What's the cause of overshooting ?

mart1nandersson · Jul 23, 2020

JesperStef said:
Any chance you could help us with a link to the podcast? I’m Danish, so I’d love to know about any good Swedish podcasts?

Sure. You'll find the Takashima episodes in "Pingistalk" episode 27 & 28:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/pingistalk/id1447436492

Pingistalk has been dormant for the past year but another good pod is "Pingispodden" which features Hampus Nordberg (pro in the French league):
https://podcasts.apple.com/se/podcast/pingispodden/id1445761849

lasta · Jul 23, 2020

I think the Swedes are right. My Chinese coach also told me to aim for just above the net.

ZeroTT · Jul 23, 2020

So basically every answer I got is technique based.
So I guess changing to softer rubbers or thinner rubber won't help?

I was hoping some set up adjustment would solve this, I play with Rhyzer 48 atm and according to Joola's chart a Rhyzer 43 would make my spins shorter, wouldn't this help?

Kolev · Jul 23, 2020

Playing with thinner sponge isn't that bad actually. You can still do what you do and meanwhile the balls certainly won't get too far. Also there is nothing shameful to play with something softer. In my club here in Brussels we have an ex Belgian number 14 who is in love with Calibra LT Sound and use it on a 5ply all wood blade. We also have ex number 3 who doesn't mind playing with just about any rubber preferably softer

Kuba Hajto · Jul 23, 2020

ZeroTT said:
So basically every answer I got is technique based.
So I guess changing to softer rubbers or thinner rubber won't help?

I was hoping some set up adjustment would solve this, I play with Rhyzer 48 atm and according to Joola's chart a Rhyzer 43 would make my spins shorter, wouldn't this help?

Why though. The practice is cheaper and has long term benefits. With most of the rubbers and blades, you can make most of those arcs. It's all in timing, swing direction (more up shorter, more forward longer), and contact thickness. We are not here to deny you buying next rubber or something. I would just advise for trying to bit more conscious about your stroke. User your whole body, hold racket loosely, long swing, focus on brushing, firm the grip in the moment of contact. I don't claim to have perfected those, but putting 30$ for 100 cheap Chinese training balls and couple of hours with a friend on a table made more impact on my play than any rubber ever did.

IB66 · Jul 23, 2020

Hi,
blades and rubbers are just that, blades and rubbers, they have to be used to gain ‘life’.
So regardless of soft sponge, soft top sheets, hard this hard that , no sponge, pimple out, they just do what you tell them too.
set ups can be varied to suit personnel style, but faults in a player’s technique don’t magically disappear if you change the set up, they just get toned down by equipment adjustments. (Or made worse !!!!)

yoass · Jul 23, 2020

Lula said:
Start aiming for the net. I think doing the same mistake over and over again is almost stupidity. Next time you miss it is better if you put the ball in the net. So aim for the net.

Adaptation can be tricky, and I’m 100% with Lula here.

If you’re overshootin structurally, check you net clearance first. Then, get your arc in.

Der_Echte · Jul 23, 2020

Kolev said:
Playing with thinner sponge isn't that bad actually. You can still do what you do and meanwhile the balls certainly won't get too far. Also there is nothing shameful to play with something softer. In my club here in Brussels we have an ex Belgian number 14 who is in love with Calibra LT Sound and use it on a 5ply all wood blade. We also have ex number 3 who doesn't mind playing with just about any rubber preferably softer

One of our founding Korea Foreign members was/prolly still is on Iceland Natl team (everyone called him ICE MAN)... at the time in 2011, he so loved Clalibra LT Sound, he won a few tourneys in Div 1 using it on a composite blade.

Metaxa · Jul 23, 2020

Go for a thinner rubber (1.9/2.0) or for a softer rubber (I tink for your game max. 45 but 43 will be much better for you)
Try 45 in 1.9 and 43 in 2.0 thickness.
Good luck!

IB66 · Jul 23, 2020

Der_Echte said:
One of our founding Korea Foreign members was/prolly still is on Iceland Natl team (everyone called him ICE MAN)... at the time in 2011, he so loved Clalibra LT Sound, he won a few tourneys in Div 1 using it on a composite blade.

I found that using Evo FXS was safer than MXP/MXS, the softer sponge made the ball fly less distance as the sponge / top sheet combo carried less spring effect, was slower, about 300 to 400mm shorter, so it compensated for over hitting, but over hitting wasn’t stopped completely ( as was netting shots !!!)
I have still been working on my technique regardless !!!!
I’ve just finished boosting a sheet of H3 Nat, waiting for the ‘dome effect’ to drop down before putting it on a blade. The rubber already feels softer / limper when you pick it up. Now, I’m told that boosting should actually make the rubber faster, even though the sponge / top sheet combo is softer!!!!!!!
So I suppose that ‘tackier’ rubbers which are usually slower could have the same effect as using a softer ESN sponge combo, less ball speed = less distance, more spin = better ‘dragging’ of the ball onto the table.

