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Poll: Who is Greatest?

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    #61
    Sorry , have to disagree with a lot of this, a champion is just what it says, champion....champion of the world is the ultimate.the question is ma long or waldner, well waldner got to 3 world finals in a row. ma has not reached one..the best players are the one who do it on the biggest event, period.

    Ive seen ma long at the worlds and he just hesitated a fraction in the semi and lost when he should have won, he thrashed everyone at the english pro tour,,, less pressure.I agree he is just awesome and plays some tt not seen before, but at the very top of sport its down to bottle...zhang defo has it, wangli chin had it. in tennis the big players do it at the big events, murry has nt won yet , has he got,, hope you get my drift man..
    waldner won so many games at deuce....Is lee westwood comparable with padraig harrington,, not for me ,, a great player but not won a major... harrington not been no1 but won 3 majors..I suppose its subjective, you may think no 1 is better than winning a major title..not for me.Surley been German underlines this with your football tam, Very rarely no 1 in the world but always ,always do well in worlds and euros,,, bottle...
    saying all that ma is only 23 , waldner did not win worlds till 24 so plenty of time....but he has to win big to be comparable.. sorry man..

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    #62
    Quote Originally Posted by harrybelafonte
    Sorry , have to disagree with a lot of this, a champion is just what it says, champion....champion of the world is the ultimate.the question is ma long or waldner, well waldner got to 3 world finals in a row. ma has not reached one..the best players are the one who do it on the biggest event, period.

    Ive seen ma long at the worlds and he just hesitated a fraction in the semi and lost when he should have won, he thrashed everyone at the english pro tour,,, less pressure.I agree he is just awesome and plays some tt not seen before, but at the very top of sport its down to bottle...zhang defo has it, wangli chin had it. in tennis the big players do it at the big events, murry has nt won yet , has he got,, hope you get my drift man..
    waldner won so many games at deuce....Is lee westwood comparable with padraig harrington,, not for me ,, a great player but not won a major... harrington not been no1 but won 3 majors..I suppose its subjective, you may think no 1 is better than winning a major title..not for me.Surley been German underlines this with your football tam, Very rarely no 1 in the world but always ,always do well in worlds and euros,,, bottle...
    saying all that ma is only 23 , waldner did not win worlds till 24 so plenty of time....but he has to win big to be comparable.. sorry man..
    i dont care about german football its a stupid sport :P
    but you want to tell me, that a guy who won 1x wttc is greater than a guy who maybe won 10x ittf pro tour. thats not true. not for me :P there are the same players. same system. just the name of the tournement changes. so its 1 against 10 and then for me the better player is the guy who had won 10 tournements and not 1.

    even if you try to teach me table tennis and dont know, how to write "wang liqin" ... come on

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    #63
    @Plasma

    It would really depend on the type of tournament. The motivation and spirit of players is always top notch at the WTTC. For Ma Long, the motivation is always top notch, but not for all players. It even differs per Pro Tour. For example the Qatar or German or China Opens are more prestigious than the ones that Ma Long won together (apart from the Grand Finals). WTTC and Olympics is where you handle the big nerves, it is the opportunity that only comes once every so much time, while Pro Tours come all year. It really is a big difference. Ma Long only started to perform good when he blew the WTTC and lost the China Open final. You can't draw 100% conclusions from that, but I think there is a link between those things. Fact is that Ma Long still has to prove himself on the real deal stages.

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    #64
    Waldner won 2 world titles, he won in 89 I was there in Dortmund,Germany.. was awesome,he won in 97 I was there, he did not drop 1 end...not 1 end my son... 7 x 3-0 victories...
    he lost in the team event to Samsonov 21-6 21-7 ,he played him in the final of the singles, 3-0 ,,
    sorry you have to peak my boy for the big ones....
    and to say football is a stupid sport.. eh!..
    I was at the first pro tour in northampton England,not a bad event,but you cant compare pro tour events to world or olympic events.Half the time 50% of players are not there..
    .At the worlds, every one is tring to peak for this,ie playing at their prime....so it is the hardest to win....still everyone is entitled to their opinion.

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    #65
    well said wiwa ,thats my conclusion see ing ma at first hand...He was a little unlucky in the worlds, but he had the match in his hands and let it slip,,, maybe he chokes on the biggest stage,, we shall see, I hope he wins one tho ...


