Is it true that in a pushing rally, you don't have to try to add more spin?

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Another under-discussed tactic is a sudden off the bounce short or long angled push to get a weaker ball or a ball in the expected zone to initiate attack. I use that method a lot against pushers who do not push where I want it.

I never worry about the amount of underspin the incoming ball has... attacking against underspin is the easiest attack out there pretty much. As long as I can see the ball well (spin, depth, pace, arrival point in 3D) I can attack it strongly with spin, speed, or both with high consistency.

The thing is, as huge as I am, I prefer to move less and increase my consistency on strong attacks - when the ball is pretty much already in the prime part of my strike zone, it makes things much easier.
 
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To go back to the original question of whether it is absolutely essential to increase spin consciously in a push rally, obvious answer is no - there are many possible responses and no single one is mandatory.

This is the key thing - while lots of things in table tennis are level dependent, there is truly no single correct answer in table tennis to win or stay in a point all the time. IT is always style and context dependent and must take into account the abilities of the player.

As a general rule in table tennis, the more spin your opponent puts in the ball, the less spin you need to use to control the ball with inverted. IT doesn't mean you can't push a heavy push with a heavy push, but that it may not be your best option as controlling heavy spin with heavy spin is usually a difficult enterprise.
 
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The simple answer to the OP's question is that one doesn't need to add spin to the ball. The ball must only be returned one more time that an opponent and it is best to keep the ball low.

After warm ups we usually do a push drill. The server serves balls with under spin so that the other guy must push the ball. We keep pushing until someone makes a bad push and the other can attack it. However, we have got better so we are now able to attack many pushes that would have been good enough years ago. Since most rallies start with a servo and a push, I think this drill is applicable to about 70% of rallies.

We learn two things.
How to make good pushes. Keep them low and short. This requires "soft hands"
How to attack under spin balls. One learns how to loop back spin balls FH and BH and flicks over the table.
I call this the "street fighting" part of TT.

One learn through experience but I think it is best to know what is really happening and apply it to your game.
The big problem with pushing is that the ball will either go into the net, go low enough where it can't be attacked easily or go to high so it goes off the table or is easily attacked. The way I see it is that one must always be aware of the energy in the ball from spin and speed. A slow ball with lots of spin can still jump off your paddle quickly due to spin if one is not careful.

There are videos on YT made by Pathfinderpro that shows how balls react to different rubbers. Beginners should watch this. It answers the questions about spin continuation and spin reversal. The videos also show that the better players and lessor players do not agree which rubbers are the best.

but he failed to get it on a few other importing things as there are many factors determining absorbing of energy and rebound dynamics.
like what? There is only the speed after impact formulas. Konrad Tieffenbacher wrote this
https://www.ittfeducation.com/impact-table-tennis-ball-racket/
The article covers how the tangential and normal coefficient of restitution change as a function of wood, rubber and impact speed.

This article is very good but it is old. Someone should do the same kind of research for plastic balls and the newer rubbers.

Do a search for Konrad Teiffenbacher. He is not a light weight.

Another person that has his stuff in one sock is Rodney Cross of Sydney University. Prof Cross studies impacts like balls on rubber. He has some interesting videos.

The truth is out there if you want to search and study. So why bother?
Knowledge rules but you must practice to be able to apply it in TT or any other topic.
 
