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    1. Top | #61
      NextLevel is online now
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lula View Post
      I think this thread started out well. Everyone that contribute with knowledge and try to help people are doing something good. Do not matter If a Guy is a coach in real life or a good player as long as the information is good and somewhat correct.

      I think it is wise for everyone to try to sort out information aswell.
      I think you have been around too much good table tennis to understand how much it matters to understand how much these tutorials can harm people who do not know where the teacher is coming from.
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    2. Top | #62
      UpSideDownCarl is online now
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      Quote Originally Posted by NextLevel View Post
      I think you have been around too much good table tennis to understand how much it matters to understand how much these tutorials can harm people who do not know where the teacher is coming from.
      There is more in this statement than meets the eye.
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    3. Top | #63
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      EmRatThich seems to be a controversial video producer. Does anyone know who he is?

      I used to think that was his name but he explains that it means "I really like/love" as in I really like table tennis. I enjoy his videos and love it when he draws on a pad and his young daughter "helps". He seems a really nice chap who enjoys teaching table tennis.

      However- his view that the Chinese system is always best is annoying. I know that the top players are all Chinese but surely that is because they have a massive numbers of players and pick young children and train them for hours every day. Perhaps the fact that some players from Europe and other areas can reach the top 50 and yet probably have had a more normal childhood shows that our coaching is possibly better?

    4. Top | #64
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      Quote Originally Posted by Silver smasher View Post
      EmRatThich seems to be a controversial video producer. Does anyone know who he is?

      I used to think that was his name but he explains that it means "I really like/love" as in I really like table tennis. I enjoy his videos and love it when he draws on a pad and his young daughter "helps". He seems a really nice chap who enjoys teaching table tennis.

      However- his view that the Chinese system is always best is annoying. I know that the top players are all Chinese but surely that is because they have a massive numbers of players and pick young children and train them for hours every day. Perhaps the fact that some players from Europe and other areas can reach the top 50 and yet probably have had a more normal childhood shows that our coaching is possibly better?
      I used to like and watch quite some ERT vid, but at some point got annoyed with the China vs west dichotomy. Why should we westerners still buy into that sh*** there is something so deeper and different in the Eastern culture and philosophy? Sure it's very ancient, but hence it also accrued as many superstitions and false beliefs as any other.

      Just listen to this podcast with Dan and Richard Prause where he went to China to discover the secret of their success in TT.. Only to see it's just friggin' hard, hard work. No magic tiger balm or philosphy.

      Back to topic:
      Two smaller German channels I've come to appreciate are smarTT and Tischtennis Tipps.


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      Last edited by phorkyas; 6 Days Ago at 02:28 PM.

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    6. Top | #65
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      To say that western players have wrong technique is kinda stupid.

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    8. Top | #66
      Kuba Hajto is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by yogi_bear View Post
      To say that western players have wrong technique is kinda stupid.
      If there is more than one style it is in human nature to favor one of them and say other are worthless. People don't like concept of several equally viable options, because then they would have no efing idea which one to pursue. That's exactly why there are Apple fanboys or in case of table tennis Butterfly fanboys etc. That's also why there will be people who claim that only Chinese style is viable etc. We all know that truth is a little bit more complex as we know. Same as there is no best piece of equipment there should not be one single perfect style. It's all personal. I think that playing style is determined by your capabilities and one should persue whatever works for him or her.

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    10. Top | #67
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      "Chinese style". Because we all know that ML, FZD, and XX play the same style? Really???

      This is the kind of thing that is absurd about all this. Those three players are entirely different. Maybe the only thing is they all use hard tacky rubber on their forehand.

      What they mainly have in common is they were trained hard from very young age by good coaches and selected as the best of a bunch of talented players every few years from all over a country of 1.6 billion people in which TT is the national sport; a country where kids with TT talent are identified in elementary schools and with teams and leagues in every town and city.

      And the CNT is a constant ongoing thing with infrastructure no other country can match.

      Did Werner Schlager have a "Chinese loop"? If not why not?
      Last edited by Baal; 5 Days Ago at 03:29 PM.

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    12. Top | #68
      Baal is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by NextLevel View Post
      So, what exactly did that Swedish coach say...
      Your backswing should be the same speed as the ball coming at you.

