What's the cause of overshooting ?

UpSideDownCarl · Jul 31, 2020

Baal said:
With that in mind, I made the most improvement where my practice consisted of structured drills where I ALWAYS had to move to get to the ball and then execute a specific shot or pattern. Sometimes the drill was random, sometimes it was fixed. Then I'd play a few matches and then work in my service bit. All in about two hours. Some days I would only play matches but for quite a few years I stayed pretty diisciplined. The only forehand to forehand or backhand to backhand I would do was a few minutes to get my muscles warm and then it was time to get serious. Hitting from a static position can really induce some bad habits.

Seems long ago....

This kind of training where you learn to track the ball with your feet is huge. Especially the stuff where you have a training glide path that leads towards random placement while moving to each ball.

Tinykin · Jul 31, 2020

Football

Baal said:
With that in mind, I made the most improvement where my practice consisted of structured drills where I ALWAYS had to move to get to the ball and then execute a specific shot or pattern. Sometimes the drill was random, sometimes it was fixed. Then I'd play a few matches and then work in my service bit. All in about two hours. Some days I would only play matches but for quite a few years I stayed pretty diisciplined. The only forehand to forehand or backhand to backhand I would do was a few minutes to get my muscles warm and then it was time to get serious. Hitting from a static position can really induce some bad habits.

Seems long ago....

I can't remember which Swedish coach I read/heard use that term first, "Always remember, football! That is, footwork then play the ball"

ZeroTT · Sep 1, 2020

Hey guys,

Sorry for reviving an old thread like this but since there is an update I'll share my experience.

A few days ago I replaced my Viscaria with a slower Primorac blade and the over shooting never happened again.
Maybe it could have been solved with perfecting technique, but I'm glad that the blade change had so much effect.
It seems the Viscaria wasn't perfect for my looping style (I always missed 1 or 2 times per set by like 1 or 2 inches)

yogi_bear · Sep 1, 2020

Well an all wood 5 ply blade always has better control.

IB66 · Sep 1, 2020

ZeroTT said:
Hey guys,

Sorry for reviving an old thread like this but since there is an update I'll share my experience.

A few days ago I replaced my Viscaria with a slower Primorac blade and the over shooting never happened again.
Maybe it could have been solved with perfecting technique, but I'm glad that the blade change had so much effect.
It seems the Viscaria wasn't perfect for my looping style (I always missed 1 or 2 times per set by like 1 or 2 inches)

Do you think that the change of blade has given Better control, less speed, better feel ??

Are you using the same rubbers that you were using on the Viscaria??

I suppose that this is the actually important as far as the change of blade is concerned. If you have changed rubbers as well, how can you be sure it’s the blade that has made a difference???

ZeroTT · Sep 1, 2020

IB66 said:
Do you think that the change of blade has given Better control, less speed, better feel ??

Are you using the same rubbers that you were using on the Viscaria??

I suppose that this is the actually important as far as the change of blade is concerned. If you have changed rubbers as well, how can you be sure it’s the blade that has made a difference???

I just transfered my old rubbers from Viscaria to Primorac, so the blade is the only change.

I always play with a high Arc and lots of spin.
And when I play with force or have to do a stroke out of position the Arc with Viscaria always went over by a few inches ( it's always really close).

I always blamed the rubbers and tried like tons of them (R47,R48,Gewo Nexus 48, Rhyzer48 and 43,Tenergy05,Dynaryz,Victas V11 extra,Rhyzer45 and 50)

This switch to Primorac was a last resort because according to that Matrix it was almost the opposite of the Viscaria (Primorac is was slower,and huge control with a classic 5 ply wood as opposed to carbon.)
And it would only cost me 29 Euro, worst case scenario it wouldn't help and at least I knew my technique was to blame.

But now with Primorac every Arc is way shorter, every powershot still lands comfortably on the table.
And even spins with very high Arc (like 50 cm above the net) still land. That is something I never could do with Viscaria.
Tbh I am happy I found the answer now instead of blaming rubbers.

I can feel that I overdid it a bit and went TOO slow with Primorac.
So my perfect blade will probably will be slower then Viscaria and faster then Primorac.
Prolly Something like Innerforce Layer ALC or Boll CAF or maybe a faster 5 ply wood blade with a bit less vibration.

