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  1. latej is offline
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    #41
    Quote Originally Posted by 7sagittarius7
    No, it's not caused by a ball touching them. The wheels is rotating before the ball is thrown.
    OK, thanks. On Amicus Expert if I set maximum backspin, only the bottom wheel rotates, and if I set maximum topspin, only the two top-side wheels rotate. Always out. And regardless the speed setting. Maybe Amicus Prime is different. Can you please once more describe what happens if you set maximum backspin (I don't care about topspin)? Do the two top-side wheels counter-rotate (rotate as if trying to throw the ball back into robot)?

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    #42
    Quote Originally Posted by zbys
    l used to have a 2050 robot and all the springs right angle and long and short one broke .. l got spares but months later they broke again... the flaw is at the attachment point ... l made all the springs stronger by using a vice and two pliers stretch the springs to give you room to make a circle so the screw can fit thro the hoop and give you space to get the screw thro ,the most difficult bit ... ,they never broke again
    Thank you for the reply !! I’ll give it a try when the new spring arrives!!! Cheers

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    #43
    Quote Originally Posted by brokenball
    No one has said whether or not the throw wheels can spin backwards. Doesn't anybody understand why this is important?
    The recent review from megaspin, Reversing the opposing wheel(s) is one key feature

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    #44
    Quote Originally Posted by latej
    @palguay Thank you very much for posting. Can you please state the range of "balls per minute" frequencies? I'm using anywhere between 40 to 90. Can the head rotate clock-wise - to produce side-spin?

    I am impressed about your timeline, pretty quick.

    I think top-spin/back-spin on non-serve balls on Amicus is good. Not so on serve (or slow) balls. Hiliting/comparing this feature of your robot could also help in positioning it, I think.
    The robot has three wheels same as amicus so the head does not rotate but we can control the motor speed to get sidespin. Right now the frequency is (0.8,1 and 1.5) seconds per ball so around 40-75

    Do you plan some future extensions, like mounting on the edge, and auto-feeding the collected balls?
    Our immediate plan is to add more software features that helps a player improve, We already have a record feature in the app and we have developed Stroke analysis for table tennis , the plan is to connect the app to Motionanalysis to help players connect to coaches or they can analyse their game and improve.
    I hope my Amicus doesn't break, but when it stops its service, I'll definitely look into your robot. Very impressive.
    Thanks :-)

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    #45
    Quote Originally Posted by latej
    OK, thanks. On Amicus Expert if I set maximum backspin, only the bottom wheel rotates, and if I set maximum topspin, only the two top-side wheels rotate. Always out. And regardless the speed setting. Maybe Amicus Prime is different. Can you please once more describe what happens if you set maximum backspin (I don't care about topspin)? Do the two top-side wheels counter-rotate (rotate as if trying to throw the ball back into robot)?
    Maybe it's best to see for yourself.


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    #46
    Quote Originally Posted by 7sagittarius7
    Maybe it's best to see for yourself.
    I'd believe you if you say yes or no even without video. However I can't play it, it says "This video is private.".

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    #47
    Quote Originally Posted by latej
    I'd believe you if you say yes or no even without video. However I can't play it, it says "This video is private.".
    sorry, video should be available now

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    #48
    Quote Originally Posted by 7sagittarius7
    sorry, video should be available now
    Thank you. It must be great to swing total full power against such back-spin to get the ball hardly over net.

    When I bought Expert I thought the only difference to Prime is the UI (way of setting, not range of setting). Got caught...

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    #49
    Quote Originally Posted by 7sagittarius7
    Sorry but I didn't quite understand why they would have to counter rotating to get more extreme spin? I have a Butterfly Amicus Prime, and yes, it is not able to counter rotating, but when set to maximum spin (top or back) it is so extreme that it is practically impossible to return the ball to the opponent's side. Max spin is inhuman.

    Watch the first 30 sec of the video where max topspin and backspin are shown.
    Exactly, I don't practice against the top spin setting simply because it's not realistic that I would ever face a human player that can produce spin to those extreme levels.

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    #50
    Quote Originally Posted by IB66
    Hi Brokenball,

    I have the 2055 robo pong, have you had any issues with the ‘L’ shaped spring breaking? It’s labelled as part 50 in the manual, part# 2050-159A BF spring, medium (L shaped)
    2 of these springs have snapped at the attachment point.
    wondering if this is a problem other robo pong owners have?

    cheers.
    I assume you are referring to the little limit switch in the tube that is L or j shape that pushes a button when a ball goes by to control feeding.
    I haven't broken the spring yet but I have had to bend it back into place a few times so the balls will cause the metal to push the button. I am sure that the metal will break eventually. My Newgy 2050 is 11 years old and seems to work OK but I must take it apart to clean it and check how well the L shaped metal makes contact with the ball.

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    #51
    Quote Originally Posted by 7sagittarius7
    Sorry but I didn't quite understand why they would have to counter rotating to get more extreme spin? I have a Butterfly Amicus Prime, and yes, it is not able to counter rotating, but when set to maximum spin (top or back) it is so extreme that it is practically impossible to return the ball to the opponent's side. Max spin is inhuman.
    The problem is that the spin and speed are related. My Newgy 2050 can also generate a lot of spin but it is proportional to the speed since the Newgy has only one throw wheel. There is a friction pad opposite the throw wheel. The ball will be thrown at the average of the top wheel's tangential velocity and the friction pad velocity which is 0. The spin in radians per second will be approximately proportional to the half the top heads tangential velocity divided by the radius of the ball. When the ball hits the table the tangential velocity relative to the table is zero just like the tangential velocity of the ball relative to the friction pad is zero. This means the ball will not jump out low and fast like a good loop will do. If the bottom throw wheel can rotate backwards the spin of the ball will increase at the expense of speed but the ball will jump out low and fast. Fast because the spin on the ball will be converted to kinetic energy, speed and low because the Magnus effect will still be causing the ball to drop even after the bounce.

