Changing from the Viscaria to the Long 5x

DaLooper · Feb 10, 2020

Hello, my Viscaria is getting very old (4+ years), viscaria suits my playstyle alot, I use the the Hurricane 3 Provincial Blue Sponge in my forehand, tenergy 05-fx on my backhand, but I want to change things up, I do not wish to buy a new Viscaria. I am thinking of getting DHS Hurricane Long 5x. Does anyone have any suggestions, any tips would help

Basten4 · Feb 10, 2020

I switched from Long 3 to Viscaria. Long 3 is faster than Viscaria, and Long 5 is faster than Long 3.
Handle on Viscaria is a lot more comfortable for me.
Long 3 had amazing feeling when you hit the ball due to outer layer being limba wood vs koto wood on Viscaria. I personally prefer feeling of Long 3. I think Long 5 has same composition + carbon.
Long 3 is heavier than Viscaria, and Long 5 is heavier than Long 3.
Just some opinions and things to consider.
Good luck.

DaLooper · Feb 10, 2020

Thanks for the info, Do you feel like you have more control with the Long 3 or Viscaria? Which one of the blades would you say have higher vibration?

Basten4 · Feb 10, 2020

DaLooper said:
Thanks for the info, Do you feel like you have more control with the Long 3 or Viscaria? Which one of the blades would you say have higher vibration?

I think Long 3 gives you better feedback, but Viscaria is very good too. More control in short game with Viscaria, Long 3 is slightly better away from the table. I will depend on your rubber as well though. H3 may fit very well with DHS.
I have 2 viscarias now and selling my Long 3. I'll be honest with you, I think unless you are playing on a very high level, you don't need Long 5, its going to be too fast.

zizka · Feb 10, 2020

Do not change the blade if it is really necessary. For 4+ years, you are already accustomed to your Vis.
These are completely different blades. You will need to adjust your technique.

best_intentions · Feb 11, 2020

I went from Viscaria (87g) to the DHS HL5x (90g) and liked the change a lot. FH vega pro BH T05 on both blades.

The HL5x feels stiffer, and in most ways it has less vibration than the Viscaria. This might be due to the thickness and/or the thickness of the core.

On regular FH or BH drives it has a woody feel, and as you increase power the 'catapult' comes into play and as you get into flying loops, counterlooping close or away from table the speed of HL5x is faster than Viscaria. It has more 'put-away-power' than viscaria (87g)...perhaps 90g+ would be different.

The positive is that the catapult feeling really helps with spin production if you have a good stroke. Brushing Chinese style or euro style both are fine. If you spin everything you will not have problems. I can see this as being a negative if you are more of an all-around player or your footwork / timing is off and you are not able to spin the ball consistently. Pure flat hitting is not the blade's strong suit.

Short game and soft shots I think this is slightly slower and more linear than the Viscaria. I find touch shots and pushes easier. I also find in slightly defensive situations where you are looking to put sidespin, backspin just trying to keep the ball on the table low and short or low and deep easier than the Viscaria

Passive blocking against powerful loops, the Viscaria feels easier/better. Active blocking the HL5x is better.

In the end I'd say the HL5x is faster blade by a couple of notches and more linear in it's feel/speed. Currently I am using T05 on FH and Vega X on BH.

Baal · Feb 11, 2020

Here's what is quite likely to happen. At first it will feel really different. Some things will feel better, others worse. Over time you adjust after a few struggles. And then your level will be........

Exactly what it was before.

And then on to the next.

It's not you. It's everybody.

(Likely outcome, not for certain outcome).

Baal · Feb 11, 2020

To which I add that for some people going through that cycle and satisfying curiosity is half the fun of the sport. Or more. Since most of us play for fun and are not paid to win, and if that describes you, then you should try it out. I bought a few blades that way myself. Just have realistic expectations. I learned to let my EJ clubmates buy new blades and then I would hit with them. Saved time and money.

