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    1. Top | #41
      UpSideDownCarl is online now
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      Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl View Post
      Here, I guess, is a question: if you filmed a NY Yankee game from the audience, would you be allowed to post footage from that game? Or is public use of the footage, for profit, something that would be owned by the NY Yankees or Major League Baseball? And I guess, one of the distinctions is, if someone is posting the footage and profiting. Like, would that be different than if you posted the footage to show the footage, but did not have a for profit YouTube channel?

      I don't know the answers. But, the answers to those question may give insight into the questions you are asking.
      Quote Originally Posted by ejprinz View Post
      First I want to say that I've learned a lot from pingsunday and the EmratThich Youtube channel - Thank You (or Merci beaucoup). With respect to using ITTF footage, this is similar to what is applied say for piano concerts (no recording allowed in concerts, posting on Youtube is copyright infringement).

      In a typical tournament (e.g. the 2019 US Open) the prospectus says:

      MEDIA AND PHOTO RELEASE – Any image, photographic, or otherwise, taken of tournament play or within the official venue is essentially the property of USA Table Tennis regard‐less of the approved status of the recording instrument or photographer. Entrants agree to allow their voice and likeness in such images to be reproduced in connection with USA. Table Tennis by way of any medium. USA Table Tennis is not responsible for nor can they control the use of camera phones inside the venue. Participants are hereby notified of this policy.

      I assume that ITTF tournaments have similar policies. So ITTF likely does own all recordings of tournament action including fanmade ones. It's up to them to what they allow for fair use, and if they inform Youtube of copyright infringement then Youtube's policy applies.

      So as a Youtube channel owner I would focus on creating original content. I've learned a lot more from EmratThich Table Tennis Coach's original insights compared to from videos I can also get from ITTF. So keep the insights coming please ...
      Quote Originally Posted by ejprinz View Post
      No, from YouTube's copyright school:
      https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/2814000?hl=en
      it doesn't make a difference whether you monetize content or not. The only relevant question is whether you infringe someone else's copyright with the content you upload. This is not trivial, for example I just had to check whether my especially poor rendition of Rachmaninoff's 3rd Prelude infringes, luckily he wrote it in 1892 so it doesn't. Also my 2019 (very brief) US Open Game against Danny Seemiller was taken according to the rules as it was my game and I got Danny's permission to upload so my mom could see it too...
      Kudos to EJPrinz for answering the question I asked at the beginning of this thread.

      How these copywrite laws are enforced may seem arbitrary. But it seems, if you go to an ITTF event and film, the content is still owned by ITTF.

      Note the part of the USATT statement:

      "Any image, photographic, or otherwise, taken of tournament play or within the official venue is essentially the property of USA Table Tennis regard‐less of...."

      This means, video of practice of players before the tournament starts also falls into that category. And so would a photo of you with a player if it is at the venue.
      Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 05-11-2020 at 04:07 AM.
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    2. Top | #42
      zyu81 is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by ejprinz View Post
      No, from YouTube's copyright school:
      https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/2814000?hl=en
      it doesn't make a difference whether you monetize content or not. The only relevant question is whether you infringe someone else's copyright with the content you upload. This is not trivial, for example I just had to check whether my especially poor rendition of Rachmaninoff's 3rd Prelude infringes, luckily he wrote it in 1892 so it doesn't. Also my 2019 (very brief) US Open Game against Danny Seemiller was taken according to the rules as it was my game and I got Danny's permission to upload so my mom could see it too...
      Can you upload as private and then send your mother the private link? Or would that get flagged too?

    3. Top | #43
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      Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl View Post
      Kudos to EJPrinz for answering the question I asked at the beginning of this thread.

      How these copywrite laws are enforced may seem arbitrary. But it seems, if you go to an ITTF event and film, the content is still owned by ITTF.

      Note the part of the USATT statement:

      "Any image, photographic, or otherwise, taken of tournament play or within the official venue is essentially the property of USA Table Tennis regard‐less of...."

