Innerforce Layer ALC blade compared with ZLF version

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Hello Dan. I am trying to decide on a new blade which represents a significant investment for me. I am considering the InnerforceLayer ALC which you changed to recently. My dilemma is whether to try the ZLFversion but I am reading conflicting comparisons for speed and control and can’t see why I would go for the ZLF. Presumably you tried the ZLF but decided on the ALC. I would appreciate it if you could give me your comparisons between the two blades and why you settled on the ALC.
Thanks
 
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I had chance to play with Old
ZLF, ZLF layer, layer ZLC, layer ALC, layer ALC s, Liu shiwen ZLF, Ai fukuhara ZLF.
I dont know what yall want to know.
I really liked layer alc and layer zlf
If you like hard rubbers l alc is better and faster
Layer zlf is better for soft rubbers and its slower.
I always work on setup
Rubbers weight =/= sponge hardness
 
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I had chance to play with Old
ZLF, ZLF layer, layer ZLC, layer ALC, layer ALC s, Liu shiwen ZLF, Ai fukuhara ZLF.
I dont know what yall want to know.
I really liked layer alc and layer zlf
If you like hard rubbers l alc is better and faster
Layer zlf is better for soft rubbers and its slower.
I always work on setup
Rubbers weight =/= sponge hardness

Thank you Konrad. I was wondering what the advantage of the ZLF was and whether to spend the extra money especially when the stats seem almost identical. As far as I can see the ZLF gives a theoretical larger sweet spot but is the same other than that.
I am thinking of trying the TSP 6.5mm balsa off blade with Dignics 09C. Super control to give great confidence and good speed when the blade is engaged fully to compensate for the rubber being a bit on the slow side. Also the D09C is quite heavy and the lighter balsa blade would offset that.
 
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says Spin and more spin.
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Basmundo, you are better off seeing if you can find someone with the blades you are interested in and trying them. Different people have different feel in their hand and the questions you are asking will be felt differently by different people.

What is your current setup? Why do you want to change?

You said something about the purchase being a significant investment for you. If these blades are hard to afford, why would you choose some of the most expensive blades on the market. There are blades that are similar but made by companies that are not quite as expensive. The performance is similar. And the blades cost 1/3 the price. Why not try finding blades that you can afford?

Also, you are asking people to help you with information about a blade purchase. But we don't know how you play, how long you have played, your general skill level. That information would be useful as well.
 
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Basmundo, you are better off seeing if you can find someone with the blades you are interested in and trying them. Different people have different feel in their hand and the questions you are asking will be felt differently by different people.

What is your current setup? Why do you want to change?

You said something about the purchase being a significant investment for you. If these blades are hard to afford, why would you choose some of the most expensive blades on the market. There are blades that are similar but made by companies that are not quite as expensive. The performance is similar. And the blades cost 1/3 the price. Why not try finding blades that you can afford?

Also, you are asking people to help you with information about a blade purchase. But we don't know how you play, how long you have played, your general skill level. That information would be useful as well.

Thank you Carl. Your constructive comments are very much appreciated. I returned to the game about 18 months ago after a considerable break. I have fairly quickly returned to what I would suggest is an intermediate level and have used a progression of setups as follows:-
1. Tibhar Drinkhall Allround Classic blade with Joola Mambo-H on BH and Joola Energy X-tra on FH.
2. Avalox P500 blade with Victas VS>402 Limber on BH and Joola Energy X-tra on FH.
3. Joola Aruna Off blade with Tibhar Evolution FX-S on BH and Tibhar Evolution EL-S on FH.
4. TSP Balsa 6.5mm OFF blade with Joola Rhyzer 43 on BH and Joola Rhyzer Pro 45 on FH. (Current).

Due to nursing a sick relative since September 2019, and the current lockdown situation, I have had a lot of time to read around the subject and do probably get caught up in some of the advertising claims.

My game is offensive and consists simply of gaining the opportunity to use my BH loop or FH loop and topspin drive to take control of the rally. My game is fairly effective but I am, in particular looking for an improvement in achieving open-ups more quickly using BH and FH flicks/banana/Chiquita etc.

