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    1. Top | #1
      Kuba Hajto is offline
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      Stretching to avoid stress in leg muscles.

      I have a stress in muscles after trainings in the highlighted zones on the picture. First one is on the right leg (only) on the right side near the knee. Second one is in the front of my legs, on the lower tibia (the lower front part). The second one is mostly felt after prolonged rope skipping.

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      I would love if someone pointed me to stretching excercises to do after playing which points to relaxing those muscles especially, thank you in advance. Right now I am doing a standard stretch we've done in PE in school but i guess I am doing them wrong or they are not enough. A video would be especially appreciated.
      Last edited by Kuba Hajto; 02-16-2020 at 09:37 AM.

    2. Top | #2
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      Number 1 doesn't really look like a muscle, can you be more specific?

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    4. Top | #3
      Kuba Hajto is offline
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      It's hard to pinpoint it exactly. Right side of the right thigh, above the knee slightly behind

    5. Top | #4
      jus10savestheday is offline
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      Lunges and squats should help strengthen the muscles around the knee. Do toe raises and calf raises for the lower muscles. Am I an expert? No. But I was/am an avid runner so lower leg pain is common to me.

    6. Top | #5
      Baal is online now
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      There is no good evidence from scientific studies that stretching before or after exercise prevents injuries. Certainly there is no consensus among experts that it is helpful. A lot of people will find this surprising given what we read on the internet and in popular media. I teach at a medical school and have access to pretty much the entire literature on sports medicine, also have occasional sports injuries, which is why I periodically have searched the literature for ways to reduce these kinds of aches and pains.

      It's hard to tell from your drawings but it is quite possible you have two things going on.

      The pain on the side of your knee might be IT band syndrome.. Best advice is to see a doctor or physical therapist (ideally sports medicine people!!). They may have some exercises or even stretches you could do that at least wont make things worse. They may teach you how to use a foam roller for this, which may be more helpful.

      Note that the calf pain could be an Achilles tendonitis, and you DON'T want that getting worse. Repetitive use injuries are usually best treated by stopping the repetitive use. So maybe switch from the rope skipping to a stationary bike for awhile, or something like that.

      One last thing. Both of the things I mentioned above are tendon injuries, not muscle. If that is what is going on, stretching, and some things to strengthen the muscle could make it worse. So go get checked out by a specialist.
      Last edited by Baal; 02-16-2020 at 01:30 PM.

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    8. Top | #6
      Kuba Hajto is offline
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      Isn't Achilles tendum in the back of the calf?

    9. Top | #7
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      I have no medical foundations, but I have suffered from an Achille’s tendon rupture and I can confirm this is no joke. I repeat: you want to avoid that at all cost and if there’s even the slightest risk your current pain could potentially lead to ATR, you want to stop all physical exercise now

      (I know, that sounds awfully dramatic, but it’s been 4 years almost to the day and I still have issues sometimes)

    10. Top | #8
      jus10savestheday is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Kuba Hajto View Post
      Isn't Achilles tendum in the back of the calf?
      Correct. That’s why I said toe raises. Helps with the shin. Icing after you play wouldn’t be a bad idea. I still say work on strengthening the muscles around the knee, especially your stabilizing muscles. And yeah, stretch and warm up well. Flexibility is just as important as the strength.

    11. Top | #9
      Baal is online now
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      Kuba, do yourself a favor and go see a doctor or physical therapist. An internet forum is about the worst place to go for advice on something like this.

      You are right about frhe achilles. I didn't look closely enough at your drawing. Shin pain is often due to shin splints. Usually resolves by itself with a little rest. But, DON'T TAKE MY WORD FOR IT. Go see a professional. Meantime stop jumping rope.
      Last edited by Baal; 02-16-2020 at 07:16 PM.

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    13. Top | #10
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      @baal Is there any research on stretching in the middle of a workout? That is what I find useful.

      @OP It is kind if amazing how many posts say "It hurts when I do this." Pain is your body asking you to stop. Don't fight your body. No one ever wins those fights.

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    15. Top | #11
      Baal is online now
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      Quote Originally Posted by Brs View Post
      @baal Is there any research on stretching in the middle of a workout? That is what I find useful.

      @OP It is kind if amazing how many posts say "It hurts when I do this." Pain is your body asking you to stop. Don't fight your body. No one ever wins those fights.
      I have not seen a study testing that. But I haven't read everything.

      Actually, static stretches before playing will reduce your performance. About everyone agrees about that. Well at least for sports that require some explosiveness.

      Pain that comes from any increase in training load should not be mysterious. The obvious respond is to rest and recover.

      Remember, recovery is the second ESSENTIAL element of training. That is possibly the most important concept in applied exercise physiology.
      Last edited by Baal; 02-16-2020 at 11:34 PM.