      This means, video of practice of players before the tournament starts also falls into that category. And so would a photo of you with a player if it is at the venue.
      Do you think it’s possible to ask permission to use ITTF video in YouTube videos? Does ITTF usually allow other to use their footage or do they rarely grant permission?

    4. Top | #44
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      Quote Originally Posted by TheWiseMan View Post
      Do you think it’s possible to ask permission to use ITTF video in YouTube videos? Does ITTF usually allow other to use their footage or do they rarely grant permission?
      Of course you can ask. Will they grant permission? That is the real question.

      And the real info is, if ERT just made his own original footage in his club, of him and the people he actually trains, not only would he make better videos that showed exactly what he was trying to explain with examples of real time students, where people trying to learn on line could see how his students develop over time, he would never have to worry about the fact that it is likely that so many of his videos have copywriter infringements.
      Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 05-11-2020 at 08:26 AM.

    5. Top | #45
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      Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl View Post
      Of course you can ask. Will they grant permission? That is the real question.

      And the real info is, if ERT just made his own original footage in his club, of him and the people he actually trains, not only would he make better videos that showed exactly what he was trying to explain with examples of real time students, where people trying to learn on line could see how his students develop over time, he would never have to worry about the fact that it is likely that so many of his videos have copywriter infringements.
      Apologies, will they grant permission is what I meant. But still, there’s much to be gained from watching professional technique. We don’t necessarily know how good ERT is skill-wise/technically, but we know he’s great at analyzing other’s game. You can zoom up on a ma long serve or look at Fan Zhendong’s footwork in slow motion. But yea, for times when professional footage just isn’t good enough, it might be helpful for ERT to do a live demonstration.

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    7. Top | #46
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      @zyu81: I don't know how Youtube handles private uploads, I assume they are handled the same as public. Also, instead of including someone's content you can always send a link to the original content, that should be OK as it brings the person to the originator's web site and so allows the originator to monetize.

      As for my 2019 US Open video, the organizer specifically allowed everyone to tape their own matches as long as the opponent agreed to it, so I could actually upload it legally to public Youtube (not that anyone wants to watch it except my family but still ...). Note that I had played again for 1 year after a long break so I felt pretty good about my performance (I ended up around 1300 ranking USATT).

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    9. Top | #47
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      I agree, he might be a good analyzer but don't ask for footage anymore it's such a hardest thing and you will never have it.
      If someone can benefit from his videos, keeps watching it. If not, just ignore.
      Btw probably his English can cause some misunderstand. The "secret" email should be "private" email (Hopefully I understand right as we are compatriot - Vietnamese )

    10. Top | #48
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      Quote Originally Posted by TheWiseMan View Post
      Apologies, will they grant permission is what I meant. But still, there’s much to be gained from watching professional technique. We don’t necessarily know how good ERT is skill-wise/technically, but we know he’s great at analyzing other’s game. You can zoom up on a ma long serve or look at Fan Zhendong’s footwork in slow motion. But yea, for times when professional footage just isn’t good enough, it might be helpful for ERT to do a live demonstration.
      Well sorry, but you're wrong here. Yes, there are things that can be learned from watching professional technique. But for a beginner to try to copy every single thing a pro does is going to be more destructive rather than helpful. It is running before you can walk. Second...

      No, we don't know that he's great at analyzing pro's game. Anybody can look at something that is near perfect and tell you why it is good. But what makes a coach a coach is that they can look at something that is imperfect, tell you which aspects are okay, which aspects need to be improved, in what order the pieces of improvement need to be assembled, etc. None of us here are going to be Ma Long, but can a coach help you be the best version of yourself within your limitations? Or can he only show you what a perfect state is and just hope that you can maybe take a few things from that perfect state? Would you want to learn driving from some kid who watched a bunch of Formula 1 videos? Or someone who you can verify actually knows how to drive and can teach it? And do you think the results for you will be good if you learned from the guy who watched a bunch of Formula 1 videos and told you what to do based on that?

