Stiff 5 ply wood, does it exist?

Carl,

Unfortunately this one is too far down the rabbit hole to be pulled back. Also, he already has the SK7.

all this talk about EJs!
Anyway umm, may I suggest DHS Hurricane-WL (Wang Liqin)

UpSideDownCarl said:

I am always interested to see when, on my profile message board, it says that if you leave me a profile message, I will not see it till months later, how people still seem to leave them and then I delete them.

MOG, V+, V'King, I personally think you can use any blade. I think you have been EJing to such an extent that, if you used a blade that was a good fit, you would be on to the next setup before you ever realized you had been using a blade that was really good for you.

Choose something, anything, and stick with it. The blade is not what does the playing. You do. A blade will not significantly change your level. Your thinking you played really well with a certain setup because you beat someone, this is folly. Choose a setup. Stick with it for a year. Then we can talk.

BTW: you have asked me about V+ and V'King before on at least 3 separate occasions. I definitely would not give you the answer now that I gave you then. But I see no actual reason to give you an answer on either blade. Because there is no answer for the EJ virus. And what you are asking is not actually what you think you are asking. Only you can cure yourself.

By the way, for the record, I think you can see what my profile says I use. I also think you know I own both a V'King and the blade it says I use in my profile. And the blade it says I use, is still the blade I use.

Train. Practice. Develop your technique, your footwork. If you use SP, use them like SP. Don't use them to mask a weakness in returning serves and then try to use them as though they are smooth for the rest of the rally. Forget about changing equipment and learn to use the equipment you use.

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well said, well said indeed

I think that you need to decide a little more What to focus on. Forehand or baxkhand. Hard to find a blade that is good for both inverted or short pimple.

And like i Said you can adjust with rubbers. I have tb zlc that is very Good for smashing But not as good for loooping i think so try to compensate with not having the hardest inverted rubber.

Also think like Carl that it could be more or less techniqe aswell.

Then my final advice for you is to buy a second force blade then save the money. I think your equipment sounds good. Just stop buying more things now.

Equipment affect your game But i think as long as the blade are not rockhard you can create spin well.

You seem very motivated and i Do not how you train so i Do not want to be rude here But i feel it seems a little like you want to find a short cut to get more spin.

Use your current racket, it is good! Then work on creating more spin with the technique instead. Really good players can get great spin as long as it is grip in the rubber.

Try closing the angle, brush more, thinner and accelerate/snap the forearm

If you Do not feel that you are getting better at it. Then buy your now big pool of saved money from not buying equipment to find a coach or a better player that could be interested in helping you.

Maybe you can post a video of your looping here.

I think it is time to move the focus from equipment to technique.

Looking forward for this adventure!!

MOG said:

Ok I will post a video of me looping. There might be something fundamentally wrong with my looping. It would be fair to say I only learnt to loop in last 4 or 5 years.
Previous to that I always flat hit everything!!

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This is not the way it is works. Everyone caps out at a specific level where the amount of training they need to improve or to maintain their best level is only possible I'd they are pro or semi-pro. If you are really serious about improvement it is going to come down to relentless practice and analysis of your game play and technique and improving all those. But it is easier and possibly more fun to EJ.

yogi_bear said:

In MOG's case which he is kinda particular on a blade, he should just try a lot of blades to see which he will like.

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The issue with this is, he already has tried a lot of blades, wait, A LOT OF BLADES. And it is pretty common for him to try a setup, beat someone who he does not always beat and then think it was the blade instead of him having a good day. So now he gets that setup, only to find, 2 weeks later, that the shine has worn off and then he tries something else and wins against another player he sometimes struggles with, and then this is the new holy grail of setups....well, for the next few weeks.

And then he says he does not want to EJ too much because he has kids and does not spend $$ irresponsibly. But then, 3 weeks later, he has found a new bling, or the shine on the old one has worn off.

I think MOG has tried enough blades to choose one that he tried and stick with it. I don't mean this to be harsh even though it sounds it. I just don't think the issue is the equipment and the more we dance around the real issue by actually talking about equipment, the more we do a disservice to him.

MOG is a good player who wants a magical fix to an issue that is technique and practice related. If I was going to give him a real assessment, I would say he should switch back to smooth rubber and learn to return serves with his BH, OR, he should stick with SP and learn to use them like SP and not try to use them like smooth while compensating for footwork on return of serve on BH side.

