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    #1

    How does table tennis in non usa works?

    In US you play, you get rating you play events under a certain rating. If you are lucky and live in the bay there are some non sanction team tournaments but those are in a sub-par organized.

    From what I heard korean, japan, china, europe all have these leagues and divisions. Can anyone care to explain to me how does it work in each country and how one get assigned to a division and move up/down? Is there a rating or there's ranking each division? Is there a trial to go up a division etc.. etc...?

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    #2
    Over here, when we still played TT anyway, we have:


    • National levels; one top ("Eredivisie") plus three subordinate divisions:
      • Men (actually mixed; but the name stuck)
      • Women
      • Youth (mixed, no "Eredivisie")

    • Regional, my region has:
      • Seniors
        • Regular (teams of 3, 10 matches): 1 "hoofdklasse", 6 subordinate leagues ("klassen")
        • Duo (teams of 2, 5 matches): 1 "hoofdklasse", 6 subordinate leagues ("klassen")

      • Youth (teams of 2 or 3), 6 leagues
      • Starters (teams of 2 or 3)


    There's an adaptive ELO-like rating system. In competition and sanctioned tournaments, points are gained/lost upon wins/losses depending on the difference in rating. Points won by the one player are lost by the other, making it a zero sum system (new players excepted).

    New players receive a base rating depending on the competition class they're starting in.

    There are some differences between regions. Typically, a team winning the competition in Class N is promoted to Class N-1. Similarly, the last team degrades to Class N+1. Some regions have playoffs, for example between a runner up in a Class N+1 and a second-to-last finishing team in Class N. Some regions may also have playoffs between champions to determine promotion; there's some leeway there, and things can depend tightly on the "pyramid" structure of the competition.

    Teams getting added or falling away leads to some ad hoc decision by competition organising committees.
    Last edited by yoass; 05-11-2020 at 09:53 AM.

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    #3
    I play in a small local UK city league. There are 4 divisions in the league comprising of about 10 teams.

    Which division you play in depends on ability but also seems to depend on the club you join and how that club manages its teams. From what I've seen team captains and maybe sometimes other league players will informally assess your ability, if all is agreed you will be offered a spot in a team. If that club only has teams in division 3 and 4 then division 3 will be your best offer even if you are division 2 standard. So the size of club you join can be important. If you want to play division 1 then the choice of club becomes even more important.

    A team that finishes in the top 2 places in its division gets promoted or relegated if in the bottom 2 . Players win percentage is calculated and shown on the results website. Although again it's not a formal process I would say that in my club, which is relatively big, a player with a +80% win rate could request to play in a higher division and that probably be successful. I would imagine there's a good deal of variation on this in the UK but the above has been my experience.
    Last edited by KMTT; 05-11-2020 at 11:35 AM.

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    #4
    Dang, other country's system seems to be more fun and more structured compare to usa.

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    #5
    UK has a varied system for sure. Here's a basic breakdown. I'm sure I will have missed something but it's a start for you.

    There's

    (Small area) local leagues as explained by KMTT above pretty well. Great fun to play and good matches. Weekly matches.

    (Larger area) County matches where the better players in each area will play against other areas in a almost zone I guess. Held 2-3 times a year.

    National Leagues there's British League which goes from Premier, Championship, A league, B League etc. Thats a good standard normally where players tend to travel to a central venue for each division and play there matches over a weekend.

    Open events and Grand Prix events which also have banded events for your level as well as under 21 and ladies events.

    If you Win a Grand Prix Open you are a strong player.

    There's also Junior British league events and Over 40 veterans events as well.

    Fair bit to choose from.

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    #6
    1.Extraleague
    2.Nat 1st Div (divided to 2 region)
    3.Nat 2nd Div (4 region)
    4.Nat 3rd Div (8 region)
    5.Country A or I.
    6.Country B or II.
    7.Country C
    Many countries have only 1 division, a few have 2 and only the country around the capital (Budapest) have 3.
    Women have separate Extraleague and National 1st Division.
    Also, Budapest has it's own system:
    I/A
    I/B
    I/C
    II/A
    II/B
    II/C
    I am not familiar with it, but I think Bp I/A has to be around Nat 3rd Division.
    As far as I know there are no Local leagues.
    (for adults) tournaments are rare outside Budapest and we don't have a representative rating system. Also, the regular tournaments are for mostly amateur players.
    Overall, leagues are important and they last for a year. Usually the first or first two teams goes up and the last two team goes down. This might change according to the size of the divisions.
    Last edited by ajtatosmano2; 05-11-2020 at 05:35 PM.

