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    1. Top | #1
      Hustler37 is offline
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      Which kind of serve with short pips forehand??

      What kind of serves is good with short spinny pips on fh???
      I also use short pips on bh

    2. Top | #2
      UpSideDownCarl is online now
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      Isn't this more about what serves you do well and what serves give you an edge against a specific opponent?

      Certain serves will set you up well vs one player while another player will eat those same serves for lunch. So serving, in the end, is about reading your opponent and pulling out the serves which help you against that specific player.

      Which also means, it is worth practicing all spin variations on serves:

      1) Direct backspin
      a) varying amount of spin, light, mid, heavy

      2) Direct topspin
      a) a) varying amount of spin, light, mid, heavy

      3) Sidespin that curves right to left:
      a) straight side spin
      b) side/backspin
      c) side/topspin
      d) varying the amount of spin with all of the above: light, medium, heavy
      e) no-spin with same motion (no spin could ultra-light backspin or no-spin which, after the second bounce will be ultra-light topspin).

      4) Sidespin that curves left to right:
      a) straight side spin
      b) side/backspin
      c) side/topspin
      d) varying the amount of spin with all of the above: light, medium, heavy
      e) no-spin with same motion (no spin could ultra-light backspin or no-spin which, after the second bounce will be ultra-light topspin).

      5) Corkscrew:
      a) with this I would only use medium or heavy. The ideal with corkscrew is to make it look like one of the other sidespin serves. Because, if it is true corkscrew, one side of the ball will be backspin and the other side of the ball will be topspin. If it looks like a sidespin that curves when it is really a sidespin that kicks to the side, you get a lot of misreading of the serve.

      With the regular versions of sidespin, being able to vary things like the axis of spin helps you get misreads of the serve as well. So, more side than top, more top than side, more back than side, more side than back.

      In my opinion, which versions of the serves don't matter that much. Like, a BH serve, a hook or tomahawk serve or a reverse pendulum serve can all be used to give you the sidespin that curves right to left (from the receiver's perspective, spin that curves towards the FH side of the table).

      There are BH serves, and reverse tomahawk serves that give spin from left to right (from the receiver's perspective, serves that curve towards the BH side of the table) but the easiest serve I know of for creating that kind of sidespin is a traditional pendulum serve.

      But it is worth being able to create all or as many of those spin variations as possible, so that, when you are facing an opponent, you can go through a variety and see which serves your opponent has more trouble with and which serves give you more of an edge on your third ball.

      From that standpoint, I don't really think it matters what kind of rubber you have on your racket. It just matters that you have a backspin serve, a topspin serve, a serve that allows you to create the first sidespin (then you need to learn how to make it more top, more backspin, or more side so you have variation of that specific serve) and a serve that allows you to create the second sidespin.

      Corkscrew is more complicated. But if you can figure out how to create a corkscrew serve, then you will understand its value. A corkscrew is spinning like a football spiral and will fly straight but when it bounces it will kick to one side or the other. So Adam Bobrow's snake shots are corkscrew lobs.

      It is also interesting that often low level players will have no trouble with corkscrew serves because the axis is front to back so if the hit the ball directly in the back it will feel like a no spin ball. The value of the corkscrew is when the opponent cannot see that it is not a regular sidespin and tries to return it as if it is a regular sidespin.

      Anyway, the short answer is, practice all serves, see which ones you are most comfortable with. And then, in matches, learn to read your opponent to see which serves work best on him/her.
      Spin Everything.

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    4. Top | #3
      pingpongpaddy is offline
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      hi hustler
      you can do all the serves that you might do with inverted. If you practice your serves with dedication you will achieve more spin than an inverted user who doesnt practice.
      If you have a typical short pips style fast counterhit and block then varied placement and speed is beneficial. its good to match serves so that you can for instance serve very short chop to rh fh or very fast flat to rh bh both serves executed from same stance with good disguise. when you play against loopers you need to decide for each opponent whether it is better to give opponent a backspin ball to encourage a loop or not. if opponents loop is weak you invite the loop by chop serve orpushing then killing the weak topspin. if there topspin is too strong you may want to use fast flat serves with change of direction to induce rallies so there are plenty of kill opportunities.
      hope this helps