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    17. Top | #12
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      Prior warm up and breathe in breathe in exercises can provide you stress free sysytem

    18. Top | #13
      Kuba Hajto is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Baal View Post
      Kuba, do yourself a favor and go see a doctor or physical therapist. An internet forum is about the worst place to go for advice on something like this.
      Thank you very much for your advice, I will gladly take it. Unfortunately, Poland being Poland my appointment is scheduled for 2027 so I think I will have to find a private consultation lolz.

    19. Top | #14
      Baal is online now
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      Trust me it could be worse. You could be in the US and get an appointment tomorrow but they will charge 2,000 dollars. If you have insurance you only pay 25 dollars, but god save you if you go to a doctor "out of network" (that could include doctors you never see, like the dude who operates the MRI facility, or an anesthesiologist or a radiologist), or if the insurance company doesnt agree with the drug she prescribes. Then things start to get really expensive!!

      Of course, that scary stuff might not come into play for someone in the US with the things you probably have. Probably they will tell that person to rest and recover. Maybe a steroid injection. But it easily could become a financial catastrophe if, say, someone needed surgery for back or knee. Insurance here will not always protect you and hospitals just make up their charges out of thin air.
      Last edited by Baal; 02-17-2020 at 11:01 AM.

    20. Top | #15
      thekleifheit13 is offline
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      Try this: https://www.t-nation.com/training/defranco-agile-8

      I do it every single time before I work out or play TT. I'm very mean to my body, as I compete in powerlifting, freestyle skiing, and I play table tennis at ~90KG and 175 cm height. Before I did Agile 8 as a warmup, I would get hurt pretty much every 3 months. Since I've started, I've stayed healthy for almost 2 years. It takes about 10-15 minutes, but it makes a huge difference.

    21. Top | #16
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      I had tendentious in my right knee which resulted in occasional shooting pains on the outside of my knee after too strenuous table tennis for years. Wore a knee compression sleeve and I thought that helped.

      But ultimately what really did the trick was doing calf stretches. I guess the tendons from those come up & connect with the knee.

      Anyways, after focusing on these, my tendentious went away (assuming I don't overdue it) and I no longer need the compression sleeve.

      I recommend trying this and given the fact that stretching is healthy overall.

      My youtube channel of various games & highlights from club throughout the years:
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    22. Top | #17
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      Quote Originally Posted by Kuba Hajto View Post
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      The thing in the back of the leg looks like you are referring to one of the hamstring tendons: YOU DO NOT WANT TO STRETCH FOR THAT.

      As Baal said, a tendon injury that is an overuse injury will not be made better by using it more or by stretching it.

      Tendons are also not something you should think or want to stretch. That injury needs rest.

      The shin muscles being crazy sore after extended jumping rope is probably, as Baal said, Shin Splints. That occurs when the muscles of the shin have been overused to the point that the muscle and the connective tissue gets inflamed from over use.

      So, again, an over use syndrome. Not something that should be stretched either. Not something that really can be effectively stretched anyway, so, you would have a harder time making it worse by stretching. But stretching would not be the answer.

      It looks like you need to rest till those things are not bothering you any more. But stretching is definitely not what will help you with either.

      Baal's information is the most important information presented in the thread.

      Do other things for a while. No jump rope till the shins feel better. That should not take too long. But however long it takes....no jump rope till your shins are not hurting.

      If TT is causing the condition in the back of your knee, no TT till the back of your knee feels better.

      And no matter what you do, do not stretch your knees. Or the connective tissue in the area of your knees. No good can come from stretching your knees.
      Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 02-17-2020 at 07:44 PM.
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    24. Top | #18
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      Quote Originally Posted by suds79 View Post
      I had tendentious in my right knee which resulted in occasional shooting pains on the outside of my knee after too strenuous table tennis for years. Wore a knee compression sleeve and I thought that helped.

      But ultimately what really did the trick was doing calf stretches. I guess the tendons from those come up & connect with the knee.

      Anyways, after focusing on these, my tendentious went away (assuming I don't overdue it) and I no longer need the compression sleeve.

      I recommend trying this and given the fact that stretching is healthy overall.

      The gastrocnemius is the bigger muscle in the calf. It crosses the knee joint and inserts on the distal end of the femur (just above the knee joint on the back of the leg). Stretching that could take some stress off the tendons that cross the knee. It would depend on the specific injury if that would be helpful here.


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    26. Top | #19
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      Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl View Post
      The thing in the back of the leg looks like you are referring to one of the hamstring tendons: YOU DO NOT WANT TO STRETCH FOR THAT.

      As Baal said, a tendon injury that is an overuse injury will not be made better by using it more or by stretching it.

      Tendons are also not something you should think or want to stretch. That injury needs rest.

