says Shoo...nothing to see here. - zeio
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they beat SK 3-1 , losing the doubles where Ishikawa showed how bad she was in that discipline...

Hirano beat Jeon Jihee 3-0 in this team event.

She did lose JJ in T2 but that was a special format with the Fast 5 system and she lost only 3-4 and perhaps the pressure was much higher because of her race with Kasumi.

Ito won her 2 singles very easily. I think Japan is way above SK

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ITO won 3-2 against CHOI but personally i never felt she was in danger against her or SHIN YB it was more about ITO not being focused than her opponents playing like a top10 player.

I think next time they'll get 3-0 and that Kasumi will spend more time training in doubles

some stats about CHOI and who beat her since the Qatar Open (not going further it doesn't display on the same page)
Minnie SOO
Haruna OJIO
Sakura MORI
Sofia POLCANOVA

she is definitely not a terror

for SHIN Yubin
Hana MATELOVA
Hina HAYATA
Miyu KATO
Ganna GAPONOVA
Anastasia KOLISH
Satsuki ODO
Adriana DIAZ
Honoka HASHIMOTO...

you get the picture... ITO did 3 drop 3 games in total to these 2 players, but its not about these players being strong but about ITO not being in her best (mental) form, and still when she needed to up her game, she managed to do it and win easily
 
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Respectfully I disagree. You cannot move the goal post and change the rules once the competition began. Not after it was announced to the world and the race is on. This is what playing fair is all about.
Following your reasoning, the Hirano-Shibata may be a foil to keep Hayata away, just as the dismantling of the Ito-Hayata combo after April. With Hayata in the picture, it would gum up JTTA’s preconceived plans. Now there is no current viable data to support a Hayata combo is the right choice. But there are sufficient results to show a Ishikawa-Hirano combo is at best mediocre.
Anyway, it’s a conspiracy theory I don’t quite subscribe.
Either way, the Ishikawa-Hirano race was open, transparent, with both losing precious opportunities in what appeared to be a continued series of comedies of error. Myself, I think the turning point was Ishikawa gaining entry to the first T2 and thereby 400 more points, and Hirano inexplicably losing both in WWC to Zhang and Jeon in T2.
But both Ishikawa & Hirano are near their breaking points because of the large number of games played, without satisfactory results and mental pressure. That much is evident to me.

In the end, it came down to Markham, and half a year of stumbles against what the world has to offer ended with a head to head fight for the spot. Hirano actually played very well, but Ishikawa was fighting for her life, a chance for her last Olympic, on home soil yet. The experience won out.
I see Tokyo is an opportunity to gain a WS medal in Ito. I can’t see Japan getting even a Silver in Team, not with Ishikawa and Hirano in it.
As for Hayata, I hope she keeps building herself up for 2024. She’s not ready for the harsh realities of Tokyo yet, and it’s better for her development not to take a fall/hit, and be tarnished for Japan’s Team failings.
Now the race for the ‘P’ card begins.

I was all the way with you until you proposed the ridiculous notion that Japan cannot get a silver medal in team with Ishikawa and Hirano. Japan could field the defenders and Hayata in team and still win the silver medal. The gold is the only thing up for debate if at all.
 
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Could be, but how you can explain last olympics. They chose LXX and ZJK both not at their best.
As I remember they said anyone can go if win a tournament (I think it was Asian championships). LSW lost to Hong Kong player and lost her chances. LXX won the tournament and hot the ticket. Second ticket was to be given directly from ctta.

We have discussed this many times. But the answer, which you can check if you review the Olympic selection history of China is the the (two) WTTC champs of the prior cycle to the Olympics will play the Olympics singles unless there is some serious reason to not pick them.
 
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Looking forward for ML vs JYS match. Wondering how it will affect ML's chances for Olympics if he loses !

I doubt it will, he has 6 months to prepare and they will give him every support they can. The guy has done too much for China for them to not give him just about anything he wants. ZJK was worse and got more investment.
 