I am particularly drawn to the claimed characteristics of the new Dignics 09C rubber which appears to have everything that I am looking for in that it has very high levels of spin and control and is not quite as fast as T05. I particularly like the idea of the extra lift possible from the tacky rubber for BH banana flicks from mid-table together with the high level of control that is possible with this rubber and its high level of spin.

While investing so much in rubbers I felt that I needed to put the rubbers on what appears to be an ideal blade for me: The Butterfly Innerforce Later ALC with is slightly dumbed down speed compared with other ALC blades and with the subsequent improved control. How can I loose with such a setup! I had thought of using the rubbers on the TSP Balsa 6.5mm OFF blade. I had chosen this previously due to, what appeared to be, an ideal balance between speed and control. They are claimed to have great control for a light touch and high speed when the blade is engaged for strong hits. However the Dignics 09C rubber is renowned for being particularly heavy and I wondered if the overall setup could be imbalanced as a result. Hence my other thread on the Forum regarding bat balance!

Although a better blade and rubbers doesn't make you a better player, assuming that the setup is suitable for your game and skill level, having confidence in your setup must be important in match play.

Thank you once again for taking the time out to contribute what is of great value to me.
 
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says Spin and more spin.
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One thing I would say is, you should question why, in 18 months you have had 4 setups. That is an average of a new setup every 4.5 months.

In looking, my guess is the second setup could have been an improvement. The third setup may have been better in some ways and worse for you in others. But the blade with a 6.5mm Balsa Core.....this tells me something....and some of what it tells me is, you probably would be better off putting whatever rubbers you want on the Avalox P500 blade and call it a day. Or getting a Xiom Offensive S, or a Nittaku Acoustic, or an OSP Virtuoso Off- or Plus, Primorac Off-, Korbel, Stratus Power Wood.....put whatever rubbers you want on something like that.

Any chance you can show footage of your play. That might change my mind. That is very possible since it sounds like you used to play, stopped, and started again 18 months ago. But based on how you described how you play, I listed blades that would probably make more sense for you and most of them will cost much less than what you are looking at.
 
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I had the same idea, when I saw your 4 equipments but my english is not perfect so I cant say with the same easy words.
P500 + Rasanter R/V 47/48/50/53 or Rhyzer 45/48/50, Fastarc G1/P1, TSP Ventus Speed/ SUPER / Rakza 7/9/10 Donic Bluestorm Z1/Z2/Z1Turbo, Gewo Nexxus EL/XT 48/50/53, Xiom Vega Pro/X/Tour, Xiom Omega V PRO/TOUR/ASIA, Omega VII TOUR/ASIA, Evolution MXP/ MXS/MXK, MXP50, Victas V15 Limber/Stiff/Extra, Victas VS 402 Double Extra, DHS Goldarc 8 47.5/50, Butterfly Tenergy 05/80/64+ fx and H version
Dignics/Dynaryz, Stiga Mantra M/H, Stiga DNA pro M/H
and everything will be OK.
 
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One thing I would say is, you should question why, in 18 months you have had 4 setups. That is an average of a new setup every 4.5 months.

In looking, my guess is the second setup could have been an improvement. The third setup may have been better in some ways and worse for you in others. But the blade with a 6.5mm Balsa Core.....this tells me something....and some of what it tells me is, you probably would be better off putting whatever rubbers you want on the Avalox P500 blade and call it a day. Or getting a Xiom Offensive S, or a Nittaku Acoustic, or an OSP Virtuoso Off- or Plus, Primorac Off-, Korbel, Stratus Power Wood.....put whatever rubbers you want on something like that.

Any chance you can show footage of your play. That might change my mind. That is very possible since it sounds like you used to play, stopped, and started again 18 months ago. But based on how you described how you play, I listed blades that would probably make more sense for you and most of them will cost much less than what you are looking at.