      It is telling that every single other reputable online coach takes the complete opposite approach of EmRatThich, they actually demonstrate, explain, and most importantly, put in context the things they are explaining. To name a few, William Henzell, Brett Clarke, Eli Baraty, Yang Yang Jia, Tomorrow Table Tennis, Samson Dubina, Tom Lodziak, PingSkills, TTD, TableTennisUniversity, Brian Pace, etc. The fact that EmRatThich has NEVER done this and has dodged all questions about it should tell you what you need to know. He's just a fan of table tennis that likes sharing content. Some of it can definitely be useful if viewers already have enough understanding of where those things fit into their game and how/when to apply it. But that isn't the majority of his viewers and he knows that. I am not sure if he has ever mentioned this important distinction, if he has that is great, if not, that is concerning.
      Last edited by zyu81; 05-11-2020 at 03:38 PM.

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    12. Top | #49
      UpSideDownCarl is online now
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      Quote Originally Posted by TheWiseMan View Post
      Apologies, will they grant permission is what I meant.
      One cannot know until one asks. I guess it might depend on the reasons and circumstances. Also, if the person asking for permission is making money off the footage, usually, I would suspect that that would include a contract and a certain percentage of the profits.



      Quote Originally Posted by TheWiseMan View Post
      But still, there’s much to be gained from watching professional technique.
      Sure. But it is perhaps confusing to watch a pro doing one thing while a technique that they are not specifically demonstrating is being described.

      Quote Originally Posted by TheWiseMan View Post
      We don’t necessarily know how good ERT is skill-wise/technically, but we know he’s great at analyzing other’s game.
      I think ERT is good enough to show exactly what he means. And it should not matter if he does not look like Ma Long when he plays. It is clear that the techniques he talks about are a real thing. It is not clear that they are "Chinese Secretes". But I am also not so sure it is clear he actually analyzes other people's games. He talks about techniques to help you improve. He should be able to show those techniques through his students, or by himself. In fact, I am sure he could. And everything I have heard from ERT videos, I heard from multiple western coaches years before ERT was making videos. So, the information is good. It would just be more effective as a learning tool if he was showing exactly what he meant.

      Also, Zyu's point about progression of teaching is important. If you teach someone one thing when they have not laid the groundwork for that technique, it can and will slow the progression of the person or make the person actually become less proficient. Sometimes, a technique, when a person is not ready for it can cause injury as well.

      Quote Originally Posted by TheWiseMan View Post
      You can zoom up on a ma long serve or look at Fan Zhendong’s footwork in slow motion. But yea, for times when professional footage just isn’t good enough, it might be helpful for ERT to do a live demonstration.
      I don't think there would be anything wrong with ERT telling you to watch ML or ZJK or any number of other players to look for what he was talking about. You can find those elements by watching while seeing him show it in real time, or, again, some of his students. But he does not need to post footage that he did not film, that is actually under copyright by some organization like the ITTF to make his videos. He can refer to videos but still use all his own content. So, the question is, why it seems he just will not do that.

      And a good coach will always have some decent level students to use for demonstrating certain techniques. The better the coach in real time, the more higher level students that coach will be training. Right? So, there should be no shortage of good examples from up and coming kids. ......"watch how this kid does it......now go look at this match of Ma Long v FZD and see how ML does it." There can be no possibility of a copyright infringement when you are not lifting other people's footage.
      Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 05-11-2020 at 05:28 PM.

    13. Top | #50
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      Quote Originally Posted by zyu81 View Post
      Well sorry, but you're wrong here. Yes, there are things that can be learned from watching professional technique. But for a beginner to try to copy every single thing a pro does is going to be more destructive rather than helpful. It is running before you can walk. Second...

      No, we don't know that he's great at analyzing pro's game. Anybody can look at something that is near perfect and tell you why it is good. But what makes a coach a coach is that they can look at something that is imperfect, tell you which aspects are okay, which aspects need to be improved, in what order the pieces of improvement need to be assembled, etc. None of us here are going to be Ma Long, but can a coach help you be the best version of yourself within your limitations? Or can he only show you what a perfect state is and just hope that you can maybe take a few things from that perfect state? Would you want to learn driving from some kid who watched a bunch of Formula 1 videos? Or someone who you can verify actually knows how to drive and can teach it? And do you think the results for you will be good if you learned from the guy who watched a bunch of Formula 1 videos and told you what to do based on that?

