Glues

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I am a returner to TT and so far have used custom made bats put together by suppliers using commercially available blades.

I have recently branched out by having a custom made blade to suit my requirements from the brilliant Hipnotic.This faces me with the dilemma of purchasing the rubbers separately and gluing them on myself. To a lot of you this is no big deal but I am in need of guidance please on various points.

I will be using T05 and T05FX rubbers and the Butterfly's stance is that you should use Butterfly Free Chack (or Pro) only and that the blade should not be sealed because that would impair adhesion and the rubber could detach. But I want to seal my blade to protect it as it has a relatively fragile top ply layer which could easily splinter on rubber removal. I have also read that Chack is not the easiest glue to use to achieve good results. This does not sound ideal for me gluing together expensive parts for the first time.

So I am looking for advice please regarding which would be the recommended glue to use to achieve the best result 'right first time' and one that will give good long term adherence while allowing separation of the rubber from the blade without damage, and one that can be easily cleaned from both components. Any advice on method and instruction videos would also be appreciated.

Thank you.
 
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Hi Basmundo,

If you want to seal your blade, go ahead and do it. Better yet, let Hipnotic do it for you. As long as you don't go overboard with the varnish, gluing should be fine.

However, long term adherence and easy separation are mutually exclusive. Personally, I change rubbers pretty often so I used Nittaku Finezip on the sponge and speed glue (Haifu Dolphin) on the blade which results in very easy separation and no splintering. If you want maximum hold even with heavily boosted rubbers, use DHS 15 glue (on both sides).
 
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Hi Basmundo,

If you want to seal your blade, go ahead and do it. Better yet, let Hipnotic do it for you. As long as you don't go overboard with the varnish, gluing should be fine.

However, long term adherence and easy separation are mutually exclusive. Personally, I change rubbers pretty often so I used Nittaku Finezip on the sponge and speed glue (Haifu Dolphin) on the blade which results in very easy separation and no splintering. If you want maximum hold even with heavily boosted rubbers, use DHS 15 glue (on both sides).

Thank you Lasta. Hipnotic is going to seal the blade for me.
I am interested to know the reason why you use two different glues. Is it for adherence and separation purposes or because of the effect of using Haifu Dolphin. Presumably you only put this on the blade so that it doesn't distort the sponge before fitting to the blade?
I am not sure if I can get DH 15 in the UK but if I can, does this separate easily after say 3 to 6 months of use?

Regards
Basmundo
 
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Unfortunately this is just one of those things you need to get used to doing. Don't be afraid, if your get an accidental rip, it shouldn't take more than 5 mins to re-attach.

I don't think water based glues are that much different. If too thick, add a few drops of water.

I use 2 glues because speed glue has very little adhesion, so I can remove it from the blade easily and cleanly. Meanwhile, WBG is easier to remove from the sponge. Pretty much the opposite of what you want haha.
 
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Short version: Any water based glue will work with Tenergy, Rozena or Dignics. Buy whatever is cheapest. I usually end up with Andro, Donic or Xiom.

Doing this is not rocket science. Anyone can do it. It's a factor 1000 easier than putting up wall paper and even easier if the blade is already sealed.

Howto:
1) Spread glue on blade and rubber. I usually use a (clean) piece of kitchen sponge to spread the glue.
2a) Open up a can of lager if you're not in a rush. Wait until the glue becomes transparent.
2b) Dry the glue with a hair dryer.
3) Roll the rubber on to the blade starting from the handle and up
4) Gently roll it with a baking pin, wine bottle or anything that's round (like another can of lager).
5) Cut the rubber using your weapon of choice. Anything goes. Stanley knife, scalpel, a (fairly) sharp pair of scissors etc. I normally steal my teenage daughter's nail scissors which causes huge upset in the household.
6) Apply edge tape if you care about looks
7) Top spin everything
 
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Short version: Any water based glue will work with Tenergy, Rozena or Dignics. Buy whatever is cheapest. I usually end up with Andro, Donic or Xiom.

