Trying new blade after Viscaria

So your post that the Offensive S was good enough had nothing to do with my post about the Extreme S being closer to what he seemed to be looking for?

My beef with you Carl is that you accused me of posting non-sense even if I clearly said "IF THE OP DOES NOT MIND HAVING A SLOWER BLADE THAN VISCARIA" as if I have not read his posts when you clearly jumped to conclusions and did not read my posts carefully! If i said that phrase I quoted, is it hard to understand and read between the lines that I am saying the Offensive S is clearly slower????
 
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My beef with you Carl is that you accused me of posting non-sense even if I clearly said "IF THE OP DOES NOT MIND HAVING A SLOWER BLADE THAN VISCARIA" as if I have not read his posts when you clearly jumped to conclusions and did not read my posts carefully! If i said that phrase I quoted, is it hard to understand and read between the lines that I am saying the Offensive S is clearly slower????

So, I ask again, was that post a response to my post that Extreme S seemed to be closer to what he was looking for. If it was not, then you just posted that out of the blue after already having said Offensive S would be good. If it was actually in response to what I wrote, then the piece of information you were not offering is his post about how he wanted something closer to the speed of the Viscaria.

So, did you just simply post that the Offensive S would be good enough if he didn't mind slower to restate that you had already posted that the Offensive S was what he was looking for. Or was it in response to me saying Extreme S was closer to what he was looking for?
 
So, I ask again, was that post a response to my post that Extreme S seemed to be closer to what he was looking for. If it was not, then you just posted that out of the blue after already having said Offensive S would be good. If it was actually in response to what I wrote, then the piece of information you were not offering is his post about how he wanted something closer to the speed of the Viscaria.

So, did you just simply post that the Offensive S would be good enough if he didn't mind slower to restate that you had already posted that the Offensive S was what he was looking for. Or was it in response to me saying Extreme S was closer to what he was looking for?

Yes it was a response on what you said and we can both disagree nothing wrong with that. It is not even the point and do not muddle the issue nor stray away from what you did! You can suggest all you want I can disagree all I want but it does not merit you to call my post non-sense when i even indicated that the Offensive S is a slower blade. What is so hard to understand about what i am suggesting of a different approach?? You seem to be evading my questions and then just go on with your response:

1. Where in the entire thread did i even touch the issue of Offensive S being close to Viscaria's speed? You made this all up!
2. Again, which part of "If the OP does not mind having a slower blade than Viscaria" is really hard to understand Carl? Which part of that statement do I need to explain that I am suggesting a different approach and with a slower blade?
 
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So, you were throwing shade on my comment, had not considered that I posted that the Extreme S may be a better fit since it was closer to the speed of the Viscaria and that is what OP said he wanted. But you want me to answer silly questions that are beside the point?

I get it.
 
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So, you were throwing shade on my comment, had not considered that I posted that the Extreme S may be a better fit since it was closer to the speed of the Viscaria and that is what OP said he wanted. But you want me to answer silly questions that are beside the point? I get it.

No, Carl. You do not get it. The point is not on who has the better fit of equipment suggestion. That is debatable all day and approaches are different. Point is I can disagree with you all I want but still do not call for being called or accused having a pointless post without even reading mine in the right context! Those silly questions were raised since you raised silly issues that I did not even point out! You cannot wiggle out of this Carl. You are just digging a deeper hole for yourself.
 
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No, Carl. You do not get it. The point is not on who has the better fit of equipment suggestion. That is debatable all day and approaches are different. Point is I can disagree with you all I want but still do not call for being called or accused having a pointless post without even reading mine in the right context! Those silly questions were raised since you raised silly issues that I did not even point out! You cannot wiggle out of this Carl. You are just digging a deeper hole for yourself.

I think it is you who is trying to wriggle out of something.

I made the point that, if he was looking for something closer to the speed of the Viscaria, the Extreme S was a closer fit. You responded to my post saying Offensive S was fine if he wanted a slower blade. You did not read the context of my post. But I got you were throwing shade at me.