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We have discussed this many times. But the answer, which you can check if you review the Olympic selection history of China is the the (two) WTTC champs of the prior cycle to the Olympics will play the Olympics singles unless there is some serious reason to not pick them.

Just checked the results of ZJK before last olympics he lost to fegerl, lundqvist, ovtcharov and chen chien an, not to mentioned chinese players.
That means it should not be a problem for XX loosing to gauzy or ML loosing to other players or ding ding.
I think they usualy let gold holders defend their titles.
 
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Just checked the results of ZJK before last olympics he lost to fegerl, lundqvist, ovtcharov and chen chien an, not to mentioned chinese players.
That means it should not be a problem for XX loosing to gauzy or ML loosing to other players or ding ding.
I think they usualy let gold holders defend their titles.

English is probably not your first language but ZJK was the WTTC champ in 2011 (which qualified him for 2012) and 2013 (which qualified him for 2016). XX has no WTTC title and choked away his best chance to make one (since his prior losses had been to teammates) by losing to Gauzy.

Is that clear enough for you?
 
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People forget that in 2016, Xu Xin also choked in the Olympic trials by losing to CCY very badly. In the same tournament, ZJK managed to avoid losing till the loss to ML in the SF. Fan got to the final and lost to ML. I know it is a long time ago but things like that also affected LSW. The big difference now is that LSW is a champion of the world. So she is in. The CNT have excused Ding Ning enough times that I am fairly sure that unless they think she is injured, she is also in. SUN Yingsha will get the third spot unless something crazy happens. But the bottom line is that Xu Xin hurt himself badly with that loss to Gauzy. He is just lucky that there is no one behind him at the moment.
 
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I was all the way with you until you proposed the ridiculous notion that Japan cannot get a silver medal in team with Ishikawa and Hirano. Japan could field the defenders and Hayata in team and still win the silver medal. The gold is the only thing up for debate if at all.
We fervently hope your assessment is correct, but cannot harbour the same sentiments at this writing. A team is only as strong as it’s weakest, the current components (2/3) are certainly far from their best. Maybe now that the dust is settled, the anxieties relaxed somewhat, these two will choke less. More than half a yr to go yet, there is certainly room for optimism.

Somewhat off topic, paraphrasing Prof Liu Wei, cctv5 commentator at the Markham Final on Ishikawa “...cannot bank on her own best, but wishing for her opponent’s worst.” That’s how we feel right now.
 
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We fervently hope your assessment is correct, but cannot harbour the same sentiments at this writing. A team is only as strong as it’s weakest, the current components (2/3) are certainly far from their best. Maybe now that the dust is settled, the anxieties relaxed somewhat, these two will choke less. More than half a yr to go yet, there is certainly room for optimism.

Somewhat off topic, paraphrasing Prof Liu Wei, cctv5 commentator at the Markham Final on Ishikawa “...cannot bank on her own best, but wishing for her opponent’s worst.” That’s how we feel right now.

As much as this is an interesting view of Ishikawa, the truth is that for the most part, she has been the most consistent non-ethnic Chinese player of the past decade. Had a callow Ito not lost to Petrissa Solja in 2016 Olympics, she would have won silver for Japan with her strong performance throughout the teams. And in singles, she lost to the bronze medal winner. In 2012, she lost the bronze medal match to Feng Tianwei.

The knock on her is that she is hopeless against the CNT because she plays like them but is just not as athletically gifted and ends up worse. But that aside, she tends to be solid against anyone not in a Chinese uniform.

How this history of performance gets interpreted as looking for the worst in the opponent, I do not know. I fully understand why people do not want her to play in Tokyo, but it is easy to forget how well she has performed for Japan in general.
 
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...the truth is that for the most part, she has been the most consistent non-ethnic Chinese player of the past decade.
...she tends to be solid against anyone not in a Chinese uniform.
I fully understand why people do not want her to play in Tokyo, but it is easy to forget how well she has performed for Japan in general.

These feelings are mutual, at least from the two of us. Anyway, we want you to be right, despite our current misgivings. Thank you for your candid views.
 