IB66 · Sep 1, 2020

ZeroTT said:
I just transfered my old rubbers from Viscaria to Primorac, so the blade is the only change.

I always play with a high Arc and lots of spin.
And when I play with force or have to do a stroke out of position the Arc with Viscaria always went over by a few inches ( it's always really close).

I always blamed the rubbers and tried like tons of them (R47,R48,Gewo Nexus 48, Rhyzer48 and 43,Tenergy05,Dynaryz,Victas V11 extra,Rhyzer45 and 50)

This switch to Primorac was a last resort because according to that Matrix it was almost the opposite of the Viscaria (Primorac is was slower,and huge control with a classic 5 ply wood as opposed to carbon.)
And it would only cost me 29 Euro, worst case scenario it wouldn't help and at least I knew my technique was to blame.

But now with Primorac every Arc is way shorter, every powershot still lands comfortably on the table.
And even spins with very high Arc (like 50 cm above the net) still land. That is something I never could do with Viscaria.
Tbh I am happy I found the answer now instead of blaming rubbers.

I can feel that I overdid it a bit and went TOO slow with Primorac.
So my perfect blade will probably will be slower then Viscaria and faster then Primorac.
Prolly Something like Innerforce Layer ALC or Boll CAF or maybe a faster 5 ply wood blade with a bit less vibration.

I had a similar problem when I tried the DHS long 5 blade, too fast for me, but still a pussy cat compared to the old Tamca 5000 blades I used 30yrs ago, rubbers were not as fast little catapult then though!!!!

A slightly faster blade may be suited for you, but maybe stick to all wood first.
Don’t underestimate the increased spin possibilities as more spin = faster kick so the Primorac may be sort of fast!!!

Nice to hear you’ve sorted out the overshooting

UpSideDownCarl · Sep 1, 2020

Korbel or Tibhar Stratus Power Wood may also be a good step up from the Primorac. But the IFL ALC should be pretty good.

The softer top ply of the Primorac or all the blades I just mentioned above will help with the control and may allow you to get a little more spin even if you already get a lot of spin.

Evil.

IB66 · Sep 1, 2020

Hi Carl,
just about to suggest the Korbut, SK 7 or Boll performance.

IB66 · Sep 1, 2020

Opps!! Maze performance, Boll Forte.

ZeroTT · Sep 1, 2020

UpSideDownCarl said:
Korbel or Tibhar Stratus Power Wood may also be a good step up from the Primorac. But the IFL ALC should be pretty good.

The softer top ply of the Primorac or all the blades I just mentioned above will help with the control and may allow you to get a little more spin even if you already get a lot of spin. Evil.

Yeah, I consider myself an expert as far as rubbers go because I tested so many.
But I literally know nothing about blades I only played with Viscaria and Timo Boll the last 15 years because those blades had legendary status and I thought there could never be something wrong with it.

So your tips are always a big help.

I almost bought a Harimoto ALC because everyone said it was basically an innnerforce ALC.
But this article on ttgearlab saying that it is almost as fast as Boll ALC has made me scared of it

https://ttgearlab.com/2019/12/10/ho...-innerforce-layer-alc-comparison-by-lab-test/

ZeroTT · Sep 1, 2020

IB66 said:
Hi Carl,
just about to suggest the Korbut, SK 7 or Boll performance.

By SK 7 did you mean SK7 Carbon?
Because that was a blade that caught my eye because it was 76 Grams which is awesome.
But I never heard of the name and it use Tamca5000 and I never ever heared of that material and have no clue how that plays so I crossed it off because of that.

UpSideDownCarl · Sep 1, 2020

T5000 Carbon is hard and FAST. [emoji91]

But it does also depend what wood it is put in.

Timo Boll Tamca 5000 is the fastest TB blade but also the hardest.

On the Primorac Carbon or the Schlager Carbon it is crazy fast but there is still a lot of control because the top ply is Hinoki/Cyprus. And those woods are fast but soft so they pair really nicely with T5000.

But isn’t Korbel SK7 all wood?

ZeroTT · Sep 2, 2020

UpSideDownCarl said:
T5000 Carbon is hard and FAST. [emoji91]

But it does also depend what wood it is put in.

Timo Boll Tamca 5000 is the fastest TB blade but also the hardest.