Der_Echte · Jul 23, 2020

IB66 said:
I found that using Evo FXS was safer than MXP/MXS... I have still been working on my technique regardless !!!!

Here is where I really wish Scoobie Doo Sergey Tsos would sign up for TTD and comment. He is 1.5 to 2 levels higher level player than me with long experience. He has seen me firsthad flip my bat from MX-K (a more linear MX-P with boosted top end) to the FX-S side on FH and saw the results.

I can spin better and have higher landing percentage. I have more confidence (since I see the ball land more often), and I go for more on hte shot... which in the end result, my ball is faster and spinnier than my MX-K shots (unless it is a power blast loop kill or smash)...

Sergey will tell you, being the joker on the other end of those opening loops and counter loops we do in practice together... he would tell you my overall QUALITY of my shot and the overall POWER of my shot is clearly better with FX-S. Plus... I land it higher percentage.

Short of it is, FX-S is good for my game for where I am... it is also going to help me develop better command of my strike zone and timing of the impact to ball... which down the road is really going to help me out when I go back to MX-K or harder sponged rubbers... at that point I would really be abel to use more of the potential of those rubbers.

zeio · Jul 25, 2020

Lula said:
Start aiming for the net. I think doing the same mistake over and over again is almost stupidity. Next time you miss it is better if you put the ball in the net. So aim for the net.

brokenball · Jul 25, 2020

I agree with Mart1nAndersson about hitting the ball thinner. This way there will be less speed but more spin and hopefully the same amount of energy. This is best but harder to do. It is easier to hit the ball with less speed.

I think we would all like to be able to return the ball 90% of the that means you have a better than 50% chance of getting the ball over 6 times. This would be pretty good since the average rally is 3.7 strokes for both players.

I agree with keeping the ball low over the net. Also the ball should be at its highest when going over the net to keep the ball from bouncing high. This also minimizes the flight time. However, a ball hit with more spin will tend to shoot out fast and low after the bounce.

Michael Kitt · Jul 25, 2020

Actually I imagined that the 90% was only in topspin drills. If accuracy is 90% in matches then you're probably not taking that many risks. Means you can probably afford to take more.

brokenball · Jul 30, 2020

Michael Kitt said:
Actually I imagined that the 90% was only in topspin drills. If accuracy is 90% in matches then you're probably not taking that many risks. Means you can probably afford to take more.

I don't think Der Echte was saying he gets back 90% of his ball but it is a nice goal.
I am a numbers guy so think about this.
If my opponent gets back 2/3 of his balls then I only need to get back 1/2 of mine to break even. 1/3 of time play will continue.
There if the opponent gets back 3/4 of the balls then I must get back 2/3 of them. 1/2 of the time play will continue.
There is a pattern here. If the opponent gets back n/(n+1) balls then I must get back (n-1)/n to break even. From this you can estimate whether making a risky shot is worth it.
You can also see that better players will have longer rallies.

Der_Echte · Jul 30, 2020

I had said that it would be awesum if he was having 90% landing rate, I do not achieve that... or I said words to that effect...

Baal · Jul 30, 2020

Sometimes it is a sign your are a little late getting to the ball and not quite as well balanced as when the ball goes more precisely where you want it. A lot of problems people think are in their arms/hands/paddle are actually in their feet. Not saying it's the case with the OP because I haven't seen him play. It is just a general observation.

Der_Echte · Jul 30, 2020

Baal made a DAMN GOOD POINT.

IB66 · Jul 30, 2020

I agree about movement, if you can arrive early and get in position, set and execute, then it’s likely that your success % will rise. Easier said than done!!!!
also the small continual movement, bouncing on your toes makes the smaller adjustments easier as well as being prepared for a larger movement, The temptation is to stretch slightly, say 50mm, this alters you’re stroke, if you’re light on your toes and take that small bounce of 50mm, then you can play the same stroke more often without having to stretch.
if the distance from the centre of your body to the tip of bat is ‘x’ and you play a successful stroke, ball landing on the opponents end line, but the next shot, played with the same force , (But a 50mm stretch)the distance is now‘x+50mm’ so the tip of your bat is now moving slightly faster during the stroke, so without feeling that you have hit the ball harder, you have actually hit the ball with a slightly faster stroke and therefore imparted slightly more energy.
these small differences can then contribute to a ball being over hit or overshooting the table, especially if you are playing good length balls.

Baal · Jul 31, 2020

With that in mind, I made the most improvement where my practice consisted of structured drills where I ALWAYS had to move to get to the ball and then execute a specific shot or pattern. Sometimes the drill was random, sometimes it was fixed. Then I'd play a few matches and then work in my service bit. All in about two hours. Some days I would only play matches but for quite a few years I stayed pretty diisciplined. The only forehand to forehand or backhand to backhand I would do was a few minutes to get my muscles warm and then it was time to get serious. Hitting from a static position can really induce some bad habits.

Seems long ago....

What's the cause of overshooting ?

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