This user has no status.
2019 ITTF World Tour Grand Finals
- Thread starter TTetta
- Start date
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
says
Shoo...nothing to see here. - zeio
The one hotly discussed in this thread and NextLevel's favourite empirical example... Z...J...K...!
Who goes there?
Haha yeah good to see him there isn't it?
says
Shoo...nothing to see here. - zeio
Somebody send ML this image.
http://www.mytabletennis.net/forum/...bherr-2016-ittf-european-championships#955592
http://www.mytabletennis.net/forum/...bherr-2016-ittf-european-championships#955592
The red(ball and net)+orange(indefinite upward extension) area is the space defined by rule 2.06.05:
The space itself transforms as the ball rises and falls.
The difficulty with faulting Lebesson's serve is that his free arm and hand are well outside of that space for the entirety of the service, so technically he is hiding the ball per rule 2.06.04 but can't be faulted because of the gray area in rule 2.06.05.
Last edited:
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
I don't think we substantively disagree, except how far this trust stands in the face of injury. I agree no amount of drop in form will affect ML's chances in selection. The way CNT assesses your suitability for a big event is heavily, even overwhelmingly dependant on your performance in these events in the recent(ish) past. How you are playing at the moment has almost 0 bearing on that assessment.
In that sense, even if Ma long were dropping matches to foreigners left and right before selection, he'd still be selected. He's clearly the CNT's no 1 option for the Olympics, even over FZD, and it's not even close..... As long as he's not injured.
I think were we disagree is, if he were injured enough for it to show. As in, if his mobility is visibly effected by injury (but he's still capable of playing, like in the world cup). I don't think CNT will just gloss over that because of sentiment. At some stage, if you are injured enough, even if you are still technically capable of playing, I think CNT has to, and will make the assessment that no amount of 'stepping up for the occasion' is going to overcome that.
They MIGHT still select him and try to get him healthy, but I think they will make an assessment on whether sufficient recovery is even possible in that time span.
He's no spring chicken anymore, and his recovery from current injuries is going very poorly. I think it's not inconceivable that the CNT might just say, 'Sorry, we trust in your ability to fight, but we just don't believe in your body's ability to recover from this in time'
Last edited:
says
Shoo...nothing to see here. - zeio
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
The problem is that everyone plays injured. I mean, ZJK when he tried to make his comeback was injured and he still got to a World Tour finals in Japan (and lost deuce in the 7th to Harimoto). Boll is almost always injured - it is a running joke amongst some people that what would Boll be if he were healthy - but some people then point out that most players have something or the other to contend with and it is a matter of how you want to weigh it. Ma Long was injured and he won a WTTC. So even with the injury, they could take risks if Ma Long is willing to screw the pain and just play one last tournament as the Olympics (doesn't have to be his last tournament, but it can be his last big event and he can take maximum risks with health just to win it - ZJK may very well have done something like this for Rio). So I find it hard to imagine a scenario where ML is not going to make it, even if he is not the best player on the team in practice. Whether we call it deserve or owe, the kind of injury that will prevent ML from going is not the kind of injury he currently has - he has to be virtually unable to play to really get excluded. Losing doesn't count.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
I didn't count the crowd as a matchup. The disparity in crowd support was ridiculous.
says
Shoo...nothing to see here. - zeio
And then the constant service calls actually benefited ML. It disrupted the flow so much.
says
Shoo...nothing to see here. - zeio
Last edited:
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
zeio, shall I send these images to the umpires and the ITTF rule committee instead?
This is what every serve by Liang Jingkun looked like today. Before people accuse me of favoritism: it is also how every serve by Ma Long looked like. Before people say "so what's your problem then? These are all faults by the letter of the law" I answer: so is 90% of serves from 95% of the players. The cleanest pendulum I can think of is that of Vladimir Samsonov, no shenanigans whatsoever. However, by the letter of the law, his pendulums are faults. Even though the opponent can clearly see the ball at all times, the ball is obscured as viewed from the right net clamp. And, as zeio cites, that renders the serve illegal according to the currently used rules.
My questions are then:
- what good are the rules that make a completely innocent serve, that is fully visible to the receiver, an illegal one?
- what good are the rules, when within a single match or across several matches there is no consistency whatsoever?
Continuing on, note that there is two possible ways to make the calls consistent:
- don't ever fault these serves, aka the sensible approach;
- fault every one of them, which would include every pendulum in the match between Liang Jingkun and Ma Long (I posted two screenshots but they're in no way unique, I couls post a screenshot for every serve), every pendulum by most of the players (seriously, go watch them on youtube and try to find a clean one), every shovel serve, every reverse pendulum, even some tomahawks.
If you still don't believe me when I say every pendulum serve by most of the players is technically illegal, here's a couple serves from Hugo and Fan (can you guess how many faults were called?):
Zeio, your online contribution to the western TT community is uneven. Thanks a lot for all the translations and stuff you're posting!
Had to say it
says
Shoo...nothing to see here. - zeio
You're welcome. Glad you find it helpful. I hope the rest of the world could better understand why the CNT do things in a certain way that some might find expedient, where they are coming from.
Similar threads