So I pointed out that he asked for something "same speed" as the Viscaria. I understand that is unlikely with an all wood blade. But Clipper or Extreme S are close enough.

It is true, the Offensive S is a fine blade. I really like the blade. It might be fine for him to IF HE WAS LOOKING FOR SOMETHING SLOWER.

And rather than seeing, "Oh wait, the Offensive S might be okay if he wanted something slower, but Extreme S would be better if he wanted something closer to the speed of the Viscaria," make comments about, Extreme S is not in the same speed category as Clipper, it is more like Clipper CC.....

But all the points you made were, "Carl, if you say Extreme S is same speed category as Clipper you don't know what you are talking about." The speed of Clipper and Extreme S are close enough that I can find you Clippers faster than Extreme Ss and I can find you Extreme Ss faster than Clippers because we all know that with wood as the main material (which applies to composite blades as well), there is always A SPEED RANGE.

So, your comments were to make me look bad. My initial comment was about WHAT SEEMS LIKE IT WOULD BE BEST FOR THE OP. Fairly fast all wood. Clipper, Extreme S.

And I still contend, that statement by the OP "same speed" it is worth assessing what the OP is asking for.
 
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You are both great and wise man Carl and yogi, but I think both of you are right in some respect. What yogi wrote is technically valid (he did mention the "if he wanted slower"), but Carl is also right because OP did post that he doesn't want anything slower so why bother pondering about it? I am wrong person to talk about this, but Offensive S is much slower than Viscaria, no?

Sry for offtopic (or rather on topic?). I've had quickest of smacks with an Andro blade, prolly Timber 7 Off. It felt roughly similar kind of speeds as viscaria. So that might be another option for you to consider. Did you dear OP tried any 7ply all wood? For me they feel different, sort of stiffer. If you don't like 7plies, then what you yogi suggested might have been a correct advise after all...
 
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I think it is you who is trying to wriggle out of something.

I made the point that, if he was looking for something closer to the speed of the Viscaria, the Extreme S was a closer fit. You responded to my post saying Offensive S was fine if he wanted a slower blade. You did not read the context of my post. But I got you were throwing shade at me.

So I pointed out that he asked for something "same speed" as the Viscaria. I understand that is unlikely with an all wood blade. But Clipper or Extreme S are close enough.

It is true, the Offensive S is a fine blade. I really like the blade. It might be fine for him to IF HE WAS LOOKING FOR SOMETHING SLOWER.

And rather than seeing, "Oh wait, the Offensive S might be okay if he wanted something slower, but Extreme S would be better if he wanted something closer to the speed of the Viscaria," make comments about, Extreme S is not in the same speed category as Clipper, it is more like Clipper CC.....

But all the points you made were, "Carl, if you say Extreme S is same speed category as Clipper you don't know what you are talking about." The speed of Clipper and Extreme S are close enough that I can find you Clippers faster than Extreme Ss and I can find you Extreme Ss faster than Clippers because we all know that with wood as the main material (which applies to composite blades as well), there is always A SPEED RANGE.

So, your comments were to make me look bad. My initial comment was about WHAT SEEMS LIKE IT WOULD BE BEST FOR THE OP. Fairly fast all wood. Clipper, Extreme S.

And I still contend, that statement by the OP "same speed" it is worth assessing what the OP is asking for.

"I made the point that, if he was looking for something closer to the speed of the Viscaria, the Extreme S was a closer fit. You responded to my post saying Offensive S was fine if he wanted a slower blade. You did not read the context of my post. But I got you were throwing shade at me. "

It does not matter. Again, you do not see the point of the post. I can disagree with you all day long about equipment within the confines of the forum rules and you can not stop me from disagreeing with you. Why Carl? Does it touch your ego if I disagree? You have disagreed with my posts and opinions in the past I disagree with sometimes but I let it go. In my part if I disagree with you, you call my post senseless without even reading carefully or checking my context? Wow, that is very fair Carl! And no, you cannot wriggle from what you did! You have taken cheap shots at me a lot in different occasions and now you complain about me disagreeing with your post?? You would also suggest things that are different sometimes or is it that the rule only applies to you and not other members?