      It is telling that every single other reputable online coach takes the complete opposite approach of EmRatThich, they actually demonstrate, explain, and most importantly, put in context the things they are explaining. To name a few, William Henzell, Brett Clarke, Eli Baraty, Yang Yang Jia, Tomorrow Table Tennis, Samson Dubina, Tom Lodziak, PingSkills, TTD, TableTennisUniversity, Brian Pace, etc. The fact that EmRatThich has NEVER done this and has dodged all questions about it should tell you what you need to know. He's just a fan of table tennis that likes sharing content. Some of it can definitely be useful if viewers already have enough understanding of where those things fit into their game and how/when to apply it. But that isn't the majority of his viewers and he knows that. I am not sure if he has ever mentioned this important distinction, if he has that is great, if not, that is concerning.
      Starting from the top, you stated that for a beginner, to try to copy everything from a pro player is destructive rather than helpful. Firstly, as a YouTuber you can choose to highlight the fundamentals and the basic technique of the pro rather than his advanced moves. For example, watching forehand technique from Ma Long can at least tell a beginner what is the correct form of a forehand. Otherwise, you’re left watching and learning from an inferior forehand technique. Secondly, we don’t really know if beginner players are ERT’s target market. With YouTubers like Tom Lodziak making live videos geared towards beginners, it’s actually more beneficial for ERT to brand himself as someone unique, someone making content for intermediate to advanced players with pro player analysis.

      Your second paragraph is a good reason for why YouTube videos shouldn’t be substitute for real training and coaching. If one wishes to improve, they need to actually put in the time and effort and get personalized coaching to see what mistakes they are making. Everyone has a different play style... everyone has different strengths/weaknesses and YouTuber’s aren’t going to analyze your game and tell you how to improve. That job is up to your real coach. What you should be doing is using YouTube as a supplement for your real training.

      For the formula 1 analogy, I’d agree if you were just trying to learning how to drive. You can’t learn how to drive just by watching Formula 1 videos. But if you’re an intermediate or advanced driver, you can see exactly what the pros are doing to get those insane times and try integrating those pieces into your driving. And in the analogy, ERT would be pointing out things about a professional’s driving style that someone a bit inexperienced wouldn’t notice. So as you mentioned, it really comes down to what audience is ERT making content for... and again if someone truly is just starting the sport, the real improvement should come from practice and the suggestions of your coach.

    14. Top | #51
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      Quote Originally Posted by TheWiseMan View Post
      Starting from the top, you stated that for a beginner, to try to copy everything from a pro player is destructive rather than helpful. Firstly, as a YouTuber you can choose to highlight the fundamentals and the basic technique of the pro rather than his advanced moves. For example, watching forehand technique from Ma Long can at least tell a beginner what is the correct form of a forehand. Otherwise, you’re left watching and learning from an inferior forehand technique. Secondly, we don’t really know if beginner players are ERT’s target market. With YouTubers like Tom Lodziak making live videos geared towards beginners, it’s actually more beneficial for ERT to brand himself as someone unique, someone making content for intermediate to advanced players with pro player analysis.

      Your second paragraph is a good reason for why YouTube videos shouldn’t be substitute for real training and coaching. If one wishes to improve, they need to actually put in the time and effort and get personalized coaching to see what mistakes they are making. Everyone has a different play style... everyone has different strengths/weaknesses and YouTuber’s aren’t going to analyze your game and tell you how to improve. That job is up to your real coach. What you should be doing is using YouTube as a supplement for your real training.