  7. ttarc is offline
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    #7
    Quote Originally Posted by scrubplayer
    In US you play, you get rating you play events under a certain rating. If you are lucky and live in the bay there are some non sanction team tournaments but those are in a sub-par organized.

    From what I heard korean, japan, china, europe all have these leagues and divisions. Can anyone care to explain to me how does it work in each country and how one get assigned to a division and move up/down? Is there a rating or there's ranking each division? Is there a trial to go up a division etc.. etc...?
    Germany, women and men:
    National level:
    1. Bundesliga (national league), 2. Bundesliga, 2x 3. Bundesliga (north and south)
    Below that but still on the national level:
    Four regional leagues (Regionalligen, fourth division?)
    Eight Oberligen (don't know how to translate that, fifth division?)

    State level (although we have only 16 states we have 18 associations)
    Each association has:
    State/association level leagues, district/county leagues and administrative district leagues (the last two are usually divided into so called leagues and lower ranked classes)
    e.g. in North Rhine-Westphalia we have at the state level:
    Women: 2 NRW leagues, 4 Verbandsligen (something like association league)
    Men: 3 NRW leagues, 5 Verbandsligen and 11 state leagues
    Seniors women/men: NRW leagues 40+, 50+, 60+ and 70+
    Cadet women/men: NRW leagues <=13, <=15 and <=18

    How to move up and down: It depends... The first team of a league usually goes up and the last team goes down and depending on the league, the teams in second (and third) place play relegation matches.
    New teams: You can always start in the lowest league and, of course we're in Germany, there are regulations on how and if your team can start in a higher leagues.
    New players: We have something similar as the USATT ratings called TTR. Initial TTR: Depends (we have regulations...) either your club assigns you to a team and a position in that team then you will get the average TTR of all players in that league and at that position (roughly, it's a bit more complicated) or if you start at a tournament then it depends on how many matches you win (and of course which rating your opponents had and there is a lower limit depending on your age and...
    We have leagues with 6 players per team, leagues with 4 players per team, some have only 3 players per team and what not...
    Oh, we have some more regulations: Your position in a team depends on your TTR rating and the position in your team determines/can determine (it depends, we have some more regulations) which whom you have to play doubles in a league match...

    https://nrw-tischtennis.de/wp-conten...2020-01-01.pdf (only 84 pages for NRW)
    https://www.ttvb.de/wp-content/uploa...eibung-TTR.pdf (short description of TTR ranking, 8 pages)
    Last edited by ttarc; 05-11-2020 at 07:59 PM.

  8. scrubplayer is offline
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    #8
    Quote Originally Posted by ttarc
    Germany, women and men:
    National level:
    1. Bundesliga (national league), 2. Bundesliga, 2x 3. Bundesliga (north and south)
    Below that but still on the national level:
    Four regional leagues (Regionalligen, fourth division?)
    Eight Oberligen (don't know how to translate that, fifth division?)

    State level (although we have only 16 states we have 18 associations)
    Each association has:
    State/association level leagues, district/county leagues and administrative district leagues (the last two are usually divided into so called leagues and lower ranked classes)
    e.g. in North Rhine-Westphalia we have at the state level:
    Women: 2 NRW leagues, 4 Verbandsligen (something like association league)
    Men: 3 NRW leagues, 5 Verbandsligen and 11 state leagues
    Seniors women/men: NRW leagues 40+, 50+, 60+ and 70+
    Cadet women/men: NRW leagues <=13, <=15 and <=18

    How to move up and down: It depends... The first team of a league usually goes up and the last team goes down and depending on the league, the teams in second (and third) place play relegation matches.
    New teams: You can always start in the lowest league and, of course we're in Germany, there are regulations on how and if your team can start in a higher leagues.
    New players: We have something similar as the USATT ratings called TTR. Initial TTR: Depends (we have regulations...) either your club assigns you to a team and a position in that team then you will get the average TTR of all players in that league and at that position (roughly, it's a bit more complicated) or if you start at a tournament then it depends on how many matches you win (and of course which rating your opponents had and there is a lower limit depending on your age and...
    We have leagues with 6 players per team, leagues with 4 players per team, some have only 3 players per team and what not...
    Oh, we have some more regulations: Your position in a team depends on your TTR rating and the position in your team determines/can determine (it depends, we have some more regulations) which whom you have to play doubles in a league match...

    https://nrw-tischtennis.de/wp-conten...2020-01-01.pdf (only 84 pages for NRW)
    https://www.ttvb.de/wp-content/uploa...eibung-TTR.pdf (short description of TTR ranking, 8 pages)

    Wow... it's so much more advance and complicated compare to usa.

