Innerforce Layer ALC blade compared with ZLF version

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Silly boy. How many people have told you to ignore those types of BS numbers. It is really like listening to a broken record hearing you ask different people the same questions over and over. hahahahaha.

And control is not in a blade or the rubbers. It is in your hand.

I know :(. Just wanted to ask IB66 his impression of the blades based on the confusing stats quoted for them. So in fact I was rubbishing the stats effectively. You see I do learn eventually :)
 
says toooooo much choice!!
says toooooo much choice!!
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Hi fellas,
the Primorac and Grubba are very similar, I feel the Primorac is a tad faster.
i looked at maze and boll all round blades as well, but went for the Primorac because Butterfly say it’s their best selling blade (or one of them) could be advertising hype, but if they have sold loads, then that many people can’t be wrong!!!!!
the un-boosted H3 Nat plays virtually the same on both blades, I can’t really feel much difference, maybe the slightly extra speed on the primorac may add about 50mm to the length of a similarity hit loop, hard to say, that’s how close the 2 blades are to each other.
cant compare the 09C between the 2 blades as it’s only been on the Primorac. BH only, I have an old style long FH looping action and hit Fastish / hardish , the spring sponge X is too lively for me, I have trouble adjusting to the additional length it brings. But on the BH side I’m starting to like it more and more.
Maybe I should give the 09C more of a chance on the FH, but I feel that when pushed or rushed during a match situation The slightest error will be far more pronounced. I find this with the majority of hard sponge ESN rubbers and when combined with a fast blade it gets even worse. I tried R53 loved looping with it, counter hit top spins were amazing but the slightest error and bang point over!!! Margin for error is far less, the R53 was mounted on a defensive blade to try and tame it a little !!! To no avail!!!
 
says Spin and more spin.
says Spin and more spin.
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I do like the fact that IB66 did a very nice job of talking about how the blades play without ever having to mention anything about numbers.

IB66: the Primorac is an excellent blade. The ply construction:

Limba-Limba-Ayous-Limba-Limba

Gives it a very nice feeling and lets you hold the ball on the blade face for a long time enhancing the ability to spin and to learn to spin for a developing player. This is one of the reasons it is one of the best selling blades of all time. People who know, recommend this for developing players because it is a great blade for that.

The blade I use: OSP Virtuoso Plus, has a slightly different feel. But it has the same plies. And there are many classic blades with the same or similar ply construction. Petr Korbel, Stratus Power Wood and Appelgren Allplay all have that ply construction and all are excellent blades of different speeds. The Nittaku Acoustic has:

Limba-Limba-Tung Tree-Limba-Limba

So, the only ply that is different is the core.

Blade makers can use the same plies and still create blades that feel and play differently. But any blade that has 5 plies and Limba-Limba as the top two plies will have some similar playing qualities.

There are still top pros who use Korbel and Primorac blades for how much spin you can generate and how much you can feel the ball with them. Ma Long used an Acoustic till about 2009. Not sure what the ply construction of the Grubba is. But it may be similar to the ones mentioned above.
 
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says toooooo much choice!!
says toooooo much choice!!
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Read 11 reviews
I do like the fact that IB66 did a very nice job of talking about how the blades play without ever having to mention anything about numbers.

IB66: the Primorac is an excellent blade. The ply construction:

Limba-Limba-Ayous-Limba-Limba

Gives it a very nice feeling and lets you hold the ball on the blade face for a long time enhancing the ability to spin and to learn to spin for a developing player. This is one of the reasons it is one of the best selling blades of all time. People who know, recommend this for developing players because it is a great blade for that.

The blade I use: OSP Virtuoso Plus, has a slightly different feel. But it has the same plies. And there are many classic blades with the same or similar ply construction. Petr Korbel, Stratus Power Wood and Appelgren Allplay all have that ply construction and all are excellent blades of different speeds. The Nittaku Acoustic has:

Limba-Limba-Tung Tree-Limba-Limba

So, the only ply that is different is the core.

Blade makers can use the same plies and still create blades that feel and play differently. But any blade that has 5 plies and Limba-Limba as the top two plies will have some similar playing qualities.

There are still top pros who use Korbel and Primorac blades for how much spin you can generate and how much you can feel the ball with them. Ma Long used an Acoustic till about 2009. Not sure what the ply construction of the Grubba is. But it may be similar to the ones mentioned above.

I can put a lot of spin on my shots, it’s been commented on by people I’ve played against and trained with, my technique is generally better than average but still has along way to go. Timing is an issue for me!!!! And movement ......&....&...!!!!!!
when I decide to really try and utilise my technique full throttle, the speed created is really good, never underestimate the speed capability of an all wood all round blade, you just have to work harder!!!
I also have a Long 5 blade which is far better with the Chinese style rubbers but I still prefer the all wood blades, they just give better feel and control for me.
Chinese coaches will usually start all new players with a good all wood blade and upgrade rubbers rather than the blade Until the player reaches a high skill level, only then is the blade upgraded. That’s how important they value a blade, 2 or 3 for life, that sort of thing.
 