      For the formula 1 analogy, I’d agree if you were just trying to learning how to drive. You can’t learn how to drive just by watching Formula 1 videos. But if you’re an intermediate or advanced driver, you can see exactly what the pros are doing to get those insane times and try integrating those pieces into your driving. And in the analogy, ERT would be pointing out things about a professional’s driving style that someone a bit inexperienced wouldn’t notice. So as you mentioned, it really comes down to what audience is ERT making content for... and again if someone truly is just starting the sport, the real improvement should come from practice and the suggestions of your coach.
      I noticed you're new to TTD so if I may ask, how long have you been playing table tennis? What's your coaching and playing experience like? I'd like to have a rough idea where you're coming from when you imply that the best way for a beginner to learn a forehand is to look at the technique they see a pro doing and just try to mirror all those motions. What if I told you that a good portion of beginners who go and try to imitate a Ma Long forehand have neither the timing nor positioning nor probably ball feel to even get that loop off even if they could mirror the motions exactly?

      It is highly likely that most people who are seeking advice on YouTube are those who do not have ample resources available to them in person.

      As I mentioned, if he were placing his various tips into context (some will be more applicable to beginners, some more applicable to advanced, etc.) that would be a little more accepatable. I don't watch the videos anymore but I watched a few that relate to more advanced technique and didn't hear him alluding to any of that. Mainly, I also am just not a huge fan of the fact that he tries to talk so extensively about Chinese training when he hasn't detailed any of his experience with Chinese training.
      Last edited by zyu81; 05-11-2020 at 08:46 PM.

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    16. Top | #52
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      Quote Originally Posted by TheWiseMan View Post
      ....it’s actually more beneficial for ERT to brand himself as someone unique, someone making content for intermediate to advanced players with pro player analysis.
      Something on this....one of the things about the techniques ERT talks about, any player decently advanced to be at an intermediate level or higher, will likely already know and be doing any of the stuff that ERT labels advanced, and any of the stuff that ERT has labeled "Chinese Secrets" are usually really simple pieces of information that many (really any) decent coaches will know, and are information I have heard from many western coaches.

      So, I definitely don't think ERT is marketing himself to advanced or high level intermediate players. I do think he may be targeting low level players who would like to think of themselves as being in the category you mentioned. And I do know there are some mid level players who like ERT. So I think there is some value. But a lot of the time, the things he gets mid level players who like him to realize are things they were already doing without thinking about it. Adult learners can be like that.

      But I still think he would be more effective with his videos if he could show himself what he means.

    17. Top | #53
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      Quote Originally Posted by zyu81 View Post
      I noticed you're new to TTD so if I may ask, how long have you been playing table tennis? What's your coaching and playing experience like? I'd like to have a rough idea where you're coming from when you imply that the best way for a beginner to learn a forehand is to look at the technique they see a pro doing and just try to mirror all those motions. What if I told you that a good portion of beginners who go and try to imitate a Ma Long forehand have neither the timing nor positioning nor probably ball feel to even get that loop off even if they could mirror the motions exactly?

      It is highly likely that most people who are seeking advice on YouTube are those who do not have ample resources available to them in person.

      As I mentioned, if he were placing his various tips into context (some will be more applicable to beginners, some more applicable to advanced, etc.) that would be a little more accepatable. I don't watch the videos anymore but I watched a few that relate to more advanced technique and didn't hear him alluding to any of that. Mainly, I also am just not a huge fan of the fact that he tries to talk so extensively about Chinese training when he hasn't detailed any of his experience with Chinese training.
      No worries, I’ve played table tennis for around 8-9 years now and I don’t have any professional coaching experience. Got coaching from Chinese coaches for most of my table tennis “career”, and stopped getting coaching or playing in tournaments/leagues around the 9th year since I had other obligations.

      So, I’d like to reiterate that I’ve never said watching Ma Long play is the best way for beginners to learn. I apologize for the lack of clarity, but in my second and third paragraph I was explaining that the best way for a beginner to learn is through practice and real life, personalized coaching. Watching Ma Long should act as a supplement. And moreover, I was emphasizing the fact that watching Ma Long is something geared towards intermediate+ level players rather than beginners (in the Formula 1 analogy), although it certainly can be of benefit to beginners if used correctly. If u want an example as to how watching Ma Long can supplement coaching for a beginner, I’d be happy to provide it. But the main point is, I’ve never said that watching professional play is the best way beginners to learn. Hope that helps

    18. Top | #54
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      Quote Originally Posted by TheWiseMan View Post
      No worries, I’ve played table tennis for around 8-9 years now and I don’t have any professional coaching experience. Got coaching from Chinese coaches for most of my table tennis “career”, and stopped getting coaching or playing in tournaments/leagues around the 9th year since I had other obligations.