    Quote Originally Posted by WiWa
    @Plasma

    It would really depend on the type of tournament. The motivation and spirit of players is always top notch at the WTTC. For Ma Long, the motivation is always top notch, but not for all players. It even differs per Pro Tour. For example the Qatar or German or China Opens are more prestigious than the ones that Ma Long won together (apart from the Grand Finals). WTTC and Olympics is where you handle the big nerves, it is the opportunity that only comes once every so much time, while Pro Tours come all year. It really is a big difference. Ma Long only started to perform good when he blew the WTTC and lost the China Open final. You can't draw 100% conclusions from that, but I think there is a link between those things. Fact is that Ma Long still has to prove himself on the real deal stages.

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    #66
    Quote Originally Posted by PlasmaLight
    i dont care about german football its a stupid sport :P
    but you want to tell me, that a guy who won 1x wttc is greater than a guy who maybe won 10x ittf pro tour. thats not true. not for me :P there are the same players. same system. just the name of the tournement changes. so its 1 against 10 and then for me the better player is the guy who had won 10 tournements and not 1.

    even if you try to teach me table tennis and dont know, how to write "wang liqin" ... come on
    Okay, sorry, but I have to agree with Harry. A player that has won several World championships and won the Olympics IS greater than a player that has won a gazillion of pro tours. Why? It's the thing about the name. When it is called Olympics, ALL the best are in. When it is called the worlds, ALL the best are in. Everyone trains theirs ass off to win that.

    "Nobody" trains like hell only to win a pro tour

    Waldner is for now the greatest of all times, but Ma Long is on his way to get there. But as Harry said, he's got to win something big before we can compare them to each other. ATM Ma Long is not even close to the results of Waldner.

    TIME WILL SHOW
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    #67
    I'm intruiged at the poll result so far to be honest. 25-23 in Waldner's favour. I thought there would be more Waldner supporters around, good though I knew this topic had the potential to be fairly even sided even if I personally believe Waldner is a far greater player AT PRESENT.
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    #68
    Quote Originally Posted by PingPongPom
    I'm intruiged at the poll result so far to be honest. 25-23 in Waldner's favour. I thought there would be more Waldner supporters around, good though I knew this topic had the potential to be fairly even sided even if I personally believe Waldner is a far greater player AT PRESENT.
    This forum has a huge amount of Ma Long fans They vote him blind in every poll, like I do with Zhang Jike hehe.

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    #69
    Interesting, mytabletennis.net were much less accomodating. When I posted this most of the people said I was an idiot and the thread was a waste of time LOL See why I love ttdaily :P
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    #70
    walder is greater but if ma long and waldner both met at thier primes ma long would eat him for breakfast

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    #71
    Quote Originally Posted by WiWa
    @Plasma

    It would really depend on the type of tournament. The motivation and spirit of players is always top notch at the WTTC. For Ma Long, the motivation is always top notch, but not for all players. It even differs per Pro Tour. For example the Qatar or German or China Opens are more prestigious than the ones that Ma Long won together (apart from the Grand Finals). WTTC and Olympics is where you handle the big nerves, it is the opportunity that only comes once every so much time, while Pro Tours come all year. It really is a big difference. Ma Long only started to perform good when he blew the WTTC and lost the China Open final. You can't draw 100% conclusions from that, but I think there is a link between those things. Fact is that Ma Long still has to prove himself on the real deal stages.
    Ok i think, you are right, that the motivation is not even on every tournement. but a GREAT player would give 100% on every tournement, in every game. zhang jike gave his game against joo se hyuk away, because he was tired. ma long was tired too, but he fought.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anders
    Okay, sorry, but I have to agree with Harry. A player that has won several World championships and won the Olympics IS greater than a player that has won a gazillion of pro tours. Why? It's the thing about the name. When it is called Olympics, ALL the best are in. When it is called the worlds, ALL the best are in. Everyone trains theirs ass off to win that.

    "Nobody" trains like hell only to win a pro tour

    Waldner is for now the greatest of all times, but Ma Long is on his way to get there. But as Harry said, he's got to win something big before we can compare them to each other. ATM Ma Long is not even close to the results of Waldner.