Doing this is not rocket science. Anyone can do it. It's a factor 1000 easier than putting up wall paper and even easier if the blade is already sealed.

Howto:
1) Spread glue on blade and rubber. I usually use a (clean) piece of kitchen sponge to spread the glue.
2a) Open up a can of lager if you're not in a rush. Wait until the glue becomes transparent.
2b) Dry the glue with a hair dryer.
3) Roll the rubber on to the blade starting from the handle and up
4) Gently roll it with a baking pin, wine bottle or anything that's round (like another can of lager).
5) Cut the rubber using your weapon of choice. Anything goes. Stanley knife, scalpel, a (fairly) sharp pair of scissors etc. I normally steal my teenage daughter's nail scissors which causes huge upset in the household.
6) Apply edge tape if you care about looks
7) Top spin everything

Thanks Mart1n. Good advice, especially 2a but will a can of Morland's "Old Speckled Hen" craft beer achieve the same result?
 
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In China we often use DHS 15 or LIDU water based glue, they are quite easy to apply. One layer on the wood and 2 on the rubber. Why 2 on the rubber ? It's because it makes the glue layer thicker and then easier to remove when you need to :)
 
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Here is a guide to gluing and cutting:


I cut with a scissor. But it takes a little skill to get past the handle. Once you learn how to do that, it is easy with a scissor. But the way shown for cutting the rubbers in the video works well also. Yogi has a video that gives a good tip about the angle of the blade when you cut with a blade like in this video:

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/showthread.php?23415-My-way-of-cutting-a-rubber

Traditional way of cutting a rubber. No chickens this time.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aPYHodosJaY

But if Tees Sports will glue the rubbers on for you, why not. That is a good tip from TinyKin.
 
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I would shy away from hipster brew as those type of bottles may not be round.

Old Speckled Hen is far from hipster and as straight as they come.

I recommend anything but Weltenberger bottles. German output is pretty tight..except those from drunk Bavarians.
 
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Hello David
Isn't this forum great enabling us to receive advice from all over the world!
Thank you for your input regarding the glues used. It appears that DHS 15 is not readily available in the UK and is best suited to Chinese rubbers. I will be glueing Japanese Tenergy rubbers and I understand that Donic Vario Clean is very good for that.

In China we often use DHS 15 or LIDU water based glue, they are quite easy to apply. One layer on the wood and 2 on the rubber. Why 2 on the rubber ? It's because it makes the glue layer thicker and then easier to remove when you need to :)
 
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Here is a guide to gluing and cutting:


I cut with a scissor. But it takes a little skill to get past the handle. Once you learn how to do that, it is easy with a scissor. But the way shown for cutting the rubbers in the video works well also. Yogi has a video that gives a good tip about the angle of the blade when you cut with a blade like in this video:

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/showthread.php?23415-My-way-of-cutting-a-rubber



But if Tees Sports will glue the rubbers on for you, why not. That is a good tip from TinyKin.

Thank you Carl
The videos were very informative. The only issue with sending the blade to Tees Sport is that they use Chack for gluing and they have already said that the rubber could separate if the blade is sealed.

My fear is having two very expensive Tenergy rubbers and messing them up somehow plus splintering my lovely new blade from Hipnotic! of my concerns is not getting a smooth layer of glue. I had my last blade made up professionally but wasn't happy how the Rhyzer 43 was applied. It seemed not to be smooth as it had a rippled appearance. I was concerned that this was because the glue had balled up in some way during application but was told that it was a characteristic of the rubber which had wider spaced pimples than usual. I think this is a relatively simple skill that I am probably becoming over anxious about.

I am tending to think that I will use the Donic Vario Clean glue as it does get good reports from EmRatThich among others. What I don't know is whether it is any different to Chack in adhesion and separation properties.

Another question is regarding the number of layers to use on both the rubber and blade to aid adhesion and also separation. Some seem to put one layer on the blade and two on the rubber?
 