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    6. Top | #4
      Hustler37 is offline
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      Thanks for your help

    7. Top | #5
      UpSideDownCarl is online now
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      Quote Originally Posted by pingpongpaddy View Post
      hi hustler
      you can do all the serves that you might do with inverted. If you practice your serves with dedication you will achieve more spin than an inverted user who doesnt practice.
      If you have a typical short pips style fast counterhit and block then varied placement and speed is beneficial. its good to match serves so that you can for instance serve very short chop to rh fh or very fast flat to rh bh both serves executed from same stance with good disguise. when you play against loopers you need to decide for each opponent whether it is better to give opponent a backspin ball to encourage a loop or not. if opponents loop is weak you invite the loop by chop serve orpushing then killing the weak topspin. if there topspin is too strong you may want to use fast flat serves with change of direction to induce rallies so there are plenty of kill opportunities.
      hope this helps
      Fast dead serves, strategically placed is one of my favorite weapons. From a hook serve it is really easy to hide that the serve has no spin. You can even get it to skid like heavy backspin.

    8. Top | #6
      Hustler37 is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl View Post
      Fast dead serves, strategically placed is one of my favorite weapons. From a hook serve it is really easy to hide that the serve has no spin. You can even get it to skid like heavy backspin.
      Do you have any videos where i can see what you mean of a hook serve with short pips Carl???

    9. Top | #7
      UpSideDownCarl is online now
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      Quote Originally Posted by Hustler37 View Post
      Do you have any videos where i can see what you mean of a hook serve with short pips Carl???
      A hook serve is a hook serve. Just like I already said, it should not matter what the surface you are using is, you execute any serve how you execute the serve. Par Gerell's money serve is a hook serve:



      This is a serve tutorial that teaches how to do a hook serve:



      If you are doing a hook serve, all you need to do is a fast, dead variation of the serve to do a fast dead hook serve.

      So, if you read my post, the basic thing I said is, no matter what serves you are most able to do, you need to actually learn the fundamentals of serving so you can do all spin variations of any kind of serve.

      One of the advantages of the hook serve is, it is very easy to change from topspin to backspin to all sidespin to dead, from heavy spin to lighter spin, without showing the opponent to much of a change in the serve motion that creates the different spins. Which is also why Par Gerell is known for having such lethal serves.

      Here is me, while messing around 4 years ago, while in a suite:



      First two serves are hook variations. Third serve is a long pendulum that gets away from me.
      Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 2 Weeks Ago at 06:08 AM.

    10. Top | #8
      UpSideDownCarl is online now
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      Two more details about serves. If you are using Short Pips on one side and smooth on the other, showing the same serve and switching which rubber surface you use for the serve will also give a variation that will make it hard for the opponent to adjust.

      Like if the SP are red and smooth is black and the SP are on the BH, and when you serve with FH, half the time you serve with the red SP and the other half you serve with the smooth black rubber, it will give your opponent more to have to adjust to because the spin will feel different to the receiver when it comes off the smooth than when it comes of the SP.

      There are a lot of good pips players who will show one surface before the serve and as the are in the serve motion, twiddle so they do the serve with the other rubber. So, showing SP and then serving with smooth or vice versa.

      Last detail on serving:



      That video of Werner Schlager explaining the serve and how to generate different spins in ways that are harder for the opponent to see, is foundational. This is very important information.

      And Schlager had some of the best serves ever so, it is worth watching him serving:



      Notice how much spin he can create just by how good his touch of the ball is. Because of how he touches the ball, gets the ball to sink into the sponge, he can create much more spin than many players who can move the racket faster than he does.

      If you want to understand the art of serving, study how Schlager serves.

    11. Top | #9
      Lula is offline
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      Played with short pimple om forehand over a decade.

      Avoid serves that let you play against backspin. So better to serve nospin, top or sidetop.

      Short pimple really good at counterattack so long fast serves and half long serves is also good.

      Much higher throw and or the use of the body will help you get more spin.

      Work with placement and variation. With short pimple it is just not more or less little spin but as long as they read it wrong.

      Use a grippy short pimple for good spin.

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