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    14. Top | #69
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      I'd say once you have the basic mechanics down, Brett Clarke's videos are a great resource for understanding how you add more spin and power to your game. I didn't really understand the whip component of adding spin until I watched his videos.

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    16. Top | #70
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      Quote Originally Posted by NextLevel View Post
      I think you have been around too much good table tennis to understand how much it matters to understand how much these tutorials can harm people who do not know where the teacher is coming from.
      You are understating the amount of harm that poorly chosen words or misunderstanding can cause even when the coach is there live, well-known, respected, highly competent, and trying their best. ALL coaching is buyer beware, not only online.

    17. Top | #71
      NextLevel is online now
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      Quote Originally Posted by Brs View Post
      You are understating the amount of harm that poorly chosen words or misunderstanding can cause even when the coach is there live, well-known, respected, highly competent, and trying their best. ALL coaching is buyer beware, not only online.
      Buyer beware is true, but that a live respected and highly competent coach can damage someone's game is the subjectivity of table tennis because I have never seen it happen. Even good coaches disagree on how to develop a player all the time. But good coaches tend to get improved output from their students. Words are just words and do not demonstrate competence. Otherwise, you have to explain to me the kind of harm you are talking about as a lot of TT is not really about words but about getting a student to produce a better output. This is what separates dealing with a coach in person with someone just parroting truisms or advice on the internet.
      Last edited by NextLevel; 5 Days Ago at 02:06 AM.

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    19. Top | #72
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      I remeber ERT compared in his video footage of amateur european players vid vs chinese professional players a talks about chinese method.If you look at tom lodziak channel you see Paul drinkhall has everything -power from the ground and chinese etc.also nonsens is to put hard rubber on slow wood blade.I tried -it is very dead feeling,ball slipped many times down and I had to put a lot of energy to make a good shot.Actualy if you are not professional dont put hard chinese rubber on slow blade.Actually as some vietnamese guy said he stole coupleof his videos from him and put "knowledge" from vietnamese forum.There was thread here about it.Korean channels and Ma long -vietnamese channel are much better.
      Last edited by vik; 4 Days Ago at 03:46 PM.

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    21. Top | #73
      UpSideDownCarl is online now
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      Part of the thing about a good coach, in person is: if the coach is good, he will see how much of the info your mind and body understood. If they are reading things, when it seems you misunderstood, they can try to explain differently.

      Not all "coaches" are good at this. But good ones should be. I think of the process of teaching as the problem solving that helps the person understand the issue at hand for him/herself. Videos cannot adjust the info to your aptitude and learning skills. A good coach, in person, should be able to do that to a decent extent.

      But still, I would say all info needs to be tested.
      Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 4 Days Ago at 09:12 PM.

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    23. Top | #74
      TableTennisTom is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl View Post
      Part of the thing about a good coach, in person is: if the coach is good, he will see how much of the info your mind and body understood. If they are reading things, when it seems you misunderstood, they can try to explain differently.

      Not all "coaches" are good at this. But good ones should be. I think of the process of teaching as the problem solving that helps the person understand the issue at hand for him/herself. Videos cannot adjust the info to your aptitude and learning skills. A good coach, in person, should be able to do that to a decent extent.

      But still, I would say all info needs to be tested.
      100% agree with this. I spend a lot of time coaching beginners, intermediate players and some advanced. Through a long process of trial and error (10+ years), I have refined the way I teach various aspects of table tennis so the messages resonate with most players I coach. I often turn these into videos, when I feel confident enough it may actually help someone watching on YouTube.

      But there are always players where it doesn't seem to work. My challenge is then to find another way of explaining how to do something. John Wooden (basketball coach) had a maxim which always sticks with me... "You haven't taught until they have learnt". It can sometimes be frustrating as a coach when a player just doesn't seem to be getting it. And it's very easy to slip into a mindset where you blame the player for not being competent enough. But this is not helpful. As a coach you have to always ask yourself difficult questions. Is it the player who is at blame, or do I need to change my approach to get my message across?

      Sorry a bit of a tangent from the original discussion! But thanks to everyone who said they found my YouTube videos useful. This makes me happy and keeps me motivated! Thank you.

      Tom Lodziak
      Last edited by TableTennisTom; 4 Days Ago at 10:25 PM.

