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    1. Top | #1
      guni4you is offline
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      Dignics 09c vs dignics 05

      Hi,

      Can someone please give detailed comparisons between d05 and d09c please. Moreover, does d09c have more dwell and does it hold the ball even longer than d05?

      Thanks

    2. Top | #2
      7sagittarius7 is offline
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      yes, d09c have more dwell then d05.

      here is my detailed comparison https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6OPjq29skM

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    4. Top | #3
      guni4you is offline
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      Thanks

    5. Top | #4
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      09c plays like h3 in short game, but its not as fast and people can't top out the sponge, and it's heavy as hell. To me it could be playable if we have 5~6 of falco temp long with glue layer (or 4~5 directly to sponge). But that would be just too heavy. 09c would be perfect at 40 degree (same weight as t05 or d05), don't know why they release at 44 for the public when almost 99% can't top it out. (I am close to 2200 btw.)

      05c is horrid at short game. It's a good bh rubber, it's also pretty unplayable without boosting. For BH i do 4 layers of falco tempo long with glue layers.
      Last edited by scrubplayer; 06-26-2020 at 06:49 PM.

    6. Top | #5
      guni4you is offline
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      4 layers of falco on d05.Thats crazy man. I used to put 3 layers of falco on my hurricane 3 neo.

    7. Top | #6
      guni4you is offline
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      New rubber aibiss has 50 hardness sponge.That would be so hard then and would need 6 layers of booster then.

    8. Top | #7
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      Quote Originally Posted by guni4you View Post
      New rubber aibiss has 50 hardness sponge.That would be so hard then and would need 6 layers of booster then.

      One thing people don't know is how hard processional actually hit(I'm extremely fit lower than 10% body fat https://youtu.be/6WJD1Y0GorQ?t=48). I once head to a tournament and see eugene wang in person. On TV he look like a chubby guy with no muscle;but in real person his legs muscles is as thick as my waist; power comes from legs, usually i can instantly tell whether a player have power or not by looking at their legs. As I said I am close to 2200 and here's me https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHF..._as=subscriber playing. You can look at my FH strokes https://youtu.be/zw-sPADCZ80?t=78 . I have never met anyone lower rated than me top out a rubber that i can't top out before. For players rated similar to me or lower, d05 is too hard. Need 3~4 layer of boost and of course any 50 degree sponge is similar too hard as well.

      I'm not saying people should boost it. There are 3 aspect of a shot. Speed, placement, and spin. In order for me to achieve a speed that can even threaten a 2400. I need d05 to soften up by 4 layers, t05 soften up by 1~2 layers. In practice i can easily bring out t05 full potential but in a match where i am most likely out of position, it needs to be softer. And who knows how many layers for t05h or d09c.
      Last edited by scrubplayer; 06-27-2020 at 05:28 AM.

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    10. Top | #8
      Magic_M is offline
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      What do you mean with "top out a rubber"? And why is this so important for you to "top it out"? I have watched some of your videos and I verify that you are 1) a much better player than I, 2) that you are much fitter than I and 3) that you practice table tennis maybe 10x more than I, but I am not sure, if soft (or heavily boosted) rubbers are the best option for you.

      Personally I am a bad player, but some of my problems are caused to the fact that I was not able to play short enough. Most of the ESN rubbers are simply too bouncy for me in the short game. I tried to go back to classic rubbers, but there is a lack of spin and power in my eyes. I tried chinese rubbers, but without boosting they are not playable for me and boosting is a real annoying process in my eyes.

      I tried some of the new and harder ESN rubbers like R53 and Nexus EL Pro 50, which helped me a lot, because they are easier to play for me than the softer versions, at least in the short game and this is important for me. I have to add, that I am mostly playing from short distance, directly at the table, sometimes 1-2 m away from the table but nearly never from a longer distance.

      Actually I am testing the Dignics 09C on both sides (fh = 2,1 mm / bh = 1,9 mm) on a 89g Innerforce blade. Together with 2x D09C the total wight is 189-190g, which is not too much for me. And from the first impressions this rubber is fantastic in the short game, extremely grippy, fast enough for spin attack and hard shots and very easy to control, especially in the passive game. You only need a short active movement of your hand to set the right direction of the ball. IF you do this (and you really must do this), the control of this rubber is amazing. Therefore I think, Dignics 09C (in opposite to Dignics 05) is not only an option for higher rated players. In my eyes the D09C is much easier to play with compared with D05, with H3 and also H3 Neo.

      I don't want to attack you, but actually I have less mistakes in my strokes than I can see in your videos, although my playing-skills are MUCH lower than yours. So my advice for you is, to try D09C without boosting, but not only 5-10 minutes. Try it for some training-sessions and maybe the result will be astonishing for you. Your arm and your movements are fast enough for this rubber.