Basten4 · Feb 11, 2020

I tried Innerforce layer ALC today, very good blade.

slevin · Feb 11, 2020

IMHO, if you want to switch, please do not go for the HL5X. It is nowhere as good as HL5 (which is already more powerful than Viscaria). The only thing better is the W968.

Creek · Feb 11, 2020

Really interessting that in this thread so many are saying that HL5 is faster than Viscaria...
For me HL5 is slower by several notches. Innerforce style with 2nd layer ayous (as HL5 has) is almost impossible to be quicker than a Koto outerlayer carbon blade (like Viscaria).
The reason for Ma Long to play W968 / HL5 is not the pace it gives him, but the control. The power he has in his shots is mainly produced by his enormous swings.
Fan Zhendong e.g. has a shorter swing and gets the same power with a quicker blade (Viscaria)

Keven702 · Feb 11, 2020

Creek said:
The reason for Ma Long to play W968 / HL5 is not the pace it gives him, but the control. The power he has in his shots is mainly produced by his enormous swings.
Fan Zhendong e.g. has a shorter swing and gets the same power with a quicker blade (Viscaria)

Some truth in your reasoning but the real reason ma long has such powerful forehand is because he uses his legs and hips to generate power from the ground.

Its a myth that short swing = less power , yes it will be probably weaker if you just using your arm but if you are using your whole body it definitely be stronger that just using your arm.

Also fzd is heavier set man who has a low center of gravity , so a short quick swing could generate alot of pace on the ball . think of mike tyson throwing a punch vs floyd mayweather

Creek · Feb 11, 2020

anyway, still HL5 is much slower than Viscaria

But for sure you're right. I was cutting down the reasons obviously

Keven702 · Feb 12, 2020

Yes, sorry, your reasoning for why the blade is slower seems correct . I havent slept in over 24 hour so my brain just took a rocket ship to middle of no where haha

DaLooper · Feb 12, 2020

best_intentions said:
I went from Viscaria (87g) to the DHS HL5x (90g) and liked the change a lot. FH vega pro BH T05 on both blades.

The HL5x feels stiffer, and in most ways it has less vibration than the Viscaria. This might be due to the thickness and/or the thickness of the core.

On regular FH or BH drives it has a woody feel, and as you increase power the 'catapult' comes into play and as you get into flying loops, counterlooping close or away from table the speed of HL5x is faster than Viscaria. It has more 'put-away-power' than viscaria (87g)...perhaps 90g+ would be different.

The positive is that the catapult feeling really helps with spin production if you have a good stroke. Brushing Chinese style or euro style both are fine. If you spin everything you will not have problems. I can see this as being a negative if you are more of an all-around player or your footwork / timing is off and you are not able to spin the ball consistently. Pure flat hitting is not the blade's strong suit.

Short game and soft shots I think this is slightly slower and more linear than the Viscaria. I find touch shots and pushes easier. I also find in slightly defensive situations where you are looking to put sidespin, backspin just trying to keep the ball on the table low and short or low and deep easier than the Viscaria

Passive blocking against powerful loops, the Viscaria feels easier/better. Active blocking the HL5x is better.

In the end I'd say the HL5x is faster blade by a couple of notches and more linear in it's feel/speed. Currently I am using T05 on FH and Vega X on BH.

Thanks for the info, also how are the forehand and backhand flicks(chiquita) off opponent serves with the Long 5x? These are crucial in my matches since many of my points end there.
Also would appreciate your feedback against choppers, if you played any.

best_intentions · Feb 12, 2020

With the Long 5x the BH flicks are more direct and lower trajectory and slightly faster with the same *aggressive* stroke and rubbers. It is a bit stiffer than the viscaria so you need to just go right through ball. It's a difference in feel.

FH flicks off serves I don't do too often with underspin. If it is dead ball or sidespin again you might notice the slightly stiffer feel a bit more. BH it is a bit easier to get power from the wrist so on FH side Viscaria might be faster for flicks...however on FH side I mostly doing hard chops rather than flicking unless the serve is high over the net.