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says Spin and more spin.
says Spin and more spin.
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I can put a lot of spin on my shots, it’s been commented on by people I’ve played against and trained with, my technique is generally better than average but still has along way to go. Timing is an issue for me!!!! And movement ......&....&...!!!!!!
when I decide to really try and utilise my technique full throttle, the speed created is really good, never underestimate the speed capability of an all wood all round blade, you just have to work harder!!!
I also have a Long 5 blade which is far better with the Chinese style rubbers but I still prefer the all wood blades, they just give better feel and control for me.
Chinese coaches will usually start all new players with a good all wood blade and upgrade rubbers rather than the blade Until the player reaches a high skill level, only then is the blade upgraded. That’s how important they value a blade, 2 or 3 for life, that sort of thing.

Great post.

That is how I think it makes sense to upgrade as well. Controlled all wood blade with good feel and good dwell time to help you learn to control the depth of your impact and how to hold the ball on the rubber and the blade face. And you stay with that and upgrade rubbers till there are no more rubber upgrades. Then, you can upgrade your blade if you want.

I can use anything I want. But I like my Virtuoso + (all wood blade) so much that I see no reason to use anything else. I can hit very fast, powerful shots. I do not need an upgrade from that.

So, we are in agreement on many things. :)
 
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First: My OSP Virtuoso Plus is about 92 grams. The result is, it is not noticeably slower than the TB ZLF was. It might be a little slower. I no longer can really remember. But, man, nothing feels as good to me as this blade.

I do not need any more speed than this blade. But, truthfully, I don't need any more speed than a Stiga Allround Evolution either. I can make nasty shots with spin and pace with any blade. Because that is much more about technique than equipment. Which is also why, a younger player, who is developing, who could be using legs and hips but isn't because he is using a blade that is so fast that he has to cut down his stroke to get the ball on the table, is slowing the pace at which he will develop good technique. A slower blade will force you to learn how to use your legs, hips, core rotation, weight transfer TIMED WITH THE WHIP OF the forearm and wrist.

The key part is in capitals. You don't need a lot of force. You just have to pop the timing of legs, hips, weight transfer, core rotation with the whip of the arm and the contact of the ball. When you do this you can make powerful shots very efficiently. It is more about everything being timed and coordinated. Rather than it being brute force. And when you do that, the power comes right from the ground up.

Then the other thing, if you are really spinning the ball, you are not really using the blade so much for speed; you are not even letting the ball compress the sponge enough to touch the wood. Instead you are using the stretch and distortion of the topsheet and how it rebounds, so you are using the rubber; not the blade. And when you do that, a blade that seemed slow, will still produce shots that are quite fast.

That TB ZLF feels really good. I love that blade. I really like the feeling of Zylon without the carbon.

Zylon is a soft material almost like plastic. Really, closer to a polyester. Very similar to Kevlar. They used to make bullet proof vests from Zylon too but they found that after a certain number of years, the material changed and stopped being bullet proof. So, not as good for a bullet proof vest. And, that soft material that has some rebound to it, helps you hold the ball on the blade face and then rebounds to help propel the ball out. Which means you can generate a heck of a lot of spin if you know how to use it.

But on an inner layer, when the composite material is deeper, Zylon without the Carbon is actually a bit of a waste of time. Because when it is alone and deeper, it can't really do what I just described to anywhere near the same extent as it can when it is next to a thin top ply. That is why I said, not to get the IFL ZLF. But I didn't feel like explaining it. Too many words.

So the TB ZLF is amazing for spinning the ball. However, the Koto top ply is hard and I like the soft feel of Limba better. And Zylon, like most composite materials dampens the feeling of the best vibrations from the wood. So the feel of the wood and the ball contact feel muted compared to a good all wood blade. Which is why, that day, which I already described in a previous post, where I tried my friend's all wood blade, I realized how much I missed the feeling of an all wood blade. And how good LIMBA feels to my hand.

I have lots of blades. I have about 20-25 blades. More than enough. I have given a bunch of blades away too. Since I started using the V+ I have not really bothered trying anything else. Nothing is as good, at least not for me.

I name my blades. My Clipper that was 95 grams, (wow was that a beast), was "The Death Stick". The ZLF was "The Wand of Destiny"; I never thought I would switch from that one. (Those are both wands from Harry Potter). :) The black tag Viscaria that I had that I sold to Anno Van Doorn from MyTT (some people will kill me for the fact that I sold a black tag Viscaria for $70.00 but Anno liked the blade and I didn't need it, so I was happy for it to be in the hands of someone who liked it) that blade was really a beast and it was called "Mjolnir", that is the name of Thor's Hammer.

