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    1. Top | #1
      Николай Петров is offline
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      TTD Member Country: Bulgaria

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      Xiom Vega Pro and Tenergy 05???

      Hello I have a quick question I was looking for alternative for tenergy rubber and I see everywhere people comparing tenergy 05 to xiom vega pro so what is the logic for tenergy which is 36-37 degrees hardness to be similar to vega pro which is 47.5 esn scale I don’t see the logic and not only xiom vega pro I see tenergy get compared to a lot of high hardness rubbers.

      Ps. I was looking for cheap rpb rubber and people everywhere recommend soft rubber thats why I was curious how can 36 and 47.5 hardness rubbers be so similar.

    2. Top | #2
      Kuba Hajto is offline
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      I own Xiom Vega X and Tenergy 05. Vega X is supposed to be the Vega Pro successor. They are indeed very similar in terms of hardness. They behave differently though. Those numbers are on different scales. 50 Fahrenheit and 50 Celcius isn't the same thing. We discussed hardness (even about the same rubbers) in this thread https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/for...ackhand-rubber. There is some information about scales and whatnot. It is unclear which brand uses which scale. There are two families of scales Asker and Shore. Hardness is measured by a device called a durometer. Those can have different shapes resulting in different readings on different Scales. Also, those scales are not linearly translatable. Here is a resource made by user Hagisv from a different forum. He tested some rubbers with Shore 0 durometer (https://tabletennis-reviews.com/refe...ardness-table/).

      EDIT: Try as many rubbers as you can. Buy whatever works for you. I am not familiar with RPB stroke so I can't recommend anything.
      Last edited by Kuba Hajto; 3 Weeks Ago at 07:35 PM.

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    4. Top | #3
      Николай Петров is offline
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      TTD Member Country: Bulgaria

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      So I did some research and basically DHS and Butterfly are around the same scale while other brands eu mostly use esn scale is that right?

    5. Top | #4
      Airoc is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Николай Петров View Post
      So I did some research and basically DHS and Butterfly are around the same scale while other brands eu mostly use esn scale is that right?
      Not even sure about "around" the same for DHS and BTY.

      For rubbers manufactured at ESN (not all European brands have all their stuff made there, not all stuff made there if from European brands) same scale applies.

      As for Vega pro vs t05, the basic charateristics (low catapult) are pretty similar. The high-end performance of t05 especially in terms of spin is much better, though.

      If you are a lower league player, likely to activate only 50 % out of t05s capabilities, you might just as well buy Vega pro.

      If you have higher demands, forget it.

      None of the players from first to fifth German league that I know have ever switched from t05 to Vega pro, even when the rubber was all the rage on a German forum.

      In fact, many of them haven´t switched at all but have stuck to tenergy even when better "alternatives" were around.

      It is only with the newest generation of ESN rubbers that some say "finally more spin than t05".

    6. Top | #5
      Kuba Hajto is offline
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      Senior TTD Member Country: Poland

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      Quote Originally Posted by Николай Петров View Post
      So I did some research and basically DHS and Butterfly are around the same scale while other brands eu mostly use esn scale is that right?
      Nope. DHS uses mostly shore A. ESN uses one of Asker scales according to zeio (http://mytabletennis.net/forum/rubbe...opic84873.html), but it is close to Shore 0. If rubber is manufactured by ESN it will have ESN hardness rating. I don't know which scale Butterfly uses but it is close to Shore A. 36 Butterfly is 50 Shore O, which is very close to 47-48 ESN. It's hella confusing.

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    8. Top | #6
      Airoc is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Kuba Hajto View Post
      It's hella confusing.
      But you explained it well.

    9. Top | #7
      Kuba Hajto is offline
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      Senior TTD Member Country: Poland

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      I would love to make a petition to ittf, so they can enforce publishing hardnesses in either standardized scale or multiple of them.

      Hardness is not be all end all measure, but it helps.

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    11. Top | #8
      mart1nandersson is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Kuba Hajto View Post
      I would love to make a petition to ittf, so they can enforce publishing hardnesses in either standardized scale or multiple of them.

      Hardness is not be all end all measure, but it helps.
      That's never going to happen as the ITTF only certifies top sheets so they don't really care about sponges (as long as the combination of rubber + sponge isn't too thick).

    12. Top | #9
      Kuba Hajto is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by mart1nandersson View Post
      That's never going to happen as the ITTF only certifies top sheets so they don't really care about sponges (as long as the combination of rubber + sponge isn't too thick).
      Ittf approved celluloid balls back then. If one controls whole domain, everything is subject of change.

      Wysłane z mojego ONEPLUS A6013 przy użyciu Tapatalka

    13. Top | #10
      IB66 is offline
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      Personally I think that Kuba is right, hardness scale for sponge, top sheet AND both when combined should be made available and measured in one universal hardness scale. ITTF could make a ruling if they wished to.
      May be there should be more info about the tackiness or grip of the top sheet as well, apparently there is a scale for tackiness as well !!!!! Hopefully only one !!!

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    15. Top | #11
      Kuba Hajto is offline
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      Senior TTD Member Country: Poland

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      Quote Originally Posted by IB66 View Post
      Personally I think that Kuba is right, hardness scale for sponge, top sheet AND both when combined should be made available and measured in one universal hardness scale. ITTF could make a ruling if they wished to.
      May be there should be more info about the tackiness or grip of the top sheet as well, apparently there is a scale for tackiness as well !!!!! Hopefully only one !!!
      I would be wary talking about tackiness. The problem is it could start tackiness wars, and having the tackiest rubber isn't always the best option. There is also a scale for grip I believe, but those measurements might not be the best for the ecosystem. How rubber feels is the most important indicator. If we are talking about developing useful metrics for customers, a test for how much acceleration is needed to activate rubber could be developed. That is usually highly correlated with hardness though.

    16. Top | #12
      Николай Петров is offline
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      Thanks for the help guys apparently the topic about the rubber hardnesses is still kinda confusing even after soo much years I see questions on forums about that from before 2010 and its still a mystery its just crazy ittf should do something about it its good that we have soo much reviews and information about rubbers these days so its not that important but still I would love all rubber hardnesses to be in one scale and category it would be soo much easier to measure still thanks for the good responses.

    17. Top | #13
      Konrad Bak is offline
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      mystery=$$$$

    18. Top | #14
      Pandausagikoara is offline
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      There are also variations in hardness in the same rubber...

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