Either solution would be fine. But I think how MOG is approaching the situation is really giving himself some emotional and self confidence issues.

NextLevel said:

This is not the way it is works. Everyone caps out at a specific level where the amount of training they need to improve or to maintain their best level is only possible I'd they are pro or semi-pro. If you are really serious about improvement it is going to come down to relentless practice and analysis of your game play and technique and improving all those. But it is easier and possibly more fun to EJ.

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MOG said:

My biggest problem is still return of serve and service.
I have seen 12 year old's who played a year return serve better than me.

My return of serve is like Bottom Division local league.
My own serve is like bottom division local league.

The rest of my game is Top division local league.

There is no way I have maxed out on my potential yet, no way. I lose 90% of my games by 2 or 3 points or maybe 4 points. In 99.9% of sets i play i do this. If i returned 2 or 3 more serves a set and dropped 1 or 2 unforced errors I would improve massively.

I make more unforced errors than any Division player I have ever seen.

I return on average 40 - 50% of my opponents serves. Most of these serves are illegal but lets not go there again.

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The footwork and the return of serve are not separate. I have seen you try to return many many serves on BH side, at your switching point by moving your arm and not your feet. And then the result is a poor shot or a miss. I have also seen you reach wide for many serve returns on BH side without moving your feet with similar results.

To get your feet moving before the serve, it takes practice. When you watch high level players, when the opponent tosses the ball, they start moving. Often that is that they go from very low to higher, and while they do that, they start moving to where the serve is going. Lots of amateurs, while the opponent is tossing the ball for the serve, they are standing low, but flat footed and don't try to move till after the ball is heading towards them, WHICH IS actually TOO LATE.

It takes practice to start moving on the toss. But it is much easier to move your feet when they are already moving than to go from flat footed to moving your feet.

And I agree, your rally skills are pretty decent. Your serve and receive need work. I am curious why you never do different serves like pendulum, tomahawk or others rather than that serve you do from the FH side most of the time. I would work on new serves and I would work on return of serves.

I do think, if you focused on those two things, your game skill level would increase pretty noticeably. And I promise blade and rubbers won't increase your skill at return of serves even if SP help you get more serves on the table, the skill in your hand has not changed as a result of the rubber.

So, if I was you, that is what I would focus on. Then you can treat your kids to more nice things since you won't need the extra money for more new TT equipment.

My daughter really appreciates that my TT addiction does not stop me from coming home with surprises for her when I want.

MOG said:

My biggest problem is still return of serve and service.
I have seen 12 year old's who played a year return serve better than me.

My return of serve is like Bottom Division local league.
My own serve is like bottom division local league.

The rest of my game is Top division local league.

....

I return on average 40 - 50% of my opponents serves. Most of these serves are illegal but lets not go there again.

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Drill serve and serve return non-stop then.

MOG said:

My biggest problem is still return of serve and service.
I have seen 12 year old's who played a year return serve better than me.

My return of serve is like Bottom Division local league.
My own serve is like bottom division local league.

The rest of my game is Top division local league.

There is no way I have maxed out on my potential yet, no way. I lose 90% of my games by 2 or 3 points or maybe 4 points. In 99.9% of sets i play i do this. If i returned 2 or 3 more serves a set and dropped 1 or 2 unforced errors I would improve massively.

I make more unforced errors than any Division player I have ever seen.

I return on average 40 - 50% of my opponents serves. Most of these serves are illegal but lets not go there again.

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I do think you could benefit from a more hard nosed analysis of your game. Since serve and return of serve are the two most frequently used shots in the game, there is no point if your game is high quality if the two most important shots that you use on every single point andn which influence your ability to get other shots are under practiced and low quality. It took years of serve work to get to a level where I could beat a certain level.of player just by serving and it insulated my.results against wild variability.

On the flip side, my return of serve, partly because I am an adult learner who doesn't intuitively read spin, is a bit behind the rest of my game. That said, I know I need to invest a week of intensive coaching on it at some point. It isn't just the return of serve but the anticipation to play the point out when the return is not perfect. Also where to place the ball.in general and when to stay at the table.and when to step back.

In any case your post reveals a lot, as it is unlikely that the equipment you use is playing such a huge role in serve and serve return and you never ask about it with that focus. Yet it is exactly the focus on serve and serve return that usually separates better players from intermediate players.