"But all the points you made were, "Carl, if you say Extreme S is same speed category as Clipper you don't know what you are talking about." The speed of Clipper and Extreme S are close enough that I can find you Clippers faster than Extreme Ss and I can find you Extreme Ss faster than Clippers because we all know that with wood as the main material (which applies to composite blades as well), there is always A SPEED RANGE. "

I still stand on this and now I am even saying that your post was inaccurate. The speed difference is big. Yes you have used them but I own the blades or have access to the blades mentioned.

"And I still contend, that statement by the OP "same speed" it is worth assessing what the OP is asking for."

It does not matter, Again, you are just going around in circles. Again, I can argue with you all day that you are wrong and you can argue with me that I am wrong but point is I only suggested a different approach because as I feel that it is good enough you cannot do something about it. Calling my post non-sense and making up things that I never said or claimed is something to ponder for you Carl. I could have just let it go when you disagreed with me but to call my post non-sense without even checking my context with you feeling insulted while starting this mess is really low Carl but hey I can do this all day. From now on I will hound your posts too and also detail all the things that I can see wrong. Heck, you have been taking cheap shots at me ever since so why don't I return the favor? This is what you get for trying to deny what you did.
 
You are both great and wise man Carl and yogi, but I think both of you are right in some respect. What yogi wrote is technically valid (he did mention the "if he wanted slower"), but Carl is also right because OP did post that he doesn't want anything slower so why bother pondering about it? I am wrong person to talk about this, but Offensive S is much slower than Viscaria, no?

Sry for offtopic (or rather on topic?). I've had quickest of smacks with an Andro blade, prolly Timber 7 Off. It felt roughly similar kind of speeds as viscaria. So that might be another option for you to consider. Did you dear OP tried any 7ply all wood? For me they feel different, sort of stiffer. If you don't like 7plies, then what you yogi suggested might have been a correct advise after all...

He does not want to be contradicted nor opposed on his suggestion as it touches his ego. He called my post senseless first and yet he is the one who says he is insulted when he is the first one to start this mess.
 
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"I made the point that, if he was looking for something closer to the speed of the Viscaria, the Extreme S was a closer fit. You responded to my post saying Offensive S was fine if he wanted a slower blade. You did not read the context of my post. But I got you were throwing shade at me. "

It does not matter. Again, you do not see the point of the post. I can disagree with you all day long about equipment within the confines of the forum rules and you can not stop me from disagreeing with you. Why Carl? Does it touch your ego if I disagree? You have disagreed with my posts and opinions in the past I disagree with sometimes but I let it go. In my part if I disagree with you, you call my post senseless without even reading carefully or checking my context? Wow, that is very fair Carl! And no, you cannot wriggle from what you did! You have taken cheap shots at me a lot in different occasions and now you complain about me disagreeing with your post?? You would also suggest things that are different sometimes or is it that the rule only applies to you and not other members?


"But all the points you made were, "Carl, if you say Extreme S is same speed category as Clipper you don't know what you are talking about." The speed of Clipper and Extreme S are close enough that I can find you Clippers faster than Extreme Ss and I can find you Extreme Ss faster than Clippers because we all know that with wood as the main material (which applies to composite blades as well), there is always A SPEED RANGE. "

I still stand on this and now I am even saying that your post was inaccurate. The speed difference is big. Yes you have used them but I own the blades or have access to the blades mentioned.

"And I still contend, that statement by the OP "same speed" it is worth assessing what the OP is asking for."

