Viscaria, Boll ALC or Innerforce ALC

UpSideDownCarl said:

To point this towards the silly side of things, at SPiN, when I used to go there, there were a few guys who would do some fun and funny things. Every been beaten by someone playing with a giant lollipop? Or a shoe? Or a small plank of wood? Or a cell phone?

If you want to improve, there is no shortcut. Train. Train more. And train the random element and game simulation. So much of tactics and performance in match play is reading the situation well and fast enough. So when you train the random element you are training brain processing speed and the ability to make good decisions in the middle of competitive play.

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Also tape some of your matches to see how you beat yourself and learn to reduce that.

And in addition to drills with randomness, drills where you have to move some to get to the ball, simple enough you can do them quite a while without missing, and gradually increasing difficulty as your mobility increases. Lose weight if needed.

Learn some good serves. Free points are free. Pay better players if necessary in order to practice returning good serves.

Obey The Rules. That goes without saying. Especially Rule 88.

Brs said:

This is so true, and it makes these never-ending threads like, will changing X make my flick 5% better? quite funny.

It will make no difference. Whatever the change is. No. Difference. Table tennis is all skills. I changed from T05 to SP on my backhand and in three months was playing at the same level. Not higher, not lower, same. That is an orders of magnitude bigger change than TB ALC to IF, or five-ply to seven, and still it made no difference.

Table tennis ability consists of basically three things, ball feeling, spin reading, and movement. If you want a (distant) fourth then can add tactics. Equipment isn't even a factor. It literally does not exist. Pure figment of our collective imagination. But don't let that stop you from getting a custom blade made with TB ALC forehand and IF backhand.

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Funny, so that means 1 blade and 2 rubbers are large enough for all the world as material doesn't affect the game. Specially when after changing a rubber it took you 3 month to come back at the same level, that's curious...or it shows material affect the game??

Gwenved said:

Funny, so that means 1 blade and 2 rubbers are large enough for all the world as material doesn't affect the game. Specially when after changing a rubber it took you 3 month to come back at the same level, that's curious...or it shows material affect the game??

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Maybe you missed my point. I switched from inverted to pimples out. And from five-ply ALL blade to composite at the same time. Yes, my level went down for a minute, by only about 100 points, even though I had never so much as hit with short pimples before. And two or three months later it was the same again. None of these threads are about changing inverted to pips-out. They are all "should I use rasanter or bluegrip?" "should I buy a clipper or a force pro?" I stand by my statement. It doesn't matter.

You suggestion of one blade and two rubbers (one inverted and one LP for chopping) for all the world is a brilliant one. Good players would still be good, bad players would still stink, and table tennis would be just as much fun to play. But the forums would be dead.

Brs said:

Maybe you missed my point. I switched from inverted to pimples out. And from five-ply ALL blade to composite at the same time. Yes, my level went down for a minute, by only about 100 points, even though I had never so much as hit with short pimples before. And two or three months later it was the same again. None of these threads are about changing inverted to pips-out. They are all "should I use rasanter or bluegrip?" "should I buy a clipper or a force pro?" I stand by my statement. It doesn't matter.

You suggestion of one blade and two rubbers (one inverted and one LP for chopping) for all the world is a brilliant one. Good players would still be good, bad players would still stink, and table tennis would be just as much fun to play. But the forums would be dead.

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I feel like the context of what you are trying to say is only applicable to very experienced players. I actually think that equipment selection is the quite important for developing players.

BryanY said:

I feel like the context of what you are trying to say is only applicable to very experienced players. I actually think that equipment selection is the quite important for developing players.

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It is often said and possible true but rarely proven. I thinking a player is properly coached, material becomes far less important. And in the end, material adds or subtracts at most 100 USATT points which is big in the short term, but not that big a deal in the long term of a career.

A relatively new player first getting serious about learning offensive style: any decent wood blade (Korbel, Appelgren etc. ) with reasonable rubber. At some point as they improve, they might benefit from a composite blade (ALC etc.) and/or a faster more "pro" rubber (so many to choose). At the end of the day the exact choices they make within those categories won't matter. Early on it MIGHT be clear that someone gets on better with ST or FL, or it might not. EJing will satisfy your curiosity. But it won't change your level. Top pros are looking for marginal gains over opponents. For them it might matter.