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    #52
    Quote Originally Posted by IB66
    Thank you for the reply !! I’ll give it a try when the new spring arrives!!! Cheers
    l made the hoop with the old broken spring s ,stretched , if your going to use a new one try it as new ... till it breaks it might last a long time not worth altering a good one .

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    #53
    And now Power Pong introduced a new model (Omega) with the same concept like that of Amicus Prime. It comes with a tablet !!!

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    #54

    Amicus prime does reverse the motors for extra topspin and backspin.

    brokenball;331762
    Can the throw wheels spin backwards? This is important because most of the robots do not allow the throw wheels to counter rotate. Obviously it is bad if all the throw wheels counter rotate at the same time.

    HOWEVER

    If you want to simulate a real loop the top throw wheel must rotate in the normal direction fast while the bottom throw wheel rotates backwards. This causes a high spin to speed ratio. Obviously the top head can be made to spin backwards while the bottom head spin in the normal way to create have back spin serves or chops.

    I have a newgy 2050 and it is OK for exercise but I would not recommend one for the serious TT players because there is only one throw wheel and a friction pad which means the spin to speed ratio is fixed.




    To brokenball;331767,

    The Amicus Prime can indeed “reverse the motors for extra topspin and backspin” to “simulate slow but very spinny loops”.

    To answer your question, the following two paragraphs are quoted verbatim from an article entitled “Long Review: Butterfly Amicus Prime Robot” written by Larry Thoman (Butterfly USA's in-house robot guru and former General Manager at Newgy). This article can be found on the Megaspin website. This quote is found towards the VERY END of the article—6 paragraphs and 5 paragraphs respectively from the end of the article.

    Long Review: Butterfly Amicus Prime Robot
    By Larry Thoman, Butterfly USA's in-house robot guru and former General Manager at Newgy

    “Another control of note is the SPIN CONTROL. This lets you select the DEGREE of TOPSPIN or BACKSPIN. Topspin has 7 degrees of spin from light to extremely heavy. The last two (6 & 7) use WHEEL REVERSAL TO PRODUCE THE HEAVIEST SPINS. For backspin, there are 5 degrees of spin with 4 & 5 using WHEEL REVERSAL TO PRODUCE HEAVY SPIN. (AMICUS has WHEEL REVERSAL.)

    REVERSING THE OPPOSING WHEEL(S) INCREASES SPIN AND DECREASES SPEED. This allows the Prime to use the full range of the speed/spin spectrum from approximately 10/90 speed/spin to 100/0. If robots don't reverse the opposing wheel(s), then they are limited in their speed/spin spectrum from approximately 50/50 to 100/0. So the Prime can throw shots like slow loops, ghost serves, or heavy floating chops where spin is very heavy but speed is very slow. IF A ROBOT DOES NOT REVERSE ITS WHEEL(S), THEN IT CANNOT PRODUCE SUCH SHOTS.

    I hope that answers your question.









    Last edited by WhiteKnightPoet; 02-19-2021 at 01:55 PM.

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    #55
    brokenball;331762
    Can the throw wheels spin backwards? This is important because most of the robots do not allow the throw wheels to counter rotate. Obviously it is bad if all the throw wheels counter rotate at the same time.

    No one has said whether or not the throw wheels can spin backwards. Doesn't anybody understand why this is important?

    To brokenball;331767,

    The Amicus Prime can indeed “reverse the motors for extra topspin and backspin” to “simulate slow but very spinny loops”.

    To answer your question, the following two paragraphs are quoted verbatim from an article entitled “Long Review: Butterfly Amicus Prime Robot” written by Larry Thoman (Butterfly USA's in-house robot guru and former General Manager at Newgy). This article can be found on the Megaspin website at the following web address. This quote is found towards the VERY END of the article—6 paragraphs and 5 paragraphs respectively from the end of the article.



    Long Review: Butterfly Amicus Prime Robot
    By Larry Thoman, Butterfly USA's in-house robot guru and former General Manager at Newgy

    “Another control of note is the SPIN CONTROL. This lets you select the DEGREE of TOPSPIN or BACKSPIN. Topspin has 7 degrees of spin from light to extremely heavy. The last two (6 & 7) use WHEEL REVERSAL TO PRODUCE THE HEAVIEST SPINS. For backspin, there are 5 degrees of spin with 4 & 5 using WHEEL REVERSAL TO PRODUCE HEAVY SPIN. (AMICUS has WHEEL REVERSAL.)

    REVERSING THE OPPOSING WHEEL(S) INCREASES SPIN AND DECREASES SPEED. This allows the Prime to use the full range of the speed/spin spectrum from approximately 10/90 speed/spin to 100/0. If robots don't reverse the opposing wheel(s), then they are limited in their speed/spin spectrum from approximately 50/50 to 100/0. So the Prime can throw shots like slow loops, ghost serves, or heavy floating chops where spin is very heavy but speed is very slow. IF A ROBOT DOES NOT REVERSE ITS WHEEL(S), THEN IT CANNOT PRODUCE SUCH SHOTS.

    I hope that answers your question.


    Last edited by WhiteKnightPoet; 02-19-2021 at 02:35 PM.

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    #56
    Sorry to bump this thread.

    I was looking to get a robot and was looking at the Amicus Prime. I also noticed that there is the new Power Pong Omega. Has anyone done a comparison between these two robots?? Is Butterfly planning to release a new robot anytime soon?

    Thanks in advance!

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