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I think everyone knows this. So much energy arguing over IK, MH, HH when their chances against top CNT are all the same, slim to none. It's not like Ishikawa is stealing a place from a player who actually has a chance to win. Reality is on CNT they would all be battling for spots below WYD and QT. Ito must be the only outside woman in the world who would be an A team player in China.

I don't know if it's any different in the Men's, I don't care much about men's TT. Maybe LYJ could play his way into a spot.
 
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I think everyone knows this. So much energy arguing over IK, MH, HH when their chances against top CNT are all the same, slim to none. It's not like Ishikawa is stealing a place from a player who actually has a chance to win. Reality is on CNT they would all be battling for spots below WYD and QT. Ito must be the only outside woman in the world who would be an A team player in China.

I don't know if it's any different in the Men's, I don't care much about men's TT. Maybe LYJ could play his way into a spot.

I think this misunderstands the value of team preparation in growing Chinese players. Just about all the top Japanese players would be able to hold their own in the CNT if forced to as they would be forced to train with higher level players. The system would treat them differently though. Where Ito has an advantage is that she is always trying to change her game. This is incredibly difficult.

Even on the men's side, the top European players compete well with the Chinese. The Chinese system is just too deep and the preparation too thorough. There aren't 10 players in China as good as Boll but quite a few can beat with the right opportunity because of the tactical preparation.

The fact that the Chinese are bringing in instant replay at this time makes me suspicious. We will see tomorrow whether Ito's serves pass criticism.
 
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I think this misunderstands the value of team preparation in growing Chinese players. Just about all the top Japanese players would be able to hold their own in the CNT if forced to as they would be forced to train with higher level players. The system would treat them differently though.

I agree that if Hirano/Ishikawa/Hayata were Chinese and on CNT from the beginning they could be better players than they are now. My roundabout point was if they were on CNT today, at their current level, they would not be immediately behind the players CNT will send to Tokyo 2020 WS. They would be behind the players behind the players behind the players behind those two top CNT Women. SRSLY
LSW SYS / DN CM / WMY ZYL / CXT WYD

Would you pick any two of Ishikawa Hirano and Hayata over any of those pairings?

So it really doesn't matter which one JNT sends to play WS with Ito. Could take the top six and pick one through a rock-paper-scissors tournament. The result would be the same, with much less stress and hard feeling in the team.
 
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I was all the way with you until you proposed the ridiculous notion that Japan cannot get a silver medal in team with Ishikawa and Hirano. Japan could field the defenders and Hayata in team and still win the silver medal. The gold is the only thing up for debate if at all.
so do you believe Japan has a better chancing winning gold than a chance to lose before final? Personally I think they will most likely win silver, but the chance of losing before final is higher than winning gold.
 
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I agree that if Hirano/Ishikawa/Hayata were Chinese and on CNT from the beginning they could be better players than they are now. My roundabout point was if they were on CNT today, at their current level, they would not be immediately behind the players CNT will send to Tokyo 2020 WS. They would be behind the players behind the players behind the players behind those two top CNT Women. SRSLY
LSW SYS / DN CM / WMY ZYL / CXT WYD

Would you pick any two of Ishikawa Hirano and Hayata over any of those pairings?

So it really doesn't matter which one JNT sends to play WS with Ito. Could take the top six and pick one through a rock-paper-scissors tournament. The result would be the same, with much less stress and hard feeling in the team.

I agree it doesn't particularly matter who else JNT sends with Ito.

But i think completely the opposite on a random pick. Given that this came down to a game between 2 candidates, this is just about the best possible outcome in terms of selection. Where whichever player didn't make it would only have themselves to blame.

As it happened, it was up to Hirano and Ishikawa to step up, and Ishikawa stepped up. Hirano can take away the lesson from this to seize your opportunities. If it was selected by random lot, or just by JNT decree, whoever doesn't get selected pretty much will feel robbed, because they never got a chance to earn the place.
 
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