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    12. Top | #9
      longrange is online now
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      I guess, the question is whether you engage the sponge of d05/d09c during your topspin stroke. Do you hear it clicking? More importantly, do you hear it clicking during the match play? But maybe it's not necessary, see below.
      Personally, I kinda liked an old sheet of d05 that I tried for 10 mins, it felt soft and spinny on slowly paced topspins. Not so with the new one — it was too hard. So I guess it needs some time.
      To me here was the main difference to t05 where it's way more difficult to control low gear topspin: until some power the sponge doesn't click and the ball "doesn't fly" so to say.

    13. Top | #10
      guni4you is offline
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      I am about to try d09c today

    14. Top | #11
      Der_Echte is online now
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      I am going out to find some Kibble n Bits if Costco isn't sold out of them.
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    15. Top | #12
      scrubplayer is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Magic_M View Post
      What do you mean with "top out a rubber"? And why is this so important for you to "top it out"? I have watched some of your videos and I verify that you are 1) a much better player than I, 2) that you are much fitter than I and 3) that you practice table tennis maybe 10x more than I, but I am not sure, if soft (or heavily boosted) rubbers are the best option for you.

      Personally I am a bad player, but some of my problems are caused to the fact that I was not able to play short enough. Most of the ESN rubbers are simply too bouncy for me in the short game. I tried to go back to classic rubbers, but there is a lack of spin and power in my eyes. I tried chinese rubbers, but without boosting they are not playable for me and boosting is a real annoying process in my eyes.

      I tried some of the new and harder ESN rubbers like R53 and Nexus EL Pro 50, which helped me a lot, because they are easier to play for me than the softer versions, at least in the short game and this is important for me. I have to add, that I am mostly playing from short distance, directly at the table, sometimes 1-2 m away from the table but nearly never from a longer distance.

      Actually I am testing the Dignics 09C on both sides (fh = 2,1 mm / bh = 1,9 mm) on a 89g Innerforce blade. Together with 2x D09C the total wight is 189-190g, which is not too much for me. And from the first impressions this rubber is fantastic in the short game, extremely grippy, fast enough for spin attack and hard shots and very easy to control, especially in the passive game. You only need a short active movement of your hand to set the right direction of the ball. IF you do this (and you really must do this), the control of this rubber is amazing. Therefore I think, Dignics 09C (in opposite to Dignics 05) is not only an option for higher rated players. In my eyes the D09C is much easier to play with compared with D05, with H3 and also H3 Neo.

      I don't want to attack you, but actually I have less mistakes in my strokes than I can see in your videos, although my playing-skills are MUCH lower than yours. So my advice for you is, to try D09C without boosting, but not only 5-10 minutes. Try it for some training-sessions and maybe the result will be astonishing for you. Your arm and your movements are fast enough for this rubber.
      Topping out a rubber means when you hit the ball hard enough that the ball engage through the sponge and to the wood. When you successfully do that it means u bring out 100% of the rubber. The harder the rubber the harder for it to top out. Also reaching 100% is not linear. When you successfully engage the wood there's a huge speed boost. So a 100% 43 degree > 90% 50 degree rubber . I play t05 FH now, back then i play d05 my short game was horrid. I also played h3, and i find t05 short game is better for me. t05 is easier to generate spin and flicks compare to h3 to me for some reason. For h3 you can't give half ass shots or else it will go down the net or no flick quality.


      Also d09c is simply too heavy. It decrease racket speed and decrease the shot quality. The pros want heavier racket because they need the force to top out their harder rubber. They can handle heavy rackets momentum(to top out rubber) = mass (racket) * speed (racket speed). Again, pros really hit hard. You look at my vid you think im' fit. On tv bob chen looks like an skinny asian but if i were to stand side by side wit him, he actually dwarfs me and we are the same height. They are good enough that the increase weight won't decrease their speed so they increase mass. For general public anything heavier than 185g is a little too much.
      Last edited by scrubplayer; 06-27-2020 at 07:40 PM.

    16. Top | #13
      Bilge Dogan is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Magic_M View Post
      What do you mean with "top out a rubber"? And why is this so important for you to "top it out"? I have watched some of your videos and I verify that you are 1) a much better player than I, 2) that you are much fitter than I and 3) that you practice table tennis maybe 10x more than I, but I am not sure, if soft (or heavily boosted) rubbers are the best option for you.

      Personally I am a bad player, but some of my problems are caused to the fact that I was not able to play short enough. Most of the ESN rubbers are simply too bouncy for me in the short game. I tried to go back to classic rubbers, but there is a lack of spin and power in my eyes. I tried chinese rubbers, but without boosting they are not playable for me and boosting is a real annoying process in my eyes.

      I tried some of the new and harder ESN rubbers like R53 and Nexus EL Pro 50, which helped me a lot, because they are easier to play for me than the softer versions, at least in the short game and this is important for me. I have to add, that I am mostly playing from short distance, directly at the table, sometimes 1-2 m away from the table but nearly never from a longer distance.

