant.

    17. Top | #14
      wappak is offline
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      i play traditional penhold after using many blades and some sp rubbers, the most balance set i used is a xiom hinoki s7 cpen with dms firestorm sp soft 1.8. it suits my play style, i still go back to this two even trying to ej, i may settle now to his set up after being frustraded by so many blades and rubbers

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      Last edited by wappak; 4 Weeks Ago at 07:29 AM.

    18. Top | #15
      langel is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Dr Evil View Post
      "Control" in this context probably means "forgiveness" of mistakes in timing or contact, and maybe "predictability" of trajectory. It could also mean "precision"of placement, although precision and forgiveness don't necessarily go together so it does make sense to specify which one you mean.
      Thats good.

      I think that "control in terms of forgiveness" can refer to All/Off- setups only and stand for "easy".
      In Off/Off++ setups control means precision and stand for "experience, technique, level".
      Predictability is a personal subjective feeling and depends on the setup quality and consistency. If proper on both sides, the palyer will always know the result at the very moment of contact with the ball and will mark it as "yes" or "no" even before the ball leaves the bat.

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    20. Top | #16
      vik2000 is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by langel View Post
      Thats good.

      I think that "control in terms of forgiveness" can refer to All/Off- setups only and stand for "easy".
      In Off/Off++ setups control means precision and stand for "experience, technique, level".
      Predictability is a personal subjective feeling and depends on the setup quality and consistency. If proper on both sides, the palyer will always know the result at the very moment of contact with the ball and will mark it as "yes" or "no" even before the ball leaves the bat.
      There will always be some level of variance between the subjective interpretation of "control" by each player. In general, most people can agree on the fact that the faster your blade is (generally means stiffer), the less likely you can control it (more difficult to loop due to less dwell time as well as short placement). To some people who are more block oriented, this might actually be better.

      I'm totally fine leaving the definition of "control" up to your interpretation because I've provided sufficient background. You can share whatever experience you have based on whatever your interpretation of control is, and I will exercise judgement when reading your comments. There hasn't been a single comment that wasn't helpful and I don't see people really having any issues making sense of my questions.

      The bigger question is, Baal, now that you have some understanding of the wording "control" used here, do you have anything to offer?

    21. Top | #17
      lasta is online now
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      Quote Originally Posted by vik2000 View Post
      There will always be some level of variance between the subjective interpretation of "control" by each player. In general, most people can agree on the fact that the faster your blade is (generally means stiffer), the less likely you can control it (more difficult to loop due to less dwell time as well as short placement). To some people who are more block oriented, this might actually be better.

      I'm totally fine leaving the definition of "control" up to your interpretation because I've provided sufficient background. You can share whatever experience you have based on whatever your interpretation of control is, and I will exercise judgement when reading your comments. There hasn't been a single comment that wasn't helpful and I don't see people really having any issues making sense of my questions.

      The bigger question is, Baal, now that you have some understanding of the wording "control" used here, do you have anything to offer?
      With your attitude, I don't think Baal is interested in offering you anything.

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    23. Top | #18
      vik2000 is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by lasta View Post
      With your attitude, I don't think Baal is interested in offering you anything.
      Did you actually think there was anything to be offered in the first place? I mean, those people who have experiences to share have already shared without any struggles understanding the question. Pretty happy with all the responses which provided sufficient information.

    24. Top | #19
      Gwenved is offline
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      I used a Primorac Carbon with 2 T64fx 2.1, found it perfect when I was in good shape but hard when I wasn't fine...due to this I was seeking something a bit different to have a bit more "control" so I bought the complete Garaydia family in st to test with the same rubbers, just to see how the blade change the set up. ALC is not what I'm searching, ZLC didn't offers me the small extra in control I was looking for than the T5000 was too fast. Actually playing with the Garaydia ZLC with 2 Dignics 05 to have more spin than T64fx, quite different as what I usually play so awaiting the new dignics 64 or 80 to see if it goes better with my style. Finally it seems the ZLC fits with me but with another rubbers than Dignics 05. Wait and see.....

    25. Top | #20
      Baal is offline
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      A very slow blade can be great for return of serve (andxserve too) and yet make you erratic when you try to spin from mid distance. A very flexible blade may be a little dodgy for blocking from close in. There is more too, but this is the kind if thing I was getting at. All equipment choices, blade and rubber, entail MULTIPLE trade-offs (which usually require adjustments in technique)..

      So hence my question. The assumption that a single change will make you able to better execute ALL your plans seems to me to be unwarranted. Hence that Revspin definition is not very useful if you try to use it to discus equipment rather than something a player can do.

      For me a Viscaria with a very linear rubber seems pretty optimal but would be crap for a defender.
      Last edited by Baal; 4 Weeks Ago at 02:12 AM.

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