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I don't really understand this and I believe it is important to understand spin dynamics to assist shot selection. I was taught that you could either add spin or takeaway spin. Surely, spin will only keep on increasing if one player pushes/chops and the other player topspins, i.e they are both adding spin in the same direction?
hi spike
in fact it is the other way round!!
lets take topspin against chop
lets say the chop has a spin value of 5
this means that as your rubber is poised below the edge of the of the ball ready to apply topspin one of 3 events might occur.
1:-you just touch the ball without brushing upward. result the ball will run downward immediately because of the backspin rotation of the ball
2:-you do brush the ball with an upward value of 4. Result the ball will again run downward because the surface of the ball is rotating away from the ball faster than the bat is brushing upward. (5 vs 4)
3:- you do brush the ball with an upward value of 6. result because the bat is brushing upward faster than the surface of the ball is rotating away (5 vs 6) the ball will go up in the familiar topspin arc or loop.
In practical terms to lift chop by means of brushing, you must brush upward faster than the chopper brushed downward.
now push vs push
as you brush forward under the ball the speed of the brushing contact between your rubber and the incoming ball
is the speed of the ball moving toward you(lets say 2) PLUS the speed of the rotation of the balls surface rotating toward your rubber(lets say 3 ) so the total effect is 5 . However you are going to brush forward at 6. This will make the value of the spin force to be 11 which will mean that your push will send back more spin than you received. If you had just a light touch of say 1 or 2 you would have returned spin more similar to what your partner sent.
topspin vs topspin
by same principal incoming topspin of 50 you apply similar return stroke result will be 100
to make use of this principal concentrate on touch to apply a pure brush stroke.

note that the above is a statement of the principals at work. Using this knowledge to win points may involve choosing to spin less.
Finally here is an interesting experiment:- Put 2 bats (smooth rubber) side by side on the table. with a third bat gently hit a ball with backspin such that it bounces backwards from bat 1 to bat 2. Observe which direction it bounces from bat 2 and think about the result.
hope this helps!
good luck
 
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hi spike
in fact it is the other way round!!
lets take topspin against chop
lets say the chop has a spin value of 5
this means that as your rubber is poised below the edge of the of the ball ready to apply topspin one of 3 events might occur............


........ hope this helps!
good luck

Thanks for such a detailed reply. I think I've got it now! I tried the 2 bat experiment - it explains a lot. Thanks very much.
 
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There are videos on YT made by Pathfinderpro that shows how balls react to different rubbers. Beginners should watch this. It answers the questions about spin continuation and spin reversal. ........

Thank you. I checked out this channel. The following video demonstrated that the ball won't necessarily respond in a set way when impacting the rubber. I guess the moral of the story is "watch the ball" and respond accordingly. https://youtu.be/bdACvEvZjRM
 
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The simple answer to the OP's question is that one doesn't need to add spin to the ball. The ball must only be returned one more time that an opponent and it is best to keep the ball low.

After warm ups we usually do a push drill. The server serves balls with under spin so that the other guy must push the ball. We keep pushing until someone makes a bad push and the other can attack it. However, we have got better so we are now able to attack many pushes that would have been good enough years ago. Since most rallies start with a servo and a push, I think this drill is applicable to about 70% of rallies.

We learn two things.
How to make good pushes. Keep them low and short. This requires "soft hands"
How to attack under spin balls. One learns how to loop back spin balls FH and BH and flicks over the table.
I call this the "street fighting" part of TT.

One learn through experience but I think it is best to know what is really happening and apply it to your game.
The big problem with pushing is that the ball will either go into the net, go low enough where it can't be attacked easily or go to high so it goes off the table or is easily attacked. The way I see it is that one must always be aware of the energy in the ball from spin and speed. A slow ball with lots of spin can still jump off your paddle quickly due to spin if one is not careful.

There are videos on YT made by Pathfinderpro that shows how balls react to different rubbers. Beginners should watch this. It answers the questions about spin continuation and spin reversal. The videos also show that the better players and lessor players do not agree which rubbers are the best.


like what? There is only the speed after impact formulas. Konrad Tieffenbacher wrote this
https://www.ittfeducation.com/impact-table-tennis-ball-racket/
The article covers how the tangential and normal coefficient of restitution change as a function of wood, rubber and impact speed.

This article is very good but it is old. Someone should do the same kind of research for plastic balls and the newer rubbers.

Do a search for Konrad Teiffenbacher. He is not a light weight.

Another person that has his stuff in one sock is Rodney Cross of Sydney University. Prof Cross studies impacts like balls on rubber. He has some interesting videos.

The truth is out there if you want to search and study. So why bother?
Knowledge rules but you must practice to be able to apply it in TT or any other topic.

great post brokenball!
 
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