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I am tending to think that I will use the Donic Vario Clean glue as it does get good reports from EmRatThich among others. What I don't know is whether it is any different to Chack in adhesion and separation properties.

Another question is regarding the number of layers to use on both the rubber and blade to aid adhesion and also separation. Some seem to put one layer on the blade and two on the rubber?

Just find someone who knows how to glue and cut and have them help you with it.

The truth is, most glues are fine. I told you I like Vario Clean but I agree with what Martin says below:


Short version: Any water based glue will work with Tenergy, Rozena or Dignics. Buy whatever is cheapest. I usually end up with Andro, Donic or Xiom.

Doing this is not rocket science. Anyone can do it.

And it doesn't have to look perfect. It just has to play well. You don't want lumps. But an imperfect cut is really not a big deal. After you get a few dings in the new blade, the edges will look like they have been a bit banged up anyway. :) And, to me, that looks better. That looks like the racket has done battle with you and for you.

f075d2d32263772fe706f837f82c8cdd.jpg
 
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Applying the rubber and glue is easy. Just apply as many layers as you want. I know that a lot of people religiously believe that multiple layers are needed and that it makes a big difference when it comes to how the rubber feels in actual game play. I guess I’m to crappy of a player to notice this so I just use 1+1 layer.

The warning notice on the Butterfly packaging is nonsense.

Removing the rubber is another story. I usually go clockwise starting at the bottom left. The key is to go very slowly so you don’t damage the blade or rubber.
 
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Basmundo, don't overthink this :)

Like I told you before, I use copydex which is the cheapest stuff around and I get great results. Just go for it, the Donic glue will work just fine. If you are afraid of messing up just remove the rubbers from an old racket and try on them first.

About the the amount of glue, if I'm gluing a new rubber I use 2 thin layers on the rubber and one layer on the blade. Why 2 layers? Because most modern rubbers have pores, the first layers serves as an wash coat and the second layer will be more uniform. It also makes it easier to remove from the sponge, like what was said before. If I'm re-gluing a rubber I just use one thin layer on the sponge and on the blade.

By the way, I sealed the blade face but left it a little rougher than usual so you don't have problems with adhesion.
 
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Basmundo, don't overthink this :)

Like I told you before, I use copydex which is the cheapest stuff around and I get great results. Just go for it, the Donic glue will work just fine. If you are afraid of messing up just remove the rubbers from an old racket and try on them first.

About the the amount of glue, if I'm gluing a new rubber I use 2 thin layers on the rubber and one layer on the blade. Why 2 layers? Because most modern rubbers have pores, the first layers serves as an wash coat and the second layer will be more uniform. It also makes it easier to remove from the sponge, like what was said before. If I'm re-gluing a rubber I just use one thin layer on the sponge and on the blade.

By the way, I sealed the blade face but left it a little rougher than usual so you don't have problems with adhesion.

Thanks Hipnotic
It is just that you have made me such a wonderful blade that I don't want to jeopardise it in any way. I am sure it will be fine.

By the way you should publish photos of the blade.
 
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Hello David
Isn't this forum great enabling us to receive advice from all over the world!
Thank you for your input regarding the glues used. It appears that DHS 15 is not readily available in the UK and is best suited to Chinese rubbers. I will be glueing Japanese Tenergy rubbers and I understand that Donic Vario Clean is very good for that.

I'm in France now because of the current situation :)
We also use DHS15 on Tenergy, nothing wrong with that !
Don't believe people saying that one glue is better than the other for Tenergy, just avoid speed/VOC glue on Tenergy.
I use DHS 15 because it's cheap in China and easy to apply but in Europe you can buy it on some online shops.
You can also use any top brand water based glue, they are all almost the same (Butterfly Free Chack/Donic Vario Clean/Nittaku Finezip...).
Try to apply the right amount of glue to have thin and homogeneous layers, if you want to glue boosted rubbers, don't use more glue, just apply more layers.
 
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