      So, I’d like to reiterate that I’ve never said watching Ma Long play is the best way for beginners to learn. I apologize for the lack of clarity, but in my second and third paragraph I was explaining that the best way for a beginner to learn is through practice and real life, personalized coaching. Watching Ma Long should act as a supplement. And moreover, I was emphasizing the fact that watching Ma Long is something geared towards intermediate+ level players rather than beginners (in the Formula 1 analogy), although it certainly can be of benefit to beginners if used correctly. If u want an example as to how watching Ma Long can supplement coaching for a beginner, I’d be happy to provide it. But the main point is, I’ve never said that watching professional play is the best way beginners to learn. Hope that helps
      Thanks for sharing. I think we are mostly in agreement. Essentially my question comes down to why someone would choose to watch EmRatThich and try to visualize and interpret things in their head based on what he is saying, rather than watch literally any of the other coaches who actually demonstrate and expand upon what they are saying. And why someone would choose the guy with unconfirmed credentials combined with statements that are proven to be false (the constant stressing of the "Chinese" way) instead of literally any of the other online coaches with proven track records. I think this is a key point, not just because it is annoying, but also because someone who actually has experience in table tennis would NEVER say that "only the Chinese do X". However, I suppose clickbait works and that is why all the YouTubers do it nowadays.
      Last edited by zyu81; 05-12-2020 at 12:21 AM.

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    20. Top | #55
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      Quote Originally Posted by zyu81 View Post
      Thanks for sharing. I think we are mostly in agreement. Essentially my question comes down to why someone would choose to watch EmRatThich and try to visualize and interpret things in their head based on what he is saying, rather than watch literally any of the other coaches who actually demonstrate and expand upon what they are saying. And why someone would choose the guy with unconfirmed credentials combined with statements that are proven to be false (the constant stressing of the "Chinese" way) instead of literally any of the other online coaches with proven track records. I think this is a key point, not just because it is annoying, but also because someone who actually has experience in table tennis would NEVER say that "only the Chinese do X". However, I suppose clickbait works and that is why all the YouTubers do it nowadays.
      Agreed!! I think a lot of his endorsement of Chinese technique is probably just clickbait mixed with personal bias. It definitely gets a bit annoying!

      So as for your question, I’ll give you two perspectives. On one hand, if you’re just starting off, ERT probably isn’t the channel for you. Like you said, watching the other coaches on YouTube who do live demonstrations (Samson Dubina, Tom Lodziak,etc.) might help beginners to really understand the fundamental technique and basics. On the other hand, if you’re a bit more experienced and your fundamentals are sound, you might be able to learn a thing or two from ERT’s analysis of pro players. I’m not saying ERT’s channel is a gold mine of hidden table tennis knowledge, but occasionally I’ve learned a few interesting things. At the advanced level, I’d say watching Gar Parrell do his serve would be more helpful than watching ERT’s attempt at doing Gar’s serve. But then again, if ERT is a professional, and he could actually replicate Gar’s serve or Ma Long’s technique... you might learn more.

      Yea, seems like we’re almost in agreement!

    21. Top | #56
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      Quote Originally Posted by TheWiseMan View Post
      Agreed!! I think a lot of his endorsement of Chinese technique is probably just clickbait mixed with personal bias. It definitely gets a bit annoying!

      So as for your question, I’ll give you two perspectives. On one hand, if you’re just starting off, ERT probably isn’t the channel for you. Like you said, watching the other coaches on YouTube who do live demonstrations (Samson Dubina, Tom Lodziak,etc.) might help beginners to really understand the fundamental technique and basics. On the other hand, if you’re a bit more experienced and your fundamentals are sound, you might be able to learn a thing or two from ERT’s analysis of pro players. I’m not saying ERT’s channel is a gold mine of hidden table tennis knowledge, but occasionally I’ve learned a few interesting things. At the advanced level, I’d say watching Gar Parrell do his serve would be more helpful than watching ERT’s attempt at doing Gar’s serve. But then again, if ERT is a professional, and he could actually replicate Gar’s serve or Ma Long’s technique... you might learn more.