I've played LP choppers but do not have a chopper as a training partner and the Viscaria handles that a bit better. The normal HL 5 which is a bit more flexy might also do better with that if you are talking about 'ease of use'.

HL5x would be more suited to the so-called "modern" game with harder rubbers, stiffer feel...where you play off-the-bounce and counterlooping in general. It will have more speed and produce deeper, lower trajectory shots, as opposed to higher arcing loops. Certainly making higher arcing loops with HL 5x is just fine adjusting your stroke and amount of spin, but it is not its strong suit.

UpSideDownCarl · Feb 12, 2020

Baal said:
Here's what is quite likely to happen. At first it will feel really different. Some things will feel better, others worse. Over time you adjust after a few struggles. And then your level will be........

Exactly what it was before.

And then on to the next.

It's not you. It's everybody.

(Likely outcome, not for certain outcome).

Baal said:
To which I add that for some people going through that cycle and satisfying curiosity is half the fun of the sport. Or more. Since most of us play for fun and are not paid to win, and if that describes you, then you should try it out. I bought a few blades that way myself. Just have realistic expectations. I learned to let my EJ clubmates buy new blades and then I would hit with them. Saved time and money.

I agree with what Baal has said. The reason to buy the blade would be because you want to. So, go for it. If you decide it wasn't quite for you, your old Viscaria will still be there for you. They can withstand a lot of punishment.

And, trying equipment from clubmates is a a great way to EJ without it affecting your wallet too much.

Tango K · Feb 12, 2020

Creek said:
Really interessting that in this thread so many are saying that HL5 is faster than Viscaria...
For me HL5 is slower by several notches. Innerforce style with 2nd layer ayous (as HL5 has) is almost impossible to be quicker than a Koto outerlayer carbon blade (like Viscaria).
The reason for Ma Long to play W968 / HL5 is not the pace it gives him, but the control. The power he has in his shots is mainly produced by his enormous swings.
Fan Zhendong e.g. has a shorter swing and gets the same power with a quicker blade (Viscaria)

Thing is he’s the best and his technique is considered “perfect” by many professionals anw. So we see a lot of fans buying Viscaria and trying so hard to swing enormously like him...... I’m not alone.

...To the extent that now in order to fix it, I have to remind myself not watching his training videos on youtube.

NDH · Feb 12, 2020

I'll repeat what others have said..... This comes down to pure curiosity and enjoyment of the sport.

You stated in your first post that the Viscaria suits your play style a lot? If that's the case, why change?

I'll assume you are an attacker (given your rubbers and blade), but obviously I have no idea about your level.

If you have decent technique, you'll not really notice much difference at all.

The HL5x looks to be a touch quicker than the HL5 due to the thicker core.

But I think you'll find the HL5 to be slower than your Viscaria due to the "inner carbon" - I'd imagine the HL5x will also be a touch slower, but could be similar in terms of speed.

Ultimately, if you are playing well with the Viscaria, and want to improve or keep winning.... You should stick with the Viscaria, or something similar (there are enough Viscaria clones to chose from.... TB ALC, ZJ ALC etc).

If you are finding the Viscaria is a little quick, then go for the bog standard HL5 (I'd ignore the HL5x).

The adjustment isn't huge either way (if you have the technique), but you'll find the reaction shots at crucial times in a match will suffer if you are used to the Viscaria and opt for the HL5.

DaLooper · Feb 14, 2020

Update: I just had my first training session with the Hurricane Long 5X today, and it went alot better than expected. The speed is very similar(maybe slightly less) than my Viscaria, but my 'kill' shots were more deadly. There were enough vibration and control (maybe slightly more or on par with the Viscaria), passive blocks were not as efficient, but active blocks were very good. Forehand and backhand flicks were faster. Service game felt similar to the Viscaria. In conclusion, I am happy with this switch, it gives a refreshing feeling and makes me fall in love with the game even more. Thank you all for the awesome feedbacks and good luck to you all!!

Changing from the Viscaria to the Long 5x

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