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      Marvellous 12 2020

      Updated: 29 December 2019

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      The yearly affair is back again, only that it will be held between 1 January to 4 January 2020 this time. The World Team Table Tennis Championships 2020 is scheduled for 22 to 29 March 2020, Busan.

      Singles Format

      单打赛制方面,本次直通赛分为两个阶段:第一阶段采用7局4胜的单场淘汰赛制。第一阶段第一轮比赛,根据种子排名进行抽签,两两比拼决出6位晋级选手;第二轮比赛,6位选手依然根据种子排名再次进行抽签、两两比拼决出晋级第二阶段的3位选手。
      第二阶段,从第一阶段脱颖而出的3位选手采用7局4胜的“血战到底”赛制。第二阶段第一轮比赛中,如果某位选手获得两连胜,则比赛结束,该名全胜的队员获得最终的冠军。若出现3人互有胜负的情况,则三人再增加一轮只打一局11分的比赛;再出现互有胜负,再增加一轮只打一局从5:5开局的比赛;还未出现全胜的选手,再增加一轮只打一局从8:8开局的比赛;仍未有全胜的选手,再增加一轮只打一局从10:10开局的比赛……直到决出获得全胜的选手。
      There will be two stages. Stage 1 adopts the elimination set-up instead of round-robin as used in previous versions – i) best of 7 games and; ii) match-ups based on seedings (unsure how they are seeded but probably WR). This leaves 6 players by the first round and will repeat for another cycle so that only 3 players remain.


      These three players will then proceed to stage 2 (round robin) which is the real challenge IMO. Clearly, the winner will emerge when one has won two matches in a best of 7 games format. However in the event that they each has one win and one loss (and this is where things get interesting), they will play for another round – this time for only 1 game per match. If there is no clear winner again (i.e. one win and one loss each), the third round will see them start from 5 points each (1 game per match and played till 11 points at least), 8 points each in the fourth round if it comes to that (1 game per match and played till 11 points at least) and 10 points each for the fifth round if it comes to that (1 game per match) and so on until someone finally snags two wins.


      Men's Team
      Ma Long; Xu Xin; Fan Zhendong, Lin Gaoyuan, Liang Jingkun, Zhao Zihao, Xue Fei*, Zhou Qihao*, Zhou Kai*, Xu Chenhao*, Ma Te*, Zhang Yudong*

      *These six emerged victorious from the initial stage of selection which comprised 23 players. In order of final ranking: Wang Chuqin (20W 2L but serving his suspension), Xue Fei (17W 5L), Zhou Qihao (15W 7L), Zhou Kai, Xu Chenhao, Zhang Yudong, Ma Te, Fang Bo, Xiang Peng, Yan An, Xu Yingbin, Zhou Yu, Xu Haidong, Zheng Peifeng, Yu Ziyang, Zhu Linfeng, Sun Wen, Liu Dingshuo, Xia Yizheng, Yu Heyi, Ren Hao, Yan Sheng, Sun Jiayi

      Women's Team

      Ding Ning; Chen Meng; Wang Manyu; Sun Yingsha; Zhu Yuling; Chen Xingtong; Wang Yidi; He Zhuojia; Gu Yuting; Liu Fei; Zhang Rui; Qian Tianyi

      As expected, there are three pips players (half-long pips He Zhuojia, short-pips Zhang Rui and Liu Fei who also uses pips but to chop). Liu Shiwen has withdrawn following a foot injury.

      Only the winner is guaranteed a spot for WTTTC 2020. Seems like the other four will be picked by the coaches. According to the prospectus on the ITTF website, "final entries will be open from Saturday 14 December 2019 and the closing deadline is Friday 17 January 2020, 23:59 GMT".

      Mixed Doubles

      混双比赛第一阶段,6对选手采用两两对战、7局4胜单场淘汰的赛事,3对选手脱颖而出。和单打一样,混双比赛第二阶段也采用“血战到底”的赛制。第二阶段第一轮3对选手相互对战,5局3胜,如果某对选手获得两连胜,则比赛结束,该组合获得最终的冠军。
      若出现3对选手互有胜负的情况,则3对选手再增加一轮只打一局11分的比赛;再出现互有胜负,再增加一轮只打一局从5:5开局的比赛;还未出现全胜的组合,再增加一轮只打一局从8:8开局的比赛;仍未有全胜的选手,再增加一轮只打一局从10:10开局的比赛………直到决出全胜的组合。
      Two stages once more. Stage 1 is essentially the same as the Singles – i) elimination and; ii) best of 7 games but only for one cycle as that will already leave 3 pairs standing. Stage 2 again emulates the Singles, which is round-robin among the 3 pairs but played to the best of 5 games. The winning pair needs to seal two matches once again. In the event of a tie, the rumble resumes and each subsequent round will get shorter (1 game per match played to 11 points at least; 1 game per match played to 11 points at least but each pair starts with 5 points; 1 game per match played to 11 points at least but each pair starts with 8 points) until a winner emerges.


