Backhand rubber

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Hi! I've bought and tested the Stiga Infinity VPS V blade and I like it but I want a recommendation for a backhand rubber. When I tested the blade I played with DNA Pro M on the backhand side and it feels like it's a bit soft. Many balls go into the net that I usually don't and I can't keep the pressure closer to the table with it when it's that soft.

So what can you recommend? I have some rubbers here at home. For example Xiom omega 7 pro and some tenergy 05fx and regular 05. I also have victas v15 extra. Can any of these be something good?
 
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I am kinda confused. You are saying that DNA M is too soft and because of that, you net the ball. Up to this point, I thought and felt that hardness is not directly related to the arc of the rubber. And I would assume that with more direct rubbers you would net the ball more easily. What I thought that sponge hardness is more like `required power to use the rubber`. From my experience and beliefs, harder rubbers required more acceleration to use them properly and spin the ball not necessarily gave more or less arc. I also experienced rubbers in very similar hardness, Tenergy 05 (bought it second hand, booster effect wore off, in Butterfly Scale it is 43, but in ESN scale its somewhere close to 48), EL Pro 48 and Vega X (47.5 degrees hardness) which were very different in its behavior and had different properties. I felt Vega X was direct in most of the strokes, Tenergy had a high arc on brushes and medium on hits and EL Pro was somewhere in the middle (I had limited experience with this rubber). With Tenergy I initially overshoot the ball on brushes but adjusted quickly. With Vega X I landed good brushes but had issues adjusting hits. Keep in mind that those are only my experiences and are related to my technique and blade (Dyjas Ultra Power, thin clipper clone), you might get different results.

I think that there might be more reasons to net the ball than that the rubber is too soft. When you net the ball you either missed the timing or the ball shoot of the bat too quickly without giving it high enough arc (which is correlated with rotation and momentum). Most often when I net the ball I want the point to bad and hit through the ball too flat or strike the ball too early. I think it would be beneficial to see you play as carl stated. Maybe you indeed bottom out the rubber and need something harder, but maybe you want to get something harder indeed. According to yogi_bear review, DNA Pro M is about 47.5, which is the same as the rubbers I mentioned before. Of course, perceived hardness is different than measured, but I think that said 47-48 degrees is a sweet spot for backhand.

Working on ball contact timing helped me more, than switching BH rubbers (I am sort of big EJ...) in terms of putting the ball on the table and not in the net neither off the table. Maybe if we could see you play we could elaborate more.

When it comes to rubber you already have I bet for 05. If you want something new Gewo EL Pro 48. It is a good rubber, made in the new thin top sheet thick sponge design philosophy. Maybe a thicker sponge will be harder to bottom out for you.

EDIT: I would like to add that all rubbers mentioned in this post are considered equal by me. They are just different flavors that may suit different people. I think that Vega X might be more suitable for FH play, but other than that, they are all very good. Also, the latter two (X and EL) are very affordable (I paid for them 20€ and 30€ accordingly for new sheets).
 
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I am kinda confused. You are saying that DNA M is too soft and because of that, you net the ball. Up to this point, I thought and felt that hardness is not directly related to the arc of the rubber. And I would assume that with more direct rubbers you would net the ball more easily. What I thought that sponge hardness is more like `required power to use the rubber`. From my experience and beliefs, harder rubbers required more acceleration to use them properly and spin the ball not necessarily gave more or less arc. I also experienced rubbers in very similar hardness, Tenergy 05 (bought it second hand, booster effect wore off, in Butterfly Scale it is 43, but in ESN scale its somewhere close to 48), EL Pro 48 and Vega X (47.5 degrees hardness) which were very different in its behavior and had different properties. I felt Vega X was direct in most of the strokes, Tenergy had a high arc on brushes and medium on hits and EL Pro was somewhere in the middle (I had limited experience with this rubber). With Tenergy I initially overshoot the ball on brushes but adjusted quickly. With Vega X I landed good brushes but had issues adjusting hits. Keep in mind that those are only my experiences and are related to my technique and blade (Dyjas Ultra Power, thin clipper clone), you might get different results.

I think that there might be more reasons to net the ball than that the rubber is too soft. When you net the ball you either missed the timing or the ball shoot of the bat too quickly without giving it high enough arc (which is correlated with rotation and momentum). Most often when I net the ball I want the point to bad and hit through the ball too flat or strike the ball too early. I think it would be beneficial to see you play as carl stated. Maybe you indeed bottom out the rubber and need something harder, but maybe you want to get something harder indeed. According to yogi_bear review, DNA Pro M is about 47.5, which is the same as the rubbers I mentioned before. Of course, perceived hardness is different than measured, but I think that said 47-48 degrees is a sweet spot for backhand.

Working on ball contact timing helped me more, than switching BH rubbers (I am sort of big EJ...) in terms of putting the ball on the table and not in the net neither off the table. Maybe if we could see you play we could elaborate more.

When it comes to rubber you already have I bet for 05. If you want something new Gewo EL Pro 48. It is a good rubber, made in the new thin top sheet thick sponge design philosophy. Maybe a thicker sponge will be harder to bottom out for you.