Thank you Carl
The reason for the frequent change of setup was I think because I started with a setup that was recommended and which I felt was I too slow. I quickly improved and gradually increased the responsiveness of the setups. I was probably too overcautious having had it impressed upon me that a too advanced setup would hinder the development of my game. As the setups have increased in speed I have found that I have been able to adjust to them fairly quickly and each one has helped me improve my performance.
I also was housebound for a lot of the time, even before Covid, due to nursing my wife, and I did spend a lot of time occupying myself by looking at the various stats for blades and rubbers and probably bought excessively for a bit of retail therapy.
It is interesting that you seem to favour the P500 blade over all others and the converse seems to be true of the TSP balsa blade, aying that it tells you something? Your thoughts on the reason for the blade recommendations would be of value to me. Meanwhile I will look at those listed and compare their stats on Revspin to try and understand your recommendations.

Do you have any thoughts on rubbers, particularly my feeling that the new Dignics 09C would appear ideal for my game which relies heavily on spin.

Unfortunately I do not have any footage of me playing.

Thanks again Carl. Keep safe.
 
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I had the same idea, when I saw your 4 equipments but my english is not perfect so I cant say with the same easy words.
P500 + Rasanter R/V 47/48/50/53 or Rhyzer 45/48/50, Fastarc G1/P1, TSP Ventus Speed/ SUPER / Rakza 7/9/10 Donic Bluestorm Z1/Z2/Z1Turbo, Gewo Nexxus EL/XT 48/50/53, Xiom Vega Pro/X/Tour, Xiom Omega V PRO/TOUR/ASIA, Omega VII TOUR/ASIA, Evolution MXP/ MXS/MXK, MXP50, Victas V15 Limber/Stiff/Extra, Victas VS 402 Double Extra, DHS Goldarc 8 47.5/50, Butterfly Tenergy 05/80/64+ fx and H version
Dignics/Dynaryz, Stiga Mantra M/H, Stiga DNA pro M/H
and everything will be OK.

Thank you Konrad for joining the discussion with Carl.
You also seem to favour the P500 blade with an array of various rubber recommendations. Is it possible for you to narrow down the recommendation to what might be best, understanding that you have not seen me play. What are your thoughts on Dignics 09C which appears ideal for spin coupled with control?
I will try and evaluate the various rubbers on your list to see what the common thread is with them.
 
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Bro. It cost too much and There is no value in this rubber.
Vs 402 double extra is semi tacky rubber like 09c
The sponge wont be as good as Dignics 09 c
But it cost 1/3
You propably want to impress people with new new rubber.
This is your money and everybody will be more impressive when you will be better player and they wont be jealous about your richness or dumbness.
Practice more.
 
says Spin and more spin.
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It is interesting that you seem to favour the P500 blade over all others and the converse seems to be true of the TSP balsa blade, aying that it tells you something?

P500 is a looping blade. You said the main part of your game is trying to loop with FH and BH. P500 is thin and flexible but still not slow. If your mechanics are good, you can make very powerful, very spinny shots with a P500. Kong Linghui won the World Championships with the P500 before Butterfly signed him and made a blade that was an imitation of the P500 and is also an excellent blade. Too bad Butterfly no longer makes their original Kong Linghui blade. It was a really nice blade.

But, of the other blades I mentioned--Acoustic, Virtuoso Plus, Korbel, Stratus Power Wood--those are still looping blades but they are a little faster than the P500. Any of those wood be good as well.

What characteristics do I say make them looping blades. They are relatively thin. All are all thinner than just the core of the TSP Balsa 6.5 blade. So they have more flex. They are all wood so they will give you more ball feel, help you hold the ball on the blade face longer, help you feel the distortion of the topsheet when you grab the ball, and therefore they will help you generate more spin. And they are all fast enough. Anyone with solid technique whose legs, hips and core are timed well to the whip of their stroke will be able to make evil loops with any of those blades.