      Pairings: 1) Xu Xin/Sun Yingsha; 2) Ma Long/Ding Ning; 3) Fan Zhendong/Gu Yuting; 4) Lin Gaoyuan/Wang Manyu; 5) Liang Jingkun/Chen Meng; 6) Yu Ziyang/Zhu Yuling

      Tentative Schedule

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      Source: http://www.ctta.cn/xhgg/ssxg/2019/1223/304723.html
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      Last edited by Janard; 12-29-2019 at 05:32 AM.

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    3. Top | #2
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      Thanks, very interesting !

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      #11 is Zhao Zhihao. He got the spot because he’s a pen holder. #12 may be a chopper?
      Last edited by Free bird; 12-18-2019 at 01:49 PM.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Free bird View Post
      #11 is Zhao Zhihao. He got the spot because he’s a pen holder. #12 may be a chopper?
      I wonder what happened to Niu Guankai.
      Cobra Kai TT Exponent - No mercy in this dojo, no matter your rating or the score. All spin, no power or footwork.

    7. Top | #5
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      Race for Tokyo 2020 - China, Japan
      Time capsules - 2020, 2024, 2028

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      It is not possible for CNT to just "pick" another mix pairing. XX/LSW are conditionally qualified for now. Should another Chinese pair win the Asian continental qualification, they will take the place (if both players are selected for teams). Continental qualification takes presedence over Grand Finals, World tour 2020 and ranking.

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      Read an online news from China. Seems like the women’s team will not have stage one like men’s team. Instead they will directly use WR to determine the 12 players who are:
      1. Chen Meng
      2. Sun Yingsha
      3. Liu Shiwen
      4. Zhu Yuling
      5. Wang Manyu
      6. Ding Ning
      7. Chen Xintong
      8. He Zhuojia
      9. Wang Widi
      10. Gu Yuting
      11. Qian Tianyi
      12. Liu Fei

      Let’s wait for the official confirmation.

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    13. Top | #8
      zeio is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by NextLevel View Post
      I wonder what happened to Niu Guankai.
      He has been demoted to B-team early this year.

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    15. Top | #9
      zeio is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Mytoman View Post
      It is not possible for CNT to just "pick" another mix pairing. XX/LSW are conditionally qualified for now. Should another Chinese pair win the Asian continental qualification, they will take the place (if both players are selected for teams). Continental qualification takes presedence over Grand Finals, World tour 2020 and ranking.
      From past experience, the rules would limit participation only to teams who have yet to obtain a quota. It's likely China won't get to send a team for continental qualification.

      Also, the "REALLOCATION OF UNUSED QUALIFICATION PLACES" states that "any unused quota obtained at the WTGF 2019/WT 2020 will be reallocated to the next best-placed eligible mixed doubles pair, not yet qualified, from the May 2020 ITTF Olympic Mixed Doubles Ranking list."

      According to LGL's interview, the 2 pairs they sent for WTTC 2019 were the strongest. So, FZD/DN is the backup pair but it is not working out as the pair has stopped playing after losing to Harimoto/Hayata in Japan Open.

      That's why LGL is most worried about the XD event now. It's too late now to come up with another pair. They have XX/LSW only. They're having so much headache over whether LSW should play in 3 events.
      Last edited by zeio; 12-20-2019 at 05:24 AM.

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      Hamasaki_Fanz is offline
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      My insider told me that the additional 2 would be ZZH (who cant attend the qualification due to grand final) and ZJK

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      Quote Originally Posted by zeio View Post
      From past experience, the rules would limit participation only to teams who have yet to obtain a quota. It's likely China won't get to send a team for continental qualification.

      Also, the "REALLOCATION OF UNUSED QUALIFICATION PLACES" states that "any unused quota obtained at the WTGF 2019/WT 2020 will be reallocated to the next best-placed eligible mixed doubles pair, not yet qualified, from the May 2020 ITTF Olympic Mixed Doubles Ranking list."

      According to LGL's interview, the 2 pairs they sent for WTTC 2019 were the strongest. So, FZD/DN is the backup pair but it is not working out as the pair has stopped playing after losing to Harimoto/Hayata in Japan Open.

      That's why LGL is most worried about the XD event now. It's too late now to come up with another pair. They have XX/LSW only. They're having so much headache over whether LSW should play in 3 events.
      2024 = watershed year?