EDIT: I would like to add that all rubbers mentioned in this post are considered equal by me. They are just different flavors that may suit different people. I think that Vega X might be more suitable for FH play, but other than that, they are all very good. Also, the latter two (X and EL) are very affordable (I paid for them 20€ and 30€ accordingly for new sheets).

This is an excellent post through and through. More people should be pounding that like button on this post. Kuba Hajto, I agree with everything you have said here and it was nice to read it.
 
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says toooooo much choice!!
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I am kinda confused. You are saying that DNA M is too soft and because of that, you net the ball. Up to this point, I thought and felt that hardness is not directly related to the arc of the rubber. And I would assume that with more direct rubbers you would net the ball more easily. What I thought that sponge hardness is more like `required power to use the rubber`. From my experience and beliefs, harder rubbers required more acceleration to use them properly and spin the ball not necessarily gave more or less arc. I also experienced rubbers in very similar hardness, Tenergy 05 (bought it second hand, booster effect wore off, in Butterfly Scale it is 43, but in ESN scale its somewhere close to 48), EL Pro 48 and Vega X (47.5 degrees hardness) which were very different in its behavior and had different properties. I felt Vega X was direct in most of the strokes, Tenergy had a high arc on brushes and medium on hits and EL Pro was somewhere in the middle (I had limited experience with this rubber). With Tenergy I initially overshoot the ball on brushes but adjusted quickly. With Vega X I landed good brushes but had issues adjusting hits. Keep in mind that those are only my experiences and are related to my technique and blade (Dyjas Ultra Power, thin clipper clone), you might get different results.

I think that there might be more reasons to net the ball than that the rubber is too soft. When you net the ball you either missed the timing or the ball shoot of the bat too quickly without giving it high enough arc (which is correlated with rotation and momentum). Most often when I net the ball I want the point to bad and hit through the ball too flat or strike the ball too early. I think it would be beneficial to see you play as carl stated. Maybe you indeed bottom out the rubber and need something harder, but maybe you want to get something harder indeed. According to yogi_bear review, DNA Pro M is about 47.5, which is the same as the rubbers I mentioned before. Of course, perceived hardness is different than measured, but I think that said 47-48 degrees is a sweet spot for backhand.

Working on ball contact timing helped me more, than switching BH rubbers (I am sort of big EJ...) in terms of putting the ball on the table and not in the net neither off the table. Maybe if we could see you play we could elaborate more.

When it comes to rubber you already have I bet for 05. If you want something new Gewo EL Pro 48. It is a good rubber, made in the new thin top sheet thick sponge design philosophy. Maybe a thicker sponge will be harder to bottom out for you.

EDIT: I would like to add that all rubbers mentioned in this post are considered equal by me. They are just different flavors that may suit different people. I think that Vega X might be more suitable for FH play, but other than that, they are all very good. Also, the latter two (X and EL) are very affordable (I paid for them 20€ and 30€ accordingly for new sheets).

T05 hard is 43 degrees shore ‘A’ scale and that’s about 55 degrees on the Shore ‘O’ scale
T05/25/64/80 is 36 degrees ‘A’ 49 degrees ‘B’
the FX versions are softer, 32 deg ‘A’ 46 deg ‘O’
from what I understand DHS and Butterfly use the ‘A’ scale, Andro, Tibhar etc the ‘O’ scale. However some manufacturers use terms such as mid hard or soft or another hardness scale. So it gets confusing.
how a rubber feels and plays is a combination of both sponge and top sheet pimple structure etc, so a rubber with hard sponge and a soft top sheet doesn’t necessarily feel hard during play
 
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I put wrong number for the original tenergy hardness. But which scale which brand uses is a big mess. User hagisv from other forum actually has shore O durometer and measured rubbers. https://tabletennis-reviews.com/reference/sponge-hardness-table/

There is big variance between what esn claims and what is measured. For example Vega China should be 55 and is 60. Somewhere deep on other forums there is statement from zeio that suggests that esn uses asker scale.

I would still hold the claim that tenergy is about the same as other rubbers I mentioned. I would say it's definitely softer than ESN 50 rubbers (I only have Joola Golden tango ps in that bulpark)

Edit: Palio Blitz 47.5 is Esn rubber and measured 50 with shore O which is same as Tenergy.
 
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says toooooo much choice!!
says toooooo much choice!!
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I agree that the sponge hardness figures are a real mess, to easy to keep it simple and use 1 scale to measure the sponge hardness!!!
also the top sheets, pimple patterns and pimple sizes add additional confusion. As these can change how a rubber plays and feels.
I’m using the term ‘rubber’ as the complete sponge and top sheet package!!!!
I’ve used Evo MXP, MXS and Hexer powergrip on the bh side they have 47.5 degree hardness and are all good rubbers, also used Evo FXS which is 40 degree, I found this very safe but a little slow and, mushy. For example a forehand loop played with MXS followed by one played with FXS, the FXS shot would land around 300 to 400 mm from end of table , the MXS shot very close to the end of the table. Feeling from the 47.5 degree rubbers was better for me.
 
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