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  1. TTW is offline
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    #21
    Quote Originally Posted by passifid
    My man, the streams ARE much higher quality, it is only the youtube video that is this bad. Maybe they're not perfect but a LOT better PQ and FPS than YT replays
    Yes, I can vouch for that. The streams are HQ but youtube videos are low quality.
    No idea why low quality on ITTF website. I hope it can be changed.

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    #22
    The stream this weekend however sucks, only 15 fps or so...

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    #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Fabian
    The stream this weekend however sucks, only 15 fps or so...
    Yeah the resolution is okay and even the bitrate is ok, but the frames are way too low.

    I don't know why there's always something wrong with ITTF's stream instead of continuously improving and learning from previous mistakes.

    It's like I'm watching on an old PC which is way too slow to render the images of the flash stream, but I'm watching with a Chromecast which is capable of 1080p60fps.

    Just a sad affair in general.

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    #24
    It's weird that the actual matches are poor quality, but the points of the day or highlights are HQ like in:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JT4h4-e_qps
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHkScO6CmQk

  5. Der_Echte is offline
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    #25
    Quote Originally Posted by bricec
    Could be pixels, could be grain as well (which would be related to lightning), but as I'm absolutely no expert I'll back down right now :-)
    When there was only 180 lux on Table 1 at L.A> Open 2018, the pics I took with a cell phone made the hall look like 1000 lux super bright. The camera had an auto aperture adjustment for the pics.

    Bad vid quality and framerate is low bandwidth. USATT Media and TTD member Matt Hetherington ought to chime in and break it down.

    If USATT can produce a quality live stream, it is possible ITTF could do so as well, there is another thing or two at play that having their live stream so crappy. It is simply a matter of resource allocation.. or lack of.
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    #26
    Quote Originally Posted by yoass
    Mmm. A single Mac Pro would be more than adequate, I don’t think such excuses convincing.
    Are you sober? The quality depends on bandwidth and if the bandwith is low the video will be choppy and grainy its because ittf is not paying enough

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    #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Murre5
    This is not about lights etc. Just look at this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDlVZak2NRc

    The video is pixelated all the time, which is because of low bitrate. The FPS is hacky so it's meant to be 50fps but the frames just aren't there to provide 50fps.

    And this is probably the most popular match of the whole tournament, the best european player in their home country playing against FZD, the top candidate for the olympics probably.

    Imagine this quality in an el classico, people would go mad. Barcelona vs Real Madrid without being able to see anything clearly.

    This makes it a bad experience to follow table tennis online and it really is to bad that this is the case in 2020.

    The sad legacy of sharara weikert board ..bad written articles low quality videos etc dont be surprised why table tennis is not popular

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    #28
    Quote Originally Posted by smash into net
    It's weird that the actual matches are poor quality, but the points of the day or highlights are HQ like in:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JT4h4-e_qps
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHkScO6CmQk
    And interviews as well.
    I am sure they do have HQ footage for sure.

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    #29
    Quote Originally Posted by bbkon
    The sad legacy of sharara weikert board ..bad written articles low quality videos etc dont be surprised why table tennis is not popular
    If they improve the quality of videos, I am sure lot of people will get attracted.

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    #30
    In the end there were a couple of really nice 1080p60 points of the day and replays in the interviews there. Also the semifinal/final quality seems to be better. It’s almost certain bandwidth problem (since previous days there were more matches to transfer)

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    #31
    i just think they use the cameras that are preinstalled in some particular locations... the quality is not bad because of the resolution of 720p. it is the bad lighting all around and probably very old cameras

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    #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Tango K
    In the end there were a couple of really nice 1080p60 points of the day and replays in the interviews there. Also the semifinal/final quality seems to be better. It’s almost certain bandwidth problem (since previous days there were more matches to transfer)
    Guess what "Good" Bandwidth costs and just take a blind guess at the resources ITTF tosses that way, make your decision, and make you bet with a wager of one bad of Cheeze-its... you will likely be eating some free cheeze-its.
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    #33
    Quote Originally Posted by bbkon
    Are you sober? The quality depends on bandwidth and if the bandwith is low the video will be choppy and grainy its because ittf is not paying enough
    A lot of us in the sport of Table Tennis have been so damn drunk not to see obvious common sense Physics/Econ 101 no-shyt Sherlock kind of root cause analysis that a 6 yr old could do reliably... and most of these types are in leadership positions in our sport.

    TTD Matt Hetherington in now freed up from his obligations that kept his mouth triple duck taped and may freely inform you of exactly how right you are. Even so, on his watch, the USATT seemed to toss a few more percent of resources that way for major events in USA TT tourneys and did not seem to have those issues in the same magnitude or frequency.
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    #34
    I completely agree. The quality is not very good compared to other TT channels. I'm not sure if it has something to do with equipment or man power. Maybe the funds are not enough to do any upgrades at the moment. But it is frustrating to watch majority of them in lower quality.