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    25. Top | #75
      NextLevel is online now
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      Quote Originally Posted by TableTennisTom View Post
      100% agree with this. I spend a lot of time coaching beginners, intermediate players and some advanced. Through a long process of trial and error (10+ years), I have refined the way I teach various aspects of table tennis so the messages resonate with most players I coach. I often turn these into videos, when I feel confident enough it may actually help someone watching on YouTube.

      But there are always players where it doesn't seem to work. My challenge is then to find another way of explaining how to do something. John Wooden (basketball coach) had a maxim which always sticks with me... "You haven't taught until they have learnt". It can sometimes be frustrating as a coach when a player just doesn't seem to be getting it. And it's very easy to slip into a mindset where you blame the player for not being competent enough. But this is not helpful. As a coach you have to always ask yourself difficult questions. Is it the player who is at blame, or do I need to change my approach to get my message across?

      Sorry a bit of a tangent from the original discussion! But thanks to everyone who said they found my YouTube videos useful. This makes me happy and keeps me motivated! Thank you.

      Tom Lodziak
      Yes! Changing behaviors is often really hard. When you deal with someone who hasn't coached anyone seriously, they talk about technique without taking the process of change seriously and often don't talk about the process at all. You clearly do talk about the process and appreciate the difficulties of change and the limitations of amateurs, and your efforts are appreciated.

      I watched your video where you got advice from Rade Markovic and I wish people understood how hard TT was when making comments about the video (unfortunately youtube is like that). I was really inspired by the exercises that Rade recommended to you and have no clue whether they will work for me, but will try some jump rope some day or something else for the legs. Thanks again for all the hard work you do.

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    27. Top | #76
      Der_Echte is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by TableTennisTom
      100% agree with this. I spend a lot of time coaching beginners, intermediate players and some advanced. Through a long process of trial and error (10+ years), I have refined the way I teach various aspects of table tennis so the messages resonate with most players I coach. I often turn these into videos, when I feel confident enough it may actually help someone watching on YouTube.

      But there are always players where it doesn't seem to work. My challenge is then to find another way of explaining how to do something. John Wooden (basketball coach) had a maxim which always sticks with me... "You haven't taught until they have learnt". It can sometimes be frustrating as a coach when a player just doesn't seem to be getting it. And it's very easy to slip into a mindset where you blame the player for not being competent enough. But this is not helpful. As a coach you have to always ask yourself difficult questions. Is it the player who is at blame, or do I need to change my approach to get my message across?

      Sorry a bit of a tangent from the original discussion! But thanks to everyone who said they found my YouTube videos useful. This makes me happy and keeps me motivated! Thank you.

      Tom Lodziak
      Tom, if you continue to feel bad about discussion of such an important aspect of coaching like this I will be gunning for you on my next trip to merry England. This is valuable stuff even if you interrupted Dan and the Queen making a declaration of the national state of TT.

      These are the hard questions a leader must ask.
      Last edited by Der_Echte; 4 Days Ago at 12:58 AM.
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    29. Top | #77
      TableTennisTom is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by NextLevel View Post
      I watched your video where you got advice from Rade Markovic and I wish people understood how hard TT was when making comments about the video (unfortunately youtube is like that). I was really inspired by the exercises that Rade recommended to you and have no clue whether they will work for me, but will try some jump rope some day or something else for the legs. Thanks again for all the hard work you do.
      The additional work I'm doing on my legs is helping. I feel lighter and seem to be able to make quicker movements. I'm sure for most observers, my legs footwork still looks pretty hopeless! But if I can improve my footwork by even 10%-20%, then it makes a big difference to me. I have to get the balance right between working out and rest. I'm 40 this year, and some days my knees really ache if I push it too much! Getting old!

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    31. Top | #78
      TableTennisTom is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Der_Echte View Post
      Tom, if you continue to feel bad about discussion of such an important aspect of coaching like this I will be gunning for you on my next trip to merry England. This is valuable stuff even if you interrupted Dan and the Queen making a declaration of the national state of TT.

      These are the hard questions a leader must ask.
      If you are ever in the Cambridge area, please do let me know. We can have some table tennis fun together!

    32. Top | #79
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    33. Top | #80
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      it seems the guy from Lili has renamed his channel

      there is more contents here, including some with pro players

      https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCO5...yk72fkUs-l6THw

      I especially recommend the videos for serves

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