    TIME WILL SHOW
    well even in pro tours or pro tour grand finals are the best of the world ... i dont think, that there is a difference between olympics or wttc.
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    #72
    Quote Originally Posted by PlasmaLight
    Ok i think, you are right, that the motivation is not even on every tournement. but a GREAT player would give 100% on every tournement, in every game. zhang jike gave his game against joo se hyuk away, because he was tired. ma long was tired too, but he fought.



    well even in pro tours or pro tour grand finals are the best of the world ... i dont think, that there is a difference between olympics or wttc.
    the difference is: EVERYONE wants to compete in the WTTC or the Olympics, but people skip pro tours to get ready for the Olympics and WTTC
    Don't hesitate. If you want to reach your goal, just go for it!

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    #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Anders
    the difference is: EVERYONE wants to compete in the WTTC or the Olympics, but people skip pro tours to get ready for the Olympics and WTTC
    yeah but they do the sport to be the best. and that means (for me) that you have to give everytime 100% and be the #1 ranked player. not to win one major title in your career.
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    #74
    Quote Originally Posted by ministry of silly serves
    walder is greater but if ma long and waldner both met at thier primes ma long would eat him for breakfast
    dont be silly..

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    #75
    Do you not think waldner tried every game from his final appearance at the age of 16 in the euro final v appelgren to the worlds in 97 at the age of 33, he was no 1 probably for 5 of those years at least.. Its easy to try you balls off and trying to win your first title when your 23 , see how ma gets on at 33,,,also if you dont try in china your oot,,, look at zhang,,, he was dropped for a while. check out the video waldner winning the euro asia 88 I was there, he lashed everyone again..

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    #76
    Quote Originally Posted by ministry of silly serves
    walder is greater but if ma long and waldner both met at thier primes ma long would eat him for breakfast
    Agreed, but it would still be an amazing match.
    To be honest I don't believe Ma Long has reached his peak yet... He'll be devastating when that time comes!

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    #77
    Quote Originally Posted by PingPongPom
    Interesting, mytabletennis.net were much less accomodating. When I posted this most of the people said I was an idiot and the thread was a waste of time LOL See why I love ttdaily :P
    What a disappointing crowd. This sort of discussion is what forums are for!

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    #78
    Quote Originally Posted by TT Guru
    What a disappointing crowd. This sort of discussion is what forums are for!
    I know I stopped reading the comments, they can be quite a rude bunch I was a little put off. Nevertheless, here is where the action is at the POLL IS DRAWN at 26-26!!!

    Remember than in 2009 Ma Long only beat Waldner 3-2. Waldner was nowhere near his prime then, you could argue Ma Long wasn't either but it gives you some idea of what Waldner could have been capable of in this era of the game if he was the same age as Ma Long.
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    #79
    Quote Originally Posted by PlasmaLight
    yeah but they do the sport to be the best. and that means (for me) that you have to give everytime 100% and be the #1 ranked player. not to win one major title in your career.
    True. Ma Long is generally spoken the best player from the last half a year. We still have to see how long his dominance will last though. If you are dominating your era, you automatically will win WTTC's/Olympics. Ma Long has a lot of WTTC's ahead of him in good condition, so it would be really strange if he didn't manage to win at least one. However, if he does fail to win one, you can surely state that he is absolutely not the greatest ever or greater than JO Waldner. So he still has to prove his real potention, and only a few people will doubt that he will do that in the coming years.

    But at this moment... He's not a legend, and Waldner is

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    #80
    how can you say he(ma long) is in the same catagory as any of the top chinese or even gatien, person shlager or samsonov, these have all won or been in world finals and olympic,,,surely wang liquin is the best of the modern era but guo is the best for me, four world finals in a row and a grand slam of world cup, world singles, world pro all in one year, he was probably unbeaten that year...guo is a legend....not ma ....he won nowt...wang hao won 5 chinese champs but was not allowed to win open tournaments just team event player...if wang liquin had won the olympics maybe he could be mentioned in the same league as waldner, but he choked in the semi s ..when unbeaten all year.. 3 world champs pretty good tho...even coming back from 3-1 and 7-1 down to beat ma lin... amazing...waldner came back from 18-6 to beat teng yi in the semi s in87.3-0,,, oh yes..

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