  9. Tinykin is offline
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    #9
    It's not complicated at all.
    Basically in USA, at a guess from posters' comments, almost 100% of a player's matches are in singles tournament. While in Europe, >90% of a player's matches are in team play.
    So ratings are much less important compared to their average in the particular season.

    Also there tends to be a separation between cadet/Junior, seniors and veterans in both teams and singles events.

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    #10
    The Swedish system:

    National leagues:
    -------------------
    Pingisligan
    Superettan
    Division 1 (4 "leagues" based on geography)
    Division 2 (8 "leagues")
    Division 3 (16 "leagues")

    Rational leagues:
    -------------------
    Division 4-7 (some regions only have up to div 4)

    The two best teams either get promoted or get to play play offs to get promoted. The same applies to the bottom two (or one in the highest leagues).

    All games in leagues as well as tournaments will give you ranking points. This also applies to veteran, youth and womens leagues and tournaments.

    Fun fact: TTD Tom plays for a team in division 1 "east". His win/loss ratio is 21-13 making him the 9th best player in the league. In this league you'll also find the 13 year old wiz kid David Björkryd (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INizzPn51tI) who has got a ratio of 13-7.

    Edit: Most clubs will have a lot of teams in different divisions. "My" club has got teams in 1,2,3,4,6 (2 teams) and 7 (2 teams). You can move players up and down but you usually have to skip one round to go down one division.
    Last edited by mart1nandersson; 05-11-2020 at 09:53 PM.

  11. ttarc is offline
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    #11
    Quote Originally Posted by scrubplayer
    Wow... it's so much more advance and complicated compare to usa.
    Complicated, yes, but advanced? I have to disagree

    Oh, I forgot something else: Up to the state level women can play in mens teams (which is quite common in my area) but not vice versa and these mixed teams cannot play in the highest state leagues because it's verboten (no mixed teams allowed at the national level).

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    #12
    Quote Originally Posted by ttarc
    Complicated, yes, but advanced? I have to disagree

    Oh, I forgot something else: Up to the state level women can play in mens teams (which is quite common in my area) but not vice versa and these mixed teams cannot play in the highest state leagues because it's verboten (no mixed teams allowed at the national level).

    Advance is not the correct word. I would say superior.

  13. SkySowers is offline
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    #13
    I grew up playing Table Tennis in the Philippines and even made money while playing it. It's a team sport over there and you represent your school. Basically, if you keep winning, you'll end up representing your region in the national tournament. That's probably about 5-6 tournaments in a year if you kept winning. And every time you win, you get money. Every win has a prize money, so are the medals you get. If you were representing a different city, the Mayor will give you money, then the Governor will do the same.

    I don't know how it is over there now, but that's how I remember it. If you join a national tournament, you are separated by gender and age bracket. It was pretty fun. I kept winning, so I was always away for training camp. We train for a month or so, then we win. Then we do it again.

    Completely different compared to over here in US.

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    #14
    Quote Originally Posted by SkySowers
    I grew up playing Table Tennis in the Philippines and even made money while playing it. It's a team sport over there and you represent your school. Basically, if you keep winning, you'll end up representing your region in the national tournament. That's probably about 5-6 tournaments in a year if you kept winning. And every time you win, you get money. Every win has a prize money, so are the medals you get. If you were representing a different city, the Mayor will give you money, then the Governor will do the same.

    I don't know how it is over there now, but that's how I remember it. If you join a national tournament, you are separated by gender and age bracket. It was pretty fun. I kept winning, so I was always away for training camp. We train for a month or so, then we win. Then we do it again.

    Completely different compared to over here in US.
    Skysowers, what the highest level playing field have you been in those playing years in philippines?