The Balsa 6.5 is a blade that is best suited to slapping the hell out of the ball. It is thick, stiff (the 6.5mm Balsa Core ensures that). The fiberglass also ensures that it is stiff. This makes it so the ball rebounds very fast off the blade face which makes it hard to hold the ball on the blade face. If you played a lot of flat hits, slap kills, smashes or played with Short Pips, the Balsa 6.5 would be ideal. That you are not feeling that you are using a blade that is great for direct contact but makes it notably harder to generate more spin in loop/counterloop rallies tells me, either you are soooooo good that you should not be asking anyone for equipment advice and should be a in the top 50 in UK. Or, that you cannot tell that the equipment you are using is not suited to the style you at least described as what you play.

Either way, a blade that is good for looping would be quite okay for the crazy advanced player or the player who is developing skillz.

By the way, it is very common for mid-level (intermediate level) players to use equipment that is too fast for them and hinders their progress without knowing and they get used to that and then something that is actually a suitable speed feels too slow because the fast blade made it so they did not have to learn how to put the power of their body behind their shots. This is very common.

As far as recommending rubbers....I am of the opinion that, without seeing you play, any offensive rubber from any company should be fine. The list Konrad Bak left is good. Close your eyes and choose. They all will be fine. Dignics 09C? If you want to spend the money, go for it.

Have you ever played with boosted H3? Regular H3 Boosted may play sort of similar to D09C if it is the rubber I think you mean. I also think it would be worth you trying Dignics 09C before buying it. You should see how these rubbers (both D09C and boosted H3) play on someone else's setup before you spend all that money on D09C or any other rubber. It might be amazing. But it is a very specialized rubber.


I would really say that about almost any blade or rubber. If you can get club mates to let you try their equipment for a few hits for several months, you will know better things that feel good to you. Unfortunately, as stated above, sometimes what feels best to someone is not exactly what will be best for them. :) But at least you are making choices based on having felt the equipment rather than on someone writing something on the internet.

Reading reviews and descriptions of equipment on line can get you caught up in buying a lot of TT equipment you did not need. It could also get you thinking something about equipment that is not very accurate. Some of the variables from the people who write equipment reviews on line:

1) You don't know the level of the player, and frankly, a player who is not very high level may not be able to feel half of what a piece of equipment gives them or doesn't.
2) It is hard to tell if the person writing the review has had experience with lots of other equipment or if they have not.
3) What one person feels is usually nothing close to what you will feel from the same equipment because everyone's senses are different.

Online reviews are great for the TT companies for getting people to think they need things they don't. So, in one sense, if you can afford it, that is fine. But in another sense, that is a problem because it means people end up with equipment that does not fit their needs without the person being able to tell that what they have is not suited to their needs.

Without seeing footage of you playing, I really can't say much. I really could be totally right or totally wrong in how I have interpreted what you presented. But the base level of any of those looping blades I mentioned, including the slightly slower ones from the earlier post, with a mid soft/mid hard offensive rubber that is middle of the road, is all that most amateurs need. And I know some high level pros who still use just that. So it can't be that you are too good to use equipment that is designed for looping. :)
 
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There is three version of Kong linghui blade.
I show you all wood 5,4 mm with composition : koto Spruce ayous which is the same blade as P500 and Butterfly still produce them or sell them for different countries.

You can find Euro version with yellow anigre as top ply
And special version with hinoki and Alc.
 
says Spin and more spin.
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There is three version of Kong linghui blade.
I show you all wood 5,4 mm with composition : koto Spruce ayous which is the same blade as P500 and Butterfly still produce them or sell them for different countries.

You can find Euro version with yellow anigre as top ply
And special version with hinoki and Alc.

Okay. Maybe that is the original one.
 
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it is still good blade, for me Avalox looks very fresh because they have tradition and they did blades for Chinese players so this is not company from nowhere. People always see butterfly but for me there is big big rivarly on the market.
you can find xiom blades AZX and AZXi, Calderano SAL, HAL,
Joola premium products like Zalebro, Nobilis, Energon and Vyzaryz line.
New Tibhar products like Shang Kun Hybrid AC and ZC, Cedric Nuytinck ZC and Kinetic Speed, Fortino Pro

so maybe people should find new heroes than looks for old overpriced Butterfly blades.
 
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