Now, in Harry Potter his wand is a regular old wand. But he likes it. And it works for him. And it has special powers, but only against Voldemort. His wand is made of Holly and Phoenix Feather. In the last book the Holly and Phoenix Feather wand is broken and he needs a new wand. In the end, he ends up with the Death Stick, also known as The Wand of Destiny and also known as The Elder Wand. That is the most powerful wand in history and the true owner of the wand cannot be beaten in a fair wizarding duel. So, Harry ends up with the Death Stick, and decides he doesn't like it. So he uses that most powerful wand to fix his broken Holly and Phoenix Feather wand. And then puts the Death Stick in Dumbledore's tomb. In other words, he chose a wand that was less powerful because he liked it more. :)

So, the Virtuoso Plus is named: "Holly and Phoenix Feather".

Maybe my story there makes why I use the blade make some sense. :) Either that, or I just like telling stories. :)

Nice to know the meaning of upside down.its really interesting. I am curious to know your idea regarding stiga rosewood VII and the best fitted rubber with it as you called stiga clipper as death stick..... What a metaphor. Now expecting your analysis regarding stiga rosewood vii and it's rubbers.
 
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Nice to know the meaning of upside down.its really interesting. I am curious to know your idea regarding stiga rosewood VII and the best fitted rubber with it as you called stiga clipper as death stick..... What a metaphor. Now expecting your analysis regarding stiga rosewood vii and it's rubbers.

I am of the opinion that any rubber can be used on any blade. That people tend to think certain rubbers go with certain blades because they felt one rubber on a blade and liked it and then felt another rubber on the blade and it felt different than they expected.

But the rubber still does what it does and the blade still does what it does. And if the person was used to the second rubber and then tried the first rubber, they might have the same kind of reaction in reverse.

By the way, the idea of you trying an unboosted Chinese tacky rubber on a blade after having used a Euro/Japanese rubber on the same blade, well that is just going to feel terrible no matter what you do. Being used to the catapult of a springy sponge and then using a rubber whose sponge seems to respond much more like cardboard if you DO NOT boost it, well, that just is not going to cause you to think, "oh boy, this feels nice." For people used to rubbers with springy sponge, Chinese, Hard, Tacky rubber is actually a hard change to make for almost anyone.

However, if you had never used anything but UnBoosted Skyline 3, and then you put unboosted skyline 3 on a Rosewood 7, you might go: "wow, this feels great." :)

I have never tried the Rosewood 7. I like the Rosewood 5. But isn't the 7 kind of heavy? If you like the blade, just put rubbers you like on it. What were you using before?

What made you think you wanted Chinese Tacky rubbers? What made you NOT BOOST rubbers that are designed TO BE BOOSTED?
 
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I am of the opinion that any rubber can be used on any blade. That people tend to think certain rubbers go with certain blades because they felt one rubber on a blade and liked it and then felt another rubber on the blade and it felt different than they expected.

But the rubber still does what it does and the blade still does what it does. And if the person was used to the second rubber and then tried the first rubber, they might have the same kind of reaction in reverse.

By the way, the idea of you trying an unboosted Chinese tacky rubber on a blade after having used a Euro/Japanese rubber on the same blade, well that is just going to feel terrible no matter what you do. Being used to the catapult of a springy sponge and then using a rubber whose sponge seems to respond much more like cardboard if you DO NOT boost it, well, that just is not going to cause you to think, "oh boy, this feels nice." For people used to rubbers with springy sponge, Chinese, Hard, Tacky rubber is actually a hard change to make for almost anyone.

However, if you had never used anything but UnBoosted Skyline 3, and then you put unboosted skyline 3 on a Rosewood 7, you might go: "wow, this feels great." :)

I have never tried the Rosewood 7. I like the Rosewood 5. But isn't the 7 kind of heavy? If you like the blade, just put rubbers you like on it. What were you using before?

What made you think you wanted Chinese Tacky rubbers? What made you NOT BOOST rubbers that are designed TO BE BOOSTED?

Agreed that it was a big mistake to switch from ESN to fake DHS ( May be as purchased from Malaysia).I used Mantra S both side and curious to use Skyline TG3 on forehand and didn't feel to boost it as it was a soft top sheet. I like rosewood 7 for it's great feel in backhand mantra S is okay however I need to set a good rubber on my forehand. Should I go for calibra LT ? Or Baracuda or any good alternative ? Please help.
 
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I had chance to play with Old
ZLF, ZLF layer, layer ZLC, layer ALC, layer ALC s, Liu shiwen ZLF, Ai fukuhara ZLF.
I dont know what yall want to know.
I really liked layer alc and layer zlf
If you like hard rubbers l alc is better and faster
Layer zlf is better for soft rubbers and its slower.
I always work on setup
Rubbers weight =/= sponge hardness
How is timo ball Zlc?
 
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