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    #15
    Quote Originally Posted by mart1nandersson
    The Swedish system:

    National leagues:
    -------------------
    Pingisligan
    Superettan
    Division 1 (4 "leagues" based on geography)
    Division 2 (8 "leagues")
    Division 3 (16 "leagues")

    Rational leagues:
    -------------------
    Division 4-7 (some regions only have up to div 4)

    The two best teams either get promoted or get to play play offs to get promoted. The same applies to the bottom two (or one in the highest leagues).

    All games in leagues as well as tournaments will give you ranking points. This also applies to veteran, youth and womens leagues and tournaments.

    Fun fact: TTD Tom plays for a team in division 1 "east". His win/loss ratio is 21-13 making him the 9th best player in the league. In this league you'll also find the 13 year old wiz kid David Björkryd (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INizzPn51tI) who has got a ratio of 13-7.

    Edit: Most clubs will have a lot of teams in different divisions. "My" club has got teams in 1,2,3,4,6 (2 teams) and 7 (2 teams). You can move players up and down but you usually have to skip one round to go down one division.
    To this can be added local series trough "Korpen" (a Swedish association for less serious form of practicing/competing in sports). In Stockholm that adds 11 divisions for teams of two and 2 divisions for teams of three.

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  16. SkySowers is offline
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    #16
    Quote Originally Posted by wappak
    Skysowers, what the highest level playing field have you been in those playing years in philippines?

    Sent from my Redmi 6A using Tapatalk

    My highest playing field would be the Nationals that I attended a couple of times. I could've went for 2-3 more but due to lack of money, they cancelled some of them. But the most exciting part was the Regionals. Our province was undefeated for years, and we would always be the overall champions (going against 6 other provinces). It was awesome for me since our sport was a team competition. Nobody gets left behind.

    Aside from that, I played the National Open during my 1st year in high school and won 1st runner up. I also participated in the NCAA during college.

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    Last edited by SkySowers; 05-13-2020 at 04:27 AM.

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    #17
    SkySowers with playing nationally at a pretty high level your rating must be pretty high in the US. Where abouts are you training and how does the level compare?. Hopefully you manage to train and keep a good level. Cheers
    Last edited by Ghostzen; 05-13-2020 at 09:29 AM.

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    #18
    Norwegian system:

    The league is more or less similar to the swedish system, but not quite at the same level.
    Stigaligaen
    1.div
    2.div x 2
    3.div x 7
    4.div (regional) x 10
    5.div (regional) x ?? depending on teams
    There is a system of relegation/going up.

    We also have tournaments divided in age groups and/or level.
    Normally you can play at your level or better, but not go downwards in level.

    You gain/lose points in the online ranking in all matches, league and tournaments. If you get an "expected" result (the highest ranked player wins), you win/lose few points. If the lowest ranked player wins, you win/lose lots of points. In some tournaments you win/lose 1,5 or 2x the points of a normal tournament. The system and the ranking is the same if you are 9 or 90 years old, boy or girl, elite or beginner.

    The points/ranking are to some extent used to put you in the right position in the team in the league.

    For the most part it is used for seeding in tournaments. Most tournaments are open for all. A few tournaments (national championship) are closed/invitational only for the best ranked players.

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    #19
    Table tennis, also known as ping-pong and whiff-whaff, is a sport in which two or four players ... In 1933, the United States Table Tennis Association, now called USA Table Tennis, was formed. ... (A common but non-sanctioned method is for the players to play the ball back and forth three times and then play out the point.

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    #20
    Quote Originally Posted by SkySowers
    My highest playing field would be the Nationals that I attended a couple of times. I could've went for 2-3 more but due to lack of money, they cancelled some of them. But the most exciting part was the Regionals. Our province was undefeated for years, and we would always be the overall champions (going against 6 other provinces). It was awesome for me since our sport was a team competition. Nobody gets left behind.

    Aside from that, I played the National Open during my 1st year in high school and won 1st runner up. I also participated in the NCAA during college.
    Skysowers, you have.been many.battles back in.phils. tibay mo brad hehe, im also from phils right now, so how did.you fair playing there in US? my only achivement was i won the singles in college department meet but with no varsity player played, i went back to playing basketball since that, after almosr.20 years last year march went back playing tt again just to teach my 10 year old in coming grade 6 daughter preparing.her for their school elimination and hopefully she can join the area meet, but because of this covid it might be cancelled all sporting events.now this year good thing we have table at home still practicing at quarantine here

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    Last edited by wappak; 05-15-2020 at 01:32 AM.

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