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    1. Top | #1
      guni4you is offline
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      Tibhar mx-s backhand

      Hi,

      I am currently using tibhar mx-p on backhand on a dhs W968 blade. It is great to use when i am doing backhand to backhand drills and when i know where the ball is coming. But, in a match i think it is too hard for me to control. I read that mx-s is a little slower, more grippy, spinny and better to block as it is less sensitive to spin. And i read somewhere that samsonov also uses mx-s instead of mx-p on backhand. So, is the mx-s gonna be a better option?

      Or on the other hand i can go to the other option and go for a soft rubber on the backhand which has tons of control and dwell like andro rasanter r37. Will the r37 be also good to block and punch? So this is my situation which of these two options is going to be better? I am looking for a rubber which is not too fast and is very easy to block with. Please advice.

      Thanks.
      Last edited by guni4you; 2 Weeks Ago at 01:09 AM.

    2. Top | #2
      BryanY is online now
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      Tibhar mx-s backhand

      I used to like EL-S on backhand. It was less bouncy and more controllable for me on backhand. (And 45 degree sponge usually works well on me for backhand). But I guess it depends on how hard you hit and what your style is.

      I found 37 degree sponges to be too mushy, even on backhand. I used Xiom Vega Europe DF (37 degree) and didn’t like it. (EL-S or FX-S should be okay depending on how hard/soft you want to go).
      Last edited by BryanY; 2 Weeks Ago at 02:05 AM.

    3. Top | #3
      Der_Echte is offline
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      You gott figure out a few things for you and your situation.

      Assuming you have solid enough fundamentals...

      First thing is category of rubber. What are the things you need to do and how well... do you need slow spin? Power loop? Hit? Allround?

      Next consideration is the sponge hardness. What you gotta know is your impact. Those will very solid strong impact who catch most of the ball generally go for harder sponge... but not in every case. Those with less forcefull bang into the ball but have fast bat tend to med to soft on sponge.

      You will need to understand your impact dynamics. You will also need to see if the rubber you want will work on your blade. Understanding blade composition and rubber dynamics help, but it isnt 100% predictable.

      Basically, you would still need to try it fir yourself and understand yourself.

      This is too deep for some players.

      By the way, what is some with a blade costing 6x the market average asking about how a $50 usd rubber works?

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    4. The Following 2 Users Like Der_Echte's Post:

      dhyeymehta (2 Weeks Ago),lasta (2 Weeks Ago)

    5. Top | #4
      guni4you is offline
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      Thanks for your reply. First of all, I got dhs w968 cz i am a forehand dominant player who uses 70-80% forehand and i heard that w968 has great dwell, power and is great for forehand. Thus, I gave it a go. And i have tried many blades and i just love it. Is it worth the steep price may be not. But I could easily afford it and a good blade is a long term investment and it turned out to be amazing.

      So on my backhand i like to block most of the times and punch. I read that mx-s is actually very good in the short game and is amazing to block.Thus, I was considering this option.
      Quote Originally Posted by Der_Echte View Post
      You gott figure out a few things for you and yo situation.

      Assuming you have solid enough fundamentals...

      First thing is category of rubber. What are the things you need to do and how well... do you need slow spin? Power loop? Hit? Allround?

      Next consideration is the sponge hardness. What you gotta know is your impact. Those will very solid strong impact who catch most of the ball generally go for harder sponge... but not in every case. Those with less forcefull bang into the ball but have fast bat tend to med to soft on sponge.

      You will need to understand your impact dynamics. You will also need to see if the rubber you want will work on your blade. Understanding blade composition and rubber dynamics help, but it isnt 100% predictable.

      Basically, you would still need to try it fir yourself and understand yourself.

      This is too deep for some players.

      By the way, what is some with a blade costing 6x the market average asking about how a $50 usd rubber works?

      Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

    6. Top | #5
      lasta is offline
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      FYI, Samsonov is known to used very hard blades and very hard rubbers. I "think" he does this because his swing speed is generally slower than most players at his level, and makes up for it with very fast equipment. If anyone has touch, it would be him, so control is no problem.

      Now back to topic: For block and punch, any short pips would be better than MXS.

      MXS is a medium topsheet on hard sponge, should be very spin sensitive. So if you are worried about that, there are better options.

      If you rather stick with inverted for "block and punch", and want something on the medium hard side, look into Nittaku Goriki Kaisoku.