      The shin muscles being crazy sore after extended jumping rope is probably, as Baal said, Shin Splints. That occurs when the muscles of the shin have been overused to the point that the muscle and the connective tissue gets inflamed from over use.

      So, again, an over use syndrome. Not something that should be stretched either. Not something that really can be effectively stretched anyway, so, you would have a harder time making it worse by stretching. But stretching would not be the answer.

      It looks like you need to rest till those things are not bothering you any more. But stretching is definitely not what will help you with either.

      Baal's information is the most important information presented in the thread.

      Do other things for a while. No jump rope till the shins feel better. That should not take too long. But however long it takes....no jump rope till your shins are not hurting.

      If TT is causing the condition in the back of your knee, no TT till the back of your knee feels better.

      And no matter what you do, do not stretch your knees. Or the connective tissue in the area of your knees. No good can come from stretching your knees.
      While everything you just said is perfectly reasonable Carl, I felt like it was worded in a way that could lead some to generalize to a wrong deduction.

      You say « You do not want to stretch for that » and « Stretching would not be the answer »... and while that is partially true I feel like it’s not exactly complete neither. « Stretching » might help... If you’re not stretching that specific part.

      Let me take a slightly different example: rotulian tendon inflammation (for the less medically inclined, this is the one just below the knee / above the tibia that you can feel with your finger when bending your knee). While it is perfectly true that you do not want to try and stretch the actual tendon for all the reasons that Carl mentioned, you may however want to stretch other muscles (such as the tibial harmstring. Edit: not that one actually, google translate failed me, sorry.) as they may be stiffened and that may be what is putting some constraint on the Rotulian tendon, causing it to be inflammated. Source: I had that issue (the root cause being the aforementioned Achilles’ tendon rupture and me not taking good enough care of my sport-specific retraining), went to my physio for advice and what I just wrote is basically his diagnosis and protocol.

      I guess what I wanted to say is that, as I believe Baal mentioned already, an Internet forum is the last place you should be looking for answers to those questions, even if the person giving advice is good, if anything because the message may be incomplete or you may fail to fully grasp it.

      Go see a good physio and follow his medical advice

      PS: don’t hesitate to correct me if I’m wrong, I’m always open to being challenged especially on topics I only have a partial understanding of.
      Last edited by bricec; 02-18-2020 at 08:03 AM.

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    28. Top | #20
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      Quote Originally Posted by bricec View Post
      While everything you just said is perfectly reasonable Carl, I felt like it was worded in a way that could lead some to generalize to a wrong deduction.

      You say « You do not want to stretch for that » and « Stretching would not be the answer »... and while that is partially true I feel like it’s not exactly complete neither. « Stretching » might help... If you’re not stretching that specific part.
      This is a good post. This is the flaw with posting fast while riding a train to your next job.

      What you don't want to stretch is the inflamed tendon. This is also why I noted that suds post about stretching the gastrocnemius for it, that might be good. From the internet, it is hard to say, but it could be good. If you can stretch the hamstring muscles without involving the tendons that cross the knee, that could actually also be okay. It is hard to say without the person there. And, me trying to describe how to do that on the internet without the person in front of me to see if they are doing it in a way that is safe for them, that is just not possible. So, on the internet, it is safer to say: "rest, don't do anything until you see someone."

      And a very good part of why I said that Baal gave the most important information is that, the internet, with someone who is not there with you, and not able to have real, tools for diagnosis, would not be a good place to get advice for an injury.

      So, I agree with all you said in the post. I didn't include you entire post in my quote simply for brevity.

      BTW: on Sunday I was working with a woman who has a set of exercises from a Dr and a Physical Therapist. I was having her do the exercises and watching how she was doing them. When I saw one of them, I asked how her neck and knee felt. Now, the stretch was for her hip. But she was loading stress in her neck and knee while doing the stretch. I changed a few things, asked how it felt. She said it felt loads better. And she had been wondering why her neck and her knees had been bothering her.

      In the physical therapy sessions she is doing, they have her set up so the neck won't be an issue. But the PT is also working with 10 people at a time and gives the next exercise and then goes to the next person while she is doing it and comes back to her when he has help the other 9. So, he sets her up to do the exercise but is not watching if her mechanics are okay. Now I understand that is the system. And they had her mostly safe. But by me watching, and being there, and not going to someone else, I was able to see what she was not understanding about the exercise and how to get her to know how to do it in a way that was better for her. Even with PT because of how the medical system works, sometimes certain things go wrong. Not always. But it is possible for that to happen.

      I also cannot tell you how many times I have seen a client who had a Dr give them sheets with exercises and did not watch them do the exercises or see if they were doing them well or safely and then saw the client doing those exercises and thought "Oh my goodness, please, no, don't do it that way."
      Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 02-18-2020 at 02:03 PM.

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