      Actually I am testing the Dignics 09C on both sides (fh = 2,1 mm / bh = 1,9 mm) on a 89g Innerforce blade. Together with 2x D09C the total wight is 189-190g, which is not too much for me. And from the first impressions this rubber is fantastic in the short game, extremely grippy, fast enough for spin attack and hard shots and very easy to control, especially in the passive game. You only need a short active movement of your hand to set the right direction of the ball. IF you do this (and you really must do this), the control of this rubber is amazing. Therefore I think, Dignics 09C (in opposite to Dignics 05) is not only an option for higher rated players. In my eyes the D09C is much easier to play with compared with D05, with H3 and also H3 Neo.

      I don't want to attack you, but actually I have less mistakes in my strokes than I can see in your videos, although my playing-skills are MUCH lower than yours. So my advice for you is, to try D09C without boosting, but not only 5-10 minutes. Try it for some training-sessions and maybe the result will be astonishing for you. Your arm and your movements are fast enough for this rubber.
      Can you please compare D09C and R53 if possible ?

    17. Top | #14
      guni4you is offline
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      R53 is way faster but less spinny. D09c is the best close to the table countering rubber that I have played with.On par with very well boosted hurricane 3 national. But you need power for D09c.

      R53 is a dream to use away from the table. But d09c arc is very high so looping underspin sometimes the ball goes out.But I have just played with D09c for 3 hours today.
      Quote Originally Posted by Bilge Dogan View Post
      Can you please compare D09C and R53 if possible ?

    18. Top | #15
      Magic_M is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by guni4you View Post
      R53 is way faster but less spinny. D09c is the best close to the table countering rubber that I have played with.On par with very well boosted hurricane 3 national. But you need power for D09c.

      R53 is a dream to use away from the table. But d09c arc is very high so looping underspin sometimes the ball goes out. But I have just played with D09c for 3 hours today.
      I agree to most of these impressions. D09C definitely has more spin because of the top sheet, which is a bit sticky at the beginning, but still extremely grippy after some time of use. And it is also clear that R53 is faster and easier to play from mid distance. It is not as spinny as D09C, but nevertheless it is also very spinny and it is easier to play with, if you are used to ESN rubbers. For me R53 is somewhere between D09C and T05 Hard from the feeling.

      In one point I disagree. As "guni4you" wrote, D09C is not very fast ("you need power for D09c") and therefore I have no problems with balls going over the table. For me it is the opposite: if your arm-movement is a bit too fast or long, the ball goes too long with faster rubbers while with D09C the ball still lands on the table because of the missing bounciness.

      This may sound too good to be right, but I am really impressed of the D09C (although the price is a NO-GO normally). Nevertheless it is not generally "better" than R53, which is another VERY good rubber, because it is easier to generate a good topspin with R53. If your stroke is perfect, you will get much more spin with D09C, but if it is not perfect, you get more spin with R53. On the other side this is not soo bad for me, because the opponent can not see exactly how good my stroke was and how much spin is in the ball when I play with D09C ;-)

      Because of the crazy price I plan to test another alternative, the new Rakza Z, but on the other side I have to concider, that the durability of the D09C seems to be VERY good (much better than T05 in this point). Therefore the price-difference (complete costs of rubbers within a year) may be not as high as it seems to be from the pure price.

    19. Top | #16
      shinshiro is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Magic_M View Post
      Because of the crazy price I plan to test another alternative, the new Rakza Z, but on the other side I have to concider, that the durability of the D09C seems to be VERY good (much better than T05 in this point). Therefore the price-difference (complete costs of rubbers within a year) may be not as high as it seems to be from the pure price.
      I'm eager to read your impressions about Rakza Z when once you test it, your are very knowledgeable about TT equipments!
      Price is the main reason I don't use Butterfly rubbers, even tought they seems to be very high quality. A cheaper alternative is always very welcome, even if it is not 100% as good.

    20. Top | #17
      Magic_M is offline
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      By the way:
      Quote Originally Posted by scrubplayer View Post
      d09c is simply too heavy.
      My R53 rubbers (Ultramax on forehand and 1,7 mm on backhand) are 4g heavier than my Dignics 09C rubbers (2,1 mm on forehand + 1,9 mm on backhand). Maybe my D09C rubbers are lighter than "normal" or/and my R53 rubbers are heavier than "normal", but I think, D09C is not unusual heavy, compared with other non-chinese rubbers with this hardness.
      Last edited by Magic_M; 06-28-2020 at 05:35 PM.

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    22. Top | #18
      Takkyu_wa_inochi is offline
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      Here is another video review,
      by my friend Emiri

    23. Top | #19
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      "Topping out" is usually a bad thing, resulting in less spin. With proper contact you shouldn't engage the wood and I believe the feeling when you make a good contact and it clicks isn't the wood. Aim for THIN contact.

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