It does not matter, Again, you are just going around in circles. Again, I can argue with you all day that you are wrong and you can argue with me that I am wrong but point is I only suggested a different approach because as I feel that it is good enough you cannot do something about it. Calling my post non-sense and making up things that I never said or claimed is something to ponder for you Carl. I could have just let it go when you disagreed with me but to call my post non-sense without even checking my context with you feeling insulted while starting this mess is really low Carl but hey I can do this all day. From now on I will hound your posts too and also detail all the things that I can see wrong. Heck, you have been taking cheap shots at me ever since so why don't I return the favor? This is what you get for trying to deny what you did.

What was nonsense was nignagaling about the the speed of Clipper vs Extreme S vs Viscaria. They are all Off Speed rated blades. So I will say they are in THE SAME SPEED CLASS. And you can have your own definition of speed class. I don't care about that stuff. That is why I did not bother with statements like that.

Ideally, our comments should be about what would be best for OP. Obviously now, something else is going on.

I will still simply contend, that if the OP wants an all wood blade that is close in speed to Viscaria, then Clipper and Extreme S are good fits; and they would likely be better fits than a Korbel or an Offensive S. I do think Offensive S makes more sense than Korbel though. Because Korbel is really far away in feel and play qualities from Viscaria. Offensive S is crisper and stiffer than Korbel so it would give wood feel and would not be quite as different from Viscaria.

But the OP did say, "as fast as" so I would surmise from that that Clipper and Extreme S would quite likely be more what OP is looking for. They might not be AS FAST, but they are close to being as fast. And I can definitely find certain Clippers that are faster than certain Viscarias.

You can disagree with me all you want. I don't mind having someone disagree with me. I do mind being insulted though.
 
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Dudes. None of this matters. Odds are overwhelming that OP in fullness of time will stick with the Viscaria. You are writing long paragraphs nobody is going to read. About ping pong paddles.

Contemplate the essence of Rule 88.

Ba'al has spoken.
 
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What was nonsense was nignagaling about the the speed of Clipper vs Extreme S vs Viscaria. They are all Off Speed rated blades. So I will say they are in THE SAME SPEED CLASS. And you can have your own definition of speed class. I don't care about that stuff. That is why I did not bother with statements like that.

Ideally, our comments should be about what would be best for OP. Obviously now, something else is going on.

I will still simply contend, that if the OP wants an all wood blade that is close in speed to Viscaria, then Clipper and Extreme S are good fits; and they would likely be better fits than a Korbel or an Offensive S. I do think Offensive S makes more sense than Korbel though. Because Korbel is really far away in feel and play qualities from Viscaria. Offensive S is crisper and stiffer than Korbel so it would give wood feel and not be quite as different from Viscaria.

But the OP did say, "as fast as" so I would surmise from that that Clipper and Extreme S would quite likely be more what OP is looking for.

You can disagree with me all you want. I don't mind having someone disagree with me. I do mind being insulted though.


"What was nonsense was nignagaling about the the speed of Clipper vs Extreme S vs Viscaria. They are all Off Speed rated blades. So I will say they are in THE SAME SPEED CLASS. And you can have your own definition of speed class. I don't care about that stuff. That is why I did not bother with statements like that. "

Clipper and Extreme S are not in the same class. You are kidding yourself. If you cannot feel the difference between the 2 then try them again. I can definitely say that Clipper is slower than Extreme S so they are NOT in the same speed class with Viscaria. You are wrong!

"Ideally, our comments should be about what would be best for OP. Obviously now, something else is going on. "

I have been suggesting the Offensive S because I feel it is a good choice despite him asking for a faster blade.


"
I will still simply contend, that if the OP wants an all wood blade that is close in speed to Viscaria, then Clipper and Extreme S are good fits; and they would likely be better fits than a Korbel or an Offensive S. I do think Offensive S makes more sense than Korbel though. Because Korbel is really far away in feel and play qualities from Viscaria. Offensive S is crisper and stiffer than Korbel so it would give wood feel and not be quite as different from Viscaria.

But the OP did say, "as fast as" so I would surmise from that that Clipper and Extreme S would quite likely be more what OP is looking for. "

Again, I was pushing for a different approach and that is mine to call and no again, Clipper and Extreme S are not in the same speed class level as Viscaria. They have great margins in speed especially with Clipper.