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      Quote Originally Posted by zeio View Post
      From past experience, the rules would limit participation only to teams who have yet to obtain a quota. It's likely China won't get to send a team for continental qualification.

      Also, the "REALLOCATION OF UNUSED QUALIFICATION PLACES" states that "any unused quota obtained at the WTGF 2019/WT 2020 will be reallocated to the next best-placed eligible mixed doubles pair, not yet qualified, from the May 2020 ITTF Olympic Mixed Doubles Ranking list."

      According to LGL's interview, the 2 pairs they sent for WTTC 2019 were the strongest. So, FZD/DN is the backup pair but it is not working out as the pair has stopped playing after losing to Harimoto/Hayata in Japan Open.

      That's why LGL is most worried about the XD event now. It's too late now to come up with another pair. They have XX/LSW only. They're having so much headache over whether LSW should play in 3 events.

      Seems like a headache, yes! You are right. For singles it is possible to "wait" until May to confirm. Han Ying and Timo Boll are not confirmed in singles after European Games (!). The mix doubles must for sure be different! They have 15 days to confirm. If they don't confirm, they will have to qualify in another contest as a pair. Would any NA/NOC take that gamble? To not confirm the first qualified mix pair, to get in another?

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      zeio is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Mytoman View Post
      Seems like a headache, yes! You are right. For singles it is possible to "wait" until May to confirm. Han Ying and Timo Boll are not confirmed in singles after European Games (!). The mix doubles must for sure be different! They have 15 days to confirm. If they don't confirm, they will have to qualify in another contest as a pair. Would any NA/NOC take that gamble? To not confirm the first qualified mix pair, to get in another?
      Right. Germany won the team quota and that guarantees them 2 singles spot, so they're in no hurry and could wait it out. Not for XD. Franziska/Solja were confirmed literally the next day. Same deal for China and the rest.

      In this clip of a sports program on the 20th, CCTV reporter Li Wujun talks about the "15 days to confirm" rule.
      Last edited by zeio; 12-20-2019 at 04:22 PM.

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      Anyone know date/time and the venue for this match Marvellous 12 2020?

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      2020/1/1-4, Shenzhen, Luohu Gymnasium.

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      Quote Originally Posted by zeio View Post
      From past experience, the rules would limit participation only to teams who have yet to obtain a quota. It's likely China won't get to send a team for continental qualification.

      Also, the "REALLOCATION OF UNUSED QUALIFICATION PLACES" states that "any unused quota obtained at the WTGF 2019/WT 2020 will be reallocated to the next best-placed eligible mixed doubles pair, not yet qualified, from the May 2020 ITTF Olympic Mixed Doubles Ranking list."

      According to LGL's interview, the 2 pairs they sent for WTTC 2019 were the strongest. So, FZD/DN is the backup pair but it is not working out as the pair has stopped playing after losing to Harimoto/Hayata in Japan Open.

      That's why LGL is most worried about the XD event now. It's too late now to come up with another pair. They have XX/LSW only. They're having so much headache over whether LSW should play in 3 events.
      Stopping FZD/DN from playing wasn't an optimal move, they lost to Hina/Tomo and so what?, They simply have to prepare harder, communicate better, work out a synergy and keep going at it, All of Japan players that are forerunners for the Olympics weren't so strong from the start, they lost, learned, lost, and became stronger by learning.
      I understand that if the pair kept playing, they'd most likely have not been as successful as XinWen Lianbo, but Even thought they lost to Xinwen at the WTTC Semis, But with LSW saying the pair were neck to neck, I suspect FZD/ DN will have gotten titles of their own too, But with XX/ LSW winning all the majors, It's not hard for the team to quickly decide they don't need any other pair , Since the Olympics starts with the mixed doubles, Liu would still be at okay to play her best, It's the team which I suppose comes last that they'd have to make some concessions for, probably using Shasha if her fitness isn't top notch

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      Quote Originally Posted by Shine View Post
      Stopping FZD/DN from playing wasn't an optimal move, they lost to Hina/Tomo and so what?, They simply have to prepare harder, communicate better, work out a synergy and keep going at it, All of Japan players that are forerunners for the Olympics weren't so strong from the start, they lost, learned, lost, and became stronger by learning.
      I understand that if the pair kept playing, they'd most likely have not been as successful as XinWen Lianbo, but Even thought they lost to Xinwen at the WTTC Semis, But with LSW saying the pair were neck to neck, I suspect FZD/ DN will have gotten titles of their own too, But with XX/ LSW winning all the majors, It's not hard for the team to quickly decide they don't need any other pair , Since the Olympics starts with the mixed doubles, Liu would still be at okay to play her best, It's the team which I suppose comes last that they'd have to make some concessions for, probably using Shasha if her fitness isn't top notch

      I think the problem is that Xu Xin is a bigger force than Ding Ning. They also didn't take the singles prospects of Liu Shiwen seriously early enough. If they knew who the 3rd player on the women's team was, they could have done that a long time ago. Unfortunately, Chen Meng bombed out, Sun Yingsha and Wang Manyu are callow and Zhu Yuling is persona non grata.