    7. Top | #6
      guni4you is offline
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      So this nittaku rubber is not sensitive to incoming spin? How is the speed? Moreover, can i still sometimes perform backhand loops with it? Why is it so unpopular? never heard of it.
      Quote Originally Posted by lasta View Post
      FYI, Samsonov is known to used very hard blades and very hard rubbers. I "think" he does this because his swing speed is generally slower than most players at his level, and makes up for it with very fast equipment. If anyone has touch, it would be him, so control is no problem.

      Now back to topic: For block and punch, any short pips would be better than MXS.

      MXS is a medium topsheet on hard sponge, should be very spin sensitive. So if you are worried about that, there are better options.

      If you rather stick with inverted for "block and punch", and want something on the medium hard side, look into Nittaku Goriki Kaisoku.

    8. Top | #7
      lasta is offline
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      On another note, its good to EJ. We all pass through this phase. Sometimes I try a blade I know I wouldn't like, just to confirm if my hypothesis on how it "feels" is right. Nowadays, my guessing is becoming pretty darn accurate.

      But try to have a deeper thesis before pulling the trigger. Read up on composition, and look for the small sparkles of objective testing in a world of subjectivity (table tennis has a looooooong way to go compared to photography and audio).

      Dwell is an illusion, and getting that illusion usually means sacrifices in power, any blade can be "good" for forehand. Understand why, then ask how. Don't go buying some "he said she said W968 is da best for looping", statements like that tells me nothing.

    9. Top | #8
      lasta is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by guni4you View Post
      So this nittaku rubber is not sensitive to incoming spin? How is the speed? Moreover, can i still sometimes perform backhand loops with it? Why is it so unpopular? never heard of it.
      Rubbers that loop well are not insensitive. Opposite ends of the spectrum. Up to you to decide how far and in which direction you want to go. FYI, I loop with short pips, the Nittaku should do that a little better.

      Plenty of opinions here: https://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=33690

    10. Top | #9
      guni4you is offline
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      Have you tried this rubber yourself?
      Quote Originally Posted by lasta View Post
      rubbers that loop well are not insensitive. Opposite ends of the spectrum. Up to you to decide how far and in which direction you want to go. Fyi, i loop with short pips, the nittaku should do that a little better.

      Plenty of opinions here: https://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=33690

    11. Top | #10
      lasta is offline
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      Yep, medium hardness rubber, although the large, tall pimples tends to sink in more than most modern rubbers, helps with flat hitting consistency. Fairly fast (on the high impact smashing end), but "slightly" less bouncy than modern tensors on the low end. Decent grip, I would say medium-low "throw angle" on a proper brush stroke. Still, much higher than any short pips, closer to inverted. Good for someone who wants to stay with inverted, but want slightly less "bite" on the surface.

    12. Top | #11
      dhyeymehta is offline
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      Well se if u only want to block and punch with your backhand rubber i feel the mantra m might be good for u. If u want ur rubber rubber to have all those characteristics and loop too then mx-s might be a good choice as it has a low throw so i think that might help. But the best thing would be try one of your coach or friends rubber, see what is comfortable and then u can make a choice

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    13. Top | #12
      vik2000 is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by lasta View Post
      On another note, its good to EJ. We all pass through this phase. Sometimes I try a blade I know I wouldn't like, just to confirm if my hypothesis on how it "feels" is right. Nowadays, my guessing is becoming pretty darn accurate.

      But try to have a deeper thesis before pulling the trigger. Read up on composition, and look for the small sparkles of objective testing in a world of subjectivity (table tennis has a looooooong way to go compared to photography and audio).

      Dwell is an illusion, and getting that illusion usually means sacrifices in power, any blade can be "good" for forehand. Understand why, then ask how. Don't go buying some "he said she said W968 is da best for looping", statements like that tells me nothing.
      You need to expand on dwell is an illusion statement before going any further because I don't think many people understand what you are saying. If I'm slapping H3 on Schlager carbon, I'll have much harder time looping anything vs. slapping the H3 on Acoustic.

    14. Top | #13
      guni4you is offline
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      Hey Vik,

      Did you try rasanter 53 on backhand? Moreover, how is it compared to dignics 05? I am very happy with r53 on forehand but my technique is not good on backhand so in matches i make errors with mxp on backhand. You think mx-s which is a slower and harder version would be better for me? Need your advice.
      Quote Originally Posted by vik2000 View Post
      You need to expand on dwell is an illusion statement before going any further because I don't think many people understand what you are saying. If I'm slapping H3 on Schlager carbon, I'll have much harder time looping anything vs. slapping the H3 on Acoustic.

    15. Top | #14
      laistrogian is offline
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      Perhaps consider goldarc 8 or fastarc g1

    16. Top | #15
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      I use mxs on one of my set ups. If you brush a lot in the bh, it is good. Also good to push chop and punch block.