"You can disagree with me all you want. I don't mind having someone disagree with me. I do mind being insulted though."

And i do mind being insulted FIRST and calling my post non-sense when I was suggesting a different approach opposite to what the OP is asking for. Do not play the victim when you started the mud throwing yourself.
 
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Okay, I will go point by point and not ignore anything.

Clipper and Extreme S are not in the same class. You are kidding yourself. If you cannot feel the difference between the 2 then try them again. I can definitely say that Clipper is slower than Extreme S so they are NOT in the same speed class with Viscaria. You are wrong!

We obviously disagree. I don't find Viscaria very fast. I don't find Clipper very slow. I did not say I could not feel a difference. I just said, they are close enough in speed that I would put them in the same speed class. And there is no question that I can find specific Viscarias that are slower than specific Clippers. And again, this kind of discussion is pointless and it is also nonsense. I have not said you are wrong. I have said we can have different definitions of what Speed Class means. But you have said I am wrong. And you continue insulting me while claiming you are the actual victim.

I have been suggesting the Offensive S because I feel it is a good choice despite him asking for a faster blade.

Here, this is what that actually might look like if you were taking into account that OP asked for faster.

"I know you want a blade that is as fast or almost as fast as Viscaria that is all wood. But I think you may be better off considering a blade that is Off- like the Offensive S which is a great blade and might be perfect for you."

But you were not offering something to the OP. You were arguing with me. And you have already said as much above:

Yes it was a response on what you said...

And i do mind being insulted FIRST

And I contend that if you were responding to me, and not the OP with your second comment about Offensive S, then you were throwing shade at me before I threw it back at you.


.....and calling my post non-sense when I was suggesting a different approach....

What was nonsense was quibbling about small degrees of difference in blade speeds. It is a red herring. It is beside the point. All the blades whose speed you argued about are faster than the Offensive S and closer to the speed of the Viscaria than the Offensive S. So worrying if a Clipper is a shade slower than an Extreme S when both are a shade or two slower than the Viscaria is totally a waste of time. Yes, I am terrible for not acknowledging that the Clipper may sometimes be marginally slower than the Extreme S.....this just seems to be bait and switch material about nothing that is even relevant, except in that you were trying to attack my credibility. So, yes, this is silly and it is nonsense.

And you trying again and again to equate you arguing with me about Offensve S vs Extreme S to a sane approach to suggesting the OP use a slightly slower blade than what he is thinking is just off base. If you had said: "Even though you think you want something faster, I would suggest this blade which is slightly slower than what you are thinking," I would have been entirely on board with that. But you were not commenting to the OP. You were arguing with me when I suggested Extreme S is closer to what OP is asking for.

Now, again, maybe the OP would be better off with a slower blade. Maybe he can be convinced of that. But based on what the OP asked about and said he was interested in, Clipper and Extreme S seem to be more in line with what he says he would like.
 
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Okay, I will go point by point and not ignore anything.



We obviously disagree. I don't find Viscaria very fast. I don't find Clipper very slow. I did not say I could not feel a difference. I just said, they are close enough in speed that I would put them in the same speed class. And there is no question that I can find specific Viscarias that are slower than specific Clippers. And again, this kind of discussion is pointless and it is also nonsense. I have not said you are wrong. I have said we can have different definitions of what Speed Class means. But you have said I am wrong. And you continue insulting me while claiming you are the actual victim.



Here, this is what that actually might look like if you were taking into account that OP asked for faster.

"I know you want a blade that is as fast or almost as fast as Viscaria that is all wood. But I think you may be better off considering a blade that is Off- like the Offensive S which is a great blade and might be perfect for you."

But you were not offering something to the OP. You were arguing with me. And you have already said as much above:





And I contend that if you were responding to me, and not the OP with your second comment about Offensive S, then you were throwing shade at me before I threw it back at you.