Injury issues could impact blade weight or handle choices. And people will develop preferences. But your expectations have to be realistic. So many threads here indicate unrealistic expectations, and a whiff of pseudoscience.

Baal said:

A relatively new player first getting serious about learning offensive style: any decent wood blade (Korbel, Appelgren etc. ) with reasonable rubber. At some point as they improve, they can choose a composite blade (ALC etc.) with a faster more "pro" rubber (so many to choose). At the end of the day the exact choices they make within those categories won't matter. Early on it MIGHT be clear that some one gets on better with ST or FL, or it might not. EJing will satisfy your curiosity. But it won't change your level. Top pros are looking for marginal gains over opponents. For them it might matter.

Injury issues could impact blade weight or handle choices. And people will develop preferences. But your expectations have to be realistic.

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Yeah for a player at the very top, 100 rating points is a huge deal. For most of us, it doesn't really change our results vs most of the people we play except our peers who are very close to our level.

As for whether to start with an all wood blade, I am no longer sold that the justification is clear. I think training volume and coaching matter way more than equipment. Ultimately style will be a factor but unless you are looking at OFF+ or DEF blades, most blades can be used to play similar styles. Of course I would say that when bands are in a close enough range, it isn't a big deal. But the greater the disparity, the more likely it can impact your play.

I think Baal and NextLevel are offering great insight. My experience is that the differences in feel/performance will be more significant in the earlier stages of one's development.

My TT history: adult learner, penhold, now playing regularly for 9+ years, in a non coaching region of the US. I have had maybe 5 total lifetime hours of paid/professional coaching. My growth has been pretty steady, slowly getting better, with the usual plateaus and then sudden bursts of improvement. In the last three years I have my own playing facility, robot (seldom used) and a couple of regular, addicted practice partners. Table time is hugely important and I average at least 5 days a week of 3 hour sessions.

Early on, as a penholder, 7 ply woods became my best choice for an offensive style of play. Attempts to use carbon showed me I didn't have the control to handle the fastest blocks and experiments with all 5 ply woods felt decidedly DEAD and unplayable. Eventually I found some carbon enhanced 7's that felt good and then last year switched entirely to a TB ALC/ or Viscaria clone, the Yinhe V-14 Pro. Happy! And my level has improved significantly this year, due to effort, not equipment.

BUT, if you are still reading this far, a funny thing happened, just this week. I pulled out some blades from the collection of past experimenting. Against my best competitor I had excellent results playing with one of my wife's Donic Appengren Allplay All+! Instead of feeling totally dead (like anything off- or slower felt in the past) it just felt different. Kinda fun. It required me to be sure to hit with my legs and punished "all arm" type strokes, but my game has changed to include legs. So I took out one of my 7 ply carbons that always felt too fast and low throwing...and had an equally good time and it only took a few minutes adjustment.

So the upshot is the difference in blades was huge in my more beginner stages, but now it is more a matter of preference for feel. But I do love the ALC Yinhe...and just ordered another to put back as a reserve!

Thanks, flatstyk. Part of good coaching (though some coaches lack the experience) is to talk you through the limitations of equipment. The thing is that most differences feel great or crappy in the beginning then things start to level off. But beginners are concerned with consistency and this is what drives some of the equipment recommendations. But a technically oriented coach whose student gives the practice time or volume can simply have the student train enough to control the equipment. Every piece of equipment has advantages and disadvantages which within the training range can be overcome with volume of practice.


When you ask Boll why he uses the ALC instead of the T5000 (looping OFF vs hitting OFF+), you hear about the tradeoff between arc and speed for his style. But most blades within the modern looping range aren't that different. If you look at the Butterfly spec chart, the innerforce ALC is a bit slower but it is still an offensive looping blade. Maybe a player with fewer practice hours might prefer it or someone who likes more vibration or softer feel. But if forced to use it, most people would not be too far off from where they would be using a BOLL ALC.