    17. Top | #16
      Der_Echte is offline
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      OP,

      It is good you identified the things you like to do and look for a rubber than makes it easier to do them, that is equipment optimization 101.

      On BH, on can block and punch with most modern inverted rubbers using effective techniques, but a firmer sponged rubber usually does a better job at the fast blocking, the serve receives, and the punching vs incoming underspin (the things you identified as important to be able to easily do)... as firmer sponged rubbers do not rebound crazy uncontrollable at low impacts or medium power with firm grip.

      That is why Calibra LT is used by some modern players who base their game around counter hitting a step plus away from table.

      Every company makes a firmer sponged rubber or three, so there are so many out there. The exact one is not so important, just that you get teh equipment that makes it easier to do your frequently used shots. There are trade-ofs... no single rubber does it all so well and washes your laundry for free. Some rubbers can do several things well and many others acceptbly well. That is pretty much the minimum for good to go. You go for what is important and trade off only a portion, instead of the whole shebang.

      Still, you will need to feel the rubber on your blade... if you know the kind of blade someone has and your rubber is on that dude's blade, get a hit if you can. It could save money and trouble.

      Still, if you have the budget for the blade you got, you could probably take the risk on 40 USD for MX-S... you look around you cab find it at that price.

      Your trade off is BH slow heavy looping a slower incoming ball... but if you do not do that so much, and prefer a power loop or drive, than no big eal there, even with a rubber performing well for a slow loop, it would be unsuitable given your stated mission peramaters.

    18. Top | #17
      Der_Echte is offline
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      A not so inexpensive older rubber for this task is Yasaka Extend HS... a controlable mid-firm early gen tensor rubber that could drive all day and play flat or low spin forever. You punch a drive or hit through a loop, that ball is screaming. It is a very direct low throw rubber.

      Ironically, a Korean ex-pro had many developing players using Schlager Carbon and that rubber in my old club... sounds crazy on the surface, but that combo is drive-easy dream setup for close to table and off table.

    19. Top | #18
      vik2000 is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Der_Echte View Post
      A not so inexpensive older rubber for this task is Yasaka Extend HS... a controlable mid-firm early gen tensor rubber that could drive all day and play flat or low spin forever. You punch a drive or hit through a loop, that ball is screaming. It is a very direct low throw rubber.

      Ironically, a Korean ex-pro had many developing players using Schlager Carbon and that rubber in my old club... sounds crazy on the surface, but that combo is drive-easy dream setup for close to table and off table.
      That is interesting indeed. I'd never thought Schlager carbon would be used for any developing players given that it's such a stiff blade. I often wonder how a very stiff blade like Primorac/Schlager carbon with a softer sponge plays (T05FX) vs. a less stiff blade like Acoustic with a hard sponge (T05H).

    20. Top | #19
      vik2000 is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by guni4you View Post
      Hey Vik,

      Did you try rasanter 53 on backhand? Moreover, how is it compared to dignics 05? I am very happy with r53 on forehand but my technique is not good on backhand so in matches i make errors with mxp on backhand. You think mx-s which is a slower and harder version would be better for me? Need your advice.
      Hey, I suppose MX-S will work fine, although I will use thinner sponge. One of the problems I'm encountering is how heavy my set up is getting. R53 at max thickness is no light rubber and if I pair another hard rubber on my BH, my set up could weigh around 200g. I prefer to stay under 190g myself. Evolution rubbers are fairly heavy to begin. It doesn't hurt to give it a try if budge allows. I do like MX-P on my BH with Acoustic right now buy I'm thinking of FX or EL series next for my BH.

    21. Top | #20
      jus10savestheday is offline
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      I was playing FX-S on my backhand for a while and I enjoyed its control when opening backspin. However, it was missing something for me. I tried switching to 1.9 and I gained even more control but I had a hard time controlling blocks. I even switched to Impartial XS and I liked that but I suffered as I backed from the table.

      My biggest complaint with the Evolution rubbers is the rubber's performance tends to fade quickly.

      The game changer for me was Dignics 05. I know it's costly, but it does everything with ease. I can block close to the table, I can flip, I can loop away from the table, I can punch; all easier than I could with FX-S. There are many times in game play that I can throw the blade in front of a loop and it blocks quick and low back on the table. The biggest challenge I have with it is opening backspin. I tend to throw it long. With FX-S I could loop backspin cross-court or down the line with higher percentages. FYI, I play Dignics in 1.9 as well.
      Last edited by jus10savestheday; 2 Weeks Ago at 03:51 PM.

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