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      Now it’s official. The 11th and 12th players are indeed ZZH and MaTe (a chopper)

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      Quote Originally Posted by Shine View Post
      Stopping FZD/DN from playing wasn't an optimal move, they lost to Hina/Tomo and so what?, They simply have to prepare harder, communicate better, work out a synergy and keep going at it, All of Japan players that are forerunners for the Olympics weren't so strong from the start, they lost, learned, lost, and became stronger by learning.
      I understand that if the pair kept playing, they'd most likely have not been as successful as XinWen Lianbo, but Even thought they lost to Xinwen at the WTTC Semis, But with LSW saying the pair were neck to neck, I suspect FZD/ DN will have gotten titles of their own too, But with XX/ LSW winning all the majors, It's not hard for the team to quickly decide they don't need any other pair , Since the Olympics starts with the mixed doubles, Liu would still be at okay to play her best, It's the team which I suppose comes last that they'd have to make some concessions for, probably using Shasha if her fitness isn't top notch
      I agree that the CNT should have looked for other options earlier. But I agree with their decision to drop FZD/DN as a pair also. Watching their play, it's clear to me they don't gel as a pair.

      FZD's preferred playstyle is close to the table, despite being very strong behind the table. You see in his doubles play (not just XD, but also with MD with XX) that he makes a lot more errors from the back when playing in doubles than you would expect him to make on the same shot in singles. The doubles skill set is fundamentally different from singles in that there is a lot more focus on getting out of the way for your partner, and less on keeping accurate track of the ball at all times. FZD is at his core, not a great doubles player. He has strong TT fundamentals, so he is still serviceable to good, but he's not comparable to XX.

      On DNs end, her age really starts to show in doubles, where she is just not able to get out of the way in doubles quick enough. This is a big problem for FZD, as it pushes him back behind the table as he can't depend on DN to vacate the position for his movement. In addition, she sometimes blocks vision of the ball for her partner further behind the table, so they have to find the ball again after losing vision of the ball momentarily, making life very difficult for someone at the back.

      While both players have great fundamentals, and this takes them some distance alone, against stiff competition this is just not good enough. In addition, DN is not getting any younger, and FZD is expected to carry the torch of men's singles, so it's unreasonable for him to adjust his entire game for doubles.

      So I think, the CNT does need to look for other options, but DN/FZD probably isn't a good one.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Hysteresis View Post
      I agree that the CNT should have looked for other options earlier. But I agree with their decision to drop FZD/DN as a pair also. Watching their play, it's clear to me they don't gel as a pair.

      FZD's preferred playstyle is close to the table, despite being very strong behind the table. You see in his doubles play (not just XD, but also with MD with XX) that he makes a lot more errors from the back when playing in doubles than you would expect him to make on the same shot in singles. The doubles skill set is fundamentally different from singles in that there is a lot more focus on getting out of the way for your partner, and less on keeping accurate track of the ball at all times. FZD is at his core, not a great doubles player. He has strong TT fundamentals, so he is still serviceable to good, but he's not comparable to XX.

      On DNs end, her age really starts to show in doubles, where she is just not able to get out of the way in doubles quick enough. This is a big problem for FZD, as it pushes him back behind the table as he can't depend on DN to vacate the position for his movement. In addition, she sometimes blocks vision of the ball for her partner further behind the table, so they have to find the ball again after losing vision of the ball momentarily, making life very difficult for someone at the back.

      While both players have great fundamentals, and this takes them some distance alone, against stiff competition this is just not good enough. In addition, DN is not getting any younger, and FZD is expected to carry the torch of men's singles, so it's unreasonable for him to adjust his entire game for doubles.

      So I think, the CNT does need to look for other options, but DN/FZD probably isn't a good one.
      Wang Chuqin and Sun Yingsha is probably the only viable alternative but you know the problem with that already... I think the issue is if you want to replace Liu Shiwen, who do you replace her with? And since they can't have XX and Sun Yingsha play against XX and Liu Shiwen, they are in a bit of a bind. There aren't any other top lady lefties in the CNT after Ding Ning, so the massive dropoff there gives them another bind.

      The bottom line is that LSW is playing 3 events I think.

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