MOG said:

To be honest some days I return serves quite well, a lot better than others. I am not sure what the connects bad serve return days and good ones.

TBH I think I return better on good modern new tables, because the opponents spin bites more which gives you a lot more indication of spin.

Carl some days I do not move at all on serve receive, other days I am better.

Perhaps I am more affected by tiredness or my mood than I realise, I am not sure.

It is all very fascinating really.

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Ever heard of the concepts of variance/standard deviation and regression to the mean? As in that you don't play the same way all the time but good days are often followed by a return to the average and bad days by a return to the average?

Practice more, the rest is irrelevant.

That doesn't change my belief since I know what I'm talking about. There's no perfect handle, you SHOULD know this by now. No blade or rubber can compensate for lack of practice. There's no skill embedded in a blade or rubber that will come out when you use it. There's no shortcut. Why do you think the Chinese practice 5-7 hours a day?

You think I'm joking that Waldner can beat us with a book? That actually happened, to a journalist here in Sweden and it's on youtube. Waldner almost beat the guy with a frigging banana! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ed9eL1VPiiM

MOG said:

I disagree RidtheKid

Handle comfort is a massive factor in blade selection. If the blade is annoying you its going to affect your concentration.

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If a handle will make you perform better due to comfort why not search for it. To each his own. Every person has his own preference.

Very true. But what's the name of this thread? Is it about handles or...? The answer is that there will seemingly always be another issue that bothers the gentleman who started this thread regarding equipment and I think that is masking the real problem which is too little practice or wrong kind of practice. Instead of getting to the bottom of the problem people are giving advice what blade or rubber to get when in fact the only thing in the world that will make you a better player is practice. Sure it's not my business but this is a forum where things are discussed and this specific thread got me triggered. At the club we rarely talk equipment and to me that feels like a professional approach.

RidTheKid said:

The answer is that there will seemingly always be another issue that bothers the gentleman who started this thread regarding equipment and I think that is masking the real problem which is too little practice or wrong kind of practice.

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I am not even sure the problem is too little practice. It may be. I definitely think the remedy is training and practice, so I think, RTK, you are very close to the issue, and therefore, mostly right. But I have a feeling there are hints of the real issue in this comment:

MOG said:

I have been looking back at some videos and thinking and maybe I have just had a bad few weeks. Tired, crap old tables always affect me.

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I think, in this, you can see some of the real problem which is also why I point towards the psychological rather than something else. When MOG loses he blames it on something: equipment, tables, floors, conditions. No need to examine that the other player is subject to the same conditions.

Now I do understand some players are affected by conditions more than others. And that, usually this is the result of TRAINING, or lack thereof. So, regardless of the underlying issue, I do think the remedy is still practice and training. Not the racket, not the rubbers, not the floor, not the tables, the remedy is better training strategies.

So, here is the real question at hand:

MOG, if you were to quantify time spent on:

1) match play
2) training and well thought out strategies to improve on the aspects of your game that you have long known are holding you back
3) working with a coach

How much time per week would you say you spend on each? Do you spend any time on trying to train and improve the issues you have known for quite a while are holding you back?

If you were spending 3/4 of your time on training and 1/4 of your time on match play, for the things you have going on, my guess is, the issues about equipment would start to go away.

I am pretty sure you don't work with a coach and I understand the $$$ constraints. But it would probably cost less to get a little coaching than it costs you to keep changing equipment every few weeks. However, with good training partners, you can probably get around this. So, I do think that part is up to you. It is just finding and cultivating the training partner or partners: others who also want to work on their weaknesses and improve just as you do.

In the end we all do this for fun. But a little investment OF TIME on improving the things that need improving would save you a lot of money on equipment.

MOG, it is you who make the spin, not the table.
Tables are different and even the top class tier 1 tables differ between brands and models. They differ in bounce and sound and grip, but All tables are hard enough to keep the spin. Only a soft surface can change the spin, but tables are not soft.
I continue to think that your main problem is the grip, due to which its so hard for you to find your dream set up.
And it affects your play too. Stick to what you feel most comfortable and give it enough time to fit.

And see companies 729 model A2 - cheap stiff very good feeling. It costs pennies and works great in the game. I played very rich and cheap blades and there is no difference in them


Although Gewo X force has a very good feeling and the stiffness you write