What was nonsense was quibbling about small degrees of difference in blade speeds. It is a red herring. It is beside the point. All the blades whose speed you argued about are faster than the Offensive S and closer to the speed of the Viscaria than the Offensive S. So worrying if a Clipper is a shade slower than an Extreme S when both are a shade or two slower than the Viscaria is totally a waste of time. Yes, I am terrible for not acknowledging that the Clipper may sometimes be marginally slower than the Extreme S.....this just seems to be bait and switch material about nothing that is even relevant, except in that you were trying to attack my credibility. So, yes, this is silly and it is nonsense.

And you trying again and again to equate you arguing with me about Offensve S vs Extreme S to a sane approach to suggesting the OP use a slightly slower blade than what he is thinking is just off base. If you had said: "Even though you think you want something faster, I would suggest this blade which is slightly slower than what you are thinking," I would have been entirely on board with that. But you were not commenting to the OP. You were arguing with me when I suggested Extreme S is closer to what OP is asking for.

Now, again, maybe the OP would be better off with a slower blade. Maybe he can be convinced of that. But based on what the OP asked about and said he was interested in, Clipper and Extreme S seem to be more in line with what he says he would like.

No Carl, you still frail ego still do not get it. You can disagree with me and be fine with it while if i suggest something else you just won't let it go. Please go back again when i disagreed with you which is my right and is along rhe context of this arguement. The arguement started when you called my posts non sense after i disagreed with you and insisted on the exreme s not when i started calling out your inability to differentiate to speed of a clipper, viscaria or extreme s comparatively. I am calling it now though since ypu opened the can of worms for yourself. You insulted me first for disagreeing with you. That is hypocrisy Carl. You seem to disagree with other people here in their posts yet you are fine with it but when somebody disagrees with yiu, you are hurt because your credibility is put into question. Please spare us your double standard!
 
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No Carl, you still frail ego still do not get it. You can disagree with me and be fine with it while if i suggest something else you just won't let it go. Please go back again when i disagreed with you which is my right and is along rhe context of this arguement. The arguement started when you called my posts non sense after i disagreed with you and insisted on the exreme s not when i started calling out your inability to differentiate to speed of a clipper, viscaria or extreme s comparatively. I am calling it now though since ypu opened the can of worms for yourself. You insulted me first for disagreeing with you. That is hypocrisy Carl. You seem to disagree with other people here in their posts yet you are fine with it but when somebody disagrees with yiu, you are hurt because your credibility is put into question. Please spare us your double standard!

All I am going to point out is that I keep bringing the discussion back to what will be useful to the OP and you keep trying to insult me. I really don't care what you say about me. But I would question whose ego is the one that is fragile and easily wounded.

So, what would be best for the OP? If he can handle the Viscaria and wants something close to as fast but all wood, I still think Clipper and Extreme S might be good choices.

If he does decide he wanted something a little slower there are lots of good choices. I would say first among them might actually be an OSP V'King (man that has amazing feeling with a Koto top ply) or OSP Virtuoso Plus. For something less expensive Offensive S might be a good option.
 
To save us both the trouble of wasting our time arguing Carl i am just gonna do what you have been doing to other people also. I will disagree with you and even point out exactly what i think is wrong with your responses and yes it will put your credibility on the line starting from now.
 
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To save us both the trouble of wasting our time arguing Carl i am just gonna do what you have been doing to other people also. I will disagree with you and even point out exactly what i think is wrong with your responses and yes it will put your credibility on the line starting from now.

Cool. I will I will look forward to that.

According to TTGearLab measurements, the Stiga Ebenholz VII has similar speed and ball hold characteristics to the TB Spirit / Viscaria.


Obviously the the outer ply is harder, but at least the measurements are clear.


https://ttgearlab.com/2017/02/06/comparison-stiga-hardwood-series/

This is a good post and that would be a very good choice for the OP and the harder top ply of the Ebenholz VII would be a good choice. Big wood feel but not so different in playing characteristics to Viscaria.
 
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