      Yea, seems like we’re almost in agreement!
      The thing I would say here, if ERT was taking clips of pro players and breaking down what they are actually doing, and going from clip to clip, showing the clip a few times, pointing out how they are doing something specific that they are actually doing, and then going on to the next clip.....that would actually be okay.

      But a lot of what he is actually doing is taking arbitrary clips that don't not show what he is saying. But they also don't really show what he is saying. It is a clip where the pro may or may not be doing what he is saying but if they are doing it it is incidental and the result of them having good technique.

      He is taking points that he has decided he wants to make and he is making those points over footage that arbitrarily chosen. I can watch the footage without him making the same simple points over and over. And I am convinced I see more without the noise he is making over the footage.
      Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 05-12-2020 at 04:00 AM.

    22. Top | #57
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      Quote Originally Posted by Zyu81
      ...Well sorry, but you're wrong here. Yes, there are things that can be learned from watching professional technique. But for a beginner to try to copy every single thing a pro does is going to be more destructive rather than helpful. It is running before you can walk. Second...…
      All this talk about ETR made me watch my first vid of hiz… amazingly, EMT was relating a story about development that pretty much agrees with this approach. (Get a certain foundation before developing and utilizing a certain other advanced technique)
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    23. Top | #58
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      To add to this point I am going to use an analogy.

      Way back in the 1780s when I was in college, I learned that, if I really wanted to write a paper well, I could do a ton of research, find quotes from within the research and write the paper pointing out what the research showed and putting in the quotes and references to support that I understood the work and used it to make my paper's thesis.

      Or, if I did not have the time or the interest to do all that research and hard work at really understanding the material I was working with, I could just write whatever subject I felt like, and I could open multiple books at random, choosing quotes from all over the place, put them in the paper with the proper references and make the quotes fit what I wanted to say in the first place without having much of an idea of the context within which the authors had used the quotes I chose or what the whole work the quote was from was about.

      It was sort of a scam that made it look like, either I had read every book in the library and my paper was so well researched that it drew on all that material, or I was just pulling arbitrary quotes and making it seem like they said what I wanted them to say.

      Well, the way ERT pulls footage and puts it into his videos, it looks to me like he is doing that second thing.

      The points he makes are good. The footage is good. They don't have much to do with each other. But people don't realize because the simple things he talks about, they would be in most footage.

      I think I was watching one of his videos where he was talking about gripping the blade face with the index finger and thumb and apply pressure on contact to generate more spin. The point is a good one. Grip pressure is central to how you touch the ball and generate spin. But he was showing this clip of a guy looping over and over and there is no way you could see what the guy was doing with his index finger and thumb; the clip simply had nothing to do with his thesis about grip pressure and how it helped you create more spin.

      So, there is a lot of that. And at a certain point, it is worth calling that what it is.
      Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 05-12-2020 at 04:17 AM.

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    25. Top | #59
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      Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl View Post
      The thing I would say here, if ERT was taking clips of pro players and breaking down what they are actually doing, and going from clip to clip, showing the clip a few times, pointing out how they are doing something specific that they are actually doing, and then going on to the next clip.....that would actually be okay.

      But a lot of what he is actually doing is taking arbitrary clips that don't not show what he is saying. But they also don't really show what he is saying. It is a clip where the pro may or may not be doing what he is saying but if they are doing it it is incidental and the result of them having good technique.

      He is taking points that he has decided he wants to make and he is making those points over footage that arbitrarily chosen. I can watch the footage without him making the same simple points over and over. And I am convinced I see more without the noise he is making over the footage.
      Yea, I think you have a point there. Its kinda just background footage most of the time so that the video isn’t just a black screen. He’s gone over specific clips with specific example before, but he doesn’t do it nearly enough.

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    27. Top | #60
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