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    #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Der_Echte

    USATT Media and TTD member Matt Hetherington ought to chime in and break it down.
    Just TTD Member now haha. The thread topic did catch my eye. Let me break some things down for you.

    - Firstly USATT had high quality streams because we used the same equipment and team for streaming and David Del Vecchio has 4k cameras and an incredibly good setup, this for USATT was a massive highlight and I genuinely think we had the best table tennis stream in the world. I always hoped we could reform the US Open to get more international players - the idea of having the best players in the world competing in front of 4k livestreams made me buzz. With ITTF their disadvantage is that they cannot have this kind of consistency, each hosting nation arranges streaming, and has restrictions with venue, lighting and particularly bandwidth in the smaller events like the challenge series or challenge plus. You need a very good hardline connection with good bandwidth to create a high quality stream with good stability. I believe this is something ITTF will be addressing as World Table Tennis is unloaded in 2021 and it is something I have spoken with Matt Pound about a little and he has confirmed that there will be greater efforts on that front.

    - Secondly, ITTF has to make a tough decision between timeliness and quality. Most of the matches they want highlights to be uploaded quickly and this is something the audience demands from them. The offset of that is the lower quality, I believe they use software to cut the video out and edit it in real-time so they can deliver it quicker. In order to really mimic the same high level of quality in the stream you have to wait until the stream ends and then download it directly from the hard drive connected to the stream, this is a very lengthy process and would have to be done at the end of the day. So there are tradeoffs, you could very well end up with highlights being uploaded well into the following day when people are already focusing on the next matches.

    - The cost of livestreaming at high quality is fairly significant. I spoke with ITTF at the 2019 WTTC about why they weren't streaming across more tables. They had 4 in the main hall and 4 in the 2nd hall. The cost of adding just one additional table per day was astronomical, so the investment to produce the streams in HD is very high - they would require I think more sponsorship and resources but also I think it will be important for them with WTT to set rigorous standards for the presentation of their events.

    All in all this has been an issue for a long time, and of course while I was with USATT managing the livestreams and media it was a gloating point for me because our stream was better than ITTF's, however I have seen improvements - for example table 1 at wttc 2019 had I believe 17 cameras connected to it's stream - really unbelievable stuff. I am hoping that World Table Tennis 2021 really brings something new to this area with ITTF and we start to see some significant improvements, and of course if I am on the inside loop by then I will be doing my best to address this kind of thing too if I can help with it.

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    #36
    Thx matt,

    I knew if I said sum wild things you would come through and set the historical record straight with facts and analysis, not to mention comparisons with similar operations.

    However, I did get it right on post #33 your status. Keep causing trouble for us !!

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    #37
    Yes yes

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    #38
    There is nothing stopping ITTF from uploading the high quality captures off the hard drive after the fact to youtube. There are probably editing software that saves its editing points that can reproduce the edited footage on the high quality video data. Someone familiar with live video editing please chime in. Something doesn't add up.

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    #39
    They don't even cut the highlights videos themselves anymore.
    The let ttlondon2012 and malongfanmadechannel edit the videos. (and then we end up with videos where they sometimes skip 40% of all points, but it seems nobody cares but me )

    And these two seem to either grab the stream directly or just get the recorded stream video, not the good quality, high bitrate/fps one that ends up on the disks of their recording team.

    These high bitrate/fps videos only get used for the ITTF edited interview videos and DHS/complete tournament highlight/best points videos as one can clearly see.

    I'm daydreaming of asking ITTF if I could record matches for them from the sideline with my own equipment. Particular group stage matches where they sometimes don't even record or have absolutely horrific quality.

    Example Wang Chuqin vs Ma Long | 2020 ITTF Qatar Open Highlights (R16) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLRPWP_jXA0
    My comment under that video:
    It truly saddens me that this epic game, which could've been THE game with the best rallies of the whole tournament, is forever lost in the 20 fps recording of a cheap webcam from the '90s.

    Even I could stream with my 1080p60fps DSLR with a HDMI/USB3.0 capture card and a laptop, provided the venue does have the necessary bandwidth and I could later upload self edited 4k 60 fps highlights from my smartphone.

    But then Corona happened and I don't think they want non-essential personnel at the next tournaments.

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    #40
    A little question - how do you watch videos of high quality on the ITTF page? It redirects to tv.ittf.com, but the quality is really really bad, even though I change it to "high". On full screen it's like a 480p video on youtube.

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