On the Primorac Carbon or the Schlager Carbon it is crazy fast but there is still a lot of control because the top ply is Hinoki/Cyprus. And those woods are fast but soft so they pair really nicely with T5000.

But isn’t Korbel SK7 all wood?

I was talking about SK7 Carbon :
https://shop.butterflyonline.com/sk-carbon-blade-7807p

I heared that Tamca5000 is always superfast but butterfly said that this blade is moderatly fast and is good for transitioning from wood to carbon:

Easy-To-Use Carbon Blade Style: Attack | Reaction: 10.5 | Vibration: 10.5

Fueled by TAMCA 5000 Carbon
Thin and lightweight for offensive play
Recommended for players transitioning from an all-wood blade
Good speed and feel for a Carbon fiber racket
In the ‘sweet-spot’ of the blade matrix

The fact that almost no one uses it and it's hard to find reviews tells me it's better to keep away from it.

tt_kidz · Sep 2, 2020

ZeroTT said:
Yeah, I consider myself an expert as far as rubbers go because I tested so many.
But I literally know nothing about blades I only played with Viscaria and Timo Boll the last 15 years because those blades had legendary status and I thought there could never be something wrong with it.

So your tips are always a big help.

I almost bought a Harimoto ALC because everyone said it was basically an innnerforce ALC.
But this article on ttgearlab saying that it is almost as fast as Boll ALC has made me scared of it

https://ttgearlab.com/2019/12/10/ho...-innerforce-layer-alc-comparison-by-lab-test/

If you are looking for something slower than Viscaria, you should stay away from the Harimoto blades both ALC or ZLC versions.

None of them are slower by any chance vs the Viscaria.

Personally, all Harimoto blades have a high rebound rate that suits the counter aggressive playing style. Very direct and very little arc.

ZeroTT · Sep 2, 2020

tt_kidz said:
If you are looking for something slower than Viscaria, you should stay away from the Harimoto blades both ALC or ZLC versions.

None of them are slower by any chance vs the Viscaria.

Personally, all Harimoto blades have a high rebound rate that suits the counter aggressive playing style. Very direct and very little arc.

TTgearlab says exactly the same, so you must be right.
Weird though since it's an Innerforce Blade which normally should be slower then an outer ALC blade.

tt_kidz · Sep 2, 2020

ZeroTT said:
TTgearlab says exactly the same, so you must be right.
Weird though since it's an Innerforce Blade which normally should be slower then an outer ALC blade.

It has not been confirmed, but I do feel Harimoto's blade has a treated or hardening effect done to the outer veneer similar to those treatment popularise in Stiga blades, my personal thoughts.

For Innerforce blades, the only thing you have to be concern is the non linear or many gears, which tends to throw many players off. Soft touches are great however I have always found it difficult to know when the inner carbon is engage especially on the harder shots and thus causing overshoots on stronger strokes.

Considering that you have been doing great with Viscaria, I can see someone has suggested opting for thinner sponges and I do believe that is a better choice than changing the equipment altogether. Changing to a new blade also means having to get use to the new hand feel and adapt to the new blade quirks. Even the same blade will play slightly differently thus the reason why changing equipment would always be the last choice.

Though it is always the most interesting.. chasing the Holy Grail.

IB66 · Sep 2, 2020

UpSideDownCarl said:
T5000 Carbon is hard and FAST. [emoji91]

But it does also depend what wood it is put in.

Timo Boll Tamca 5000 is the fastest TB blade but also the hardest.

On the Primorac Carbon or the Schlager Carbon it is crazy fast but there is still a lot of control because the top ply is Hinoki/Cyprus. And those woods are fast but soft so they pair really nicely with T5000.

But isn’t Korbel SK7 all wood?

Yep, Korbel SK7 is a 7 ply all wood blade.

zeio · Sep 2, 2020

I feel as though this thread was started as a way to formulate a valid reason to extend the EJ journey into blades, as the options with rubbers have been exhausted?

ZeroTT · Sep 3, 2020

zeio said:
I feel as though this thread was started as a way to formulate a valid reason to extend the EJ journey into blades, as the options with rubbers have been exhausted?

Haha, I hope not. I never changed blades the last 10 years.
But it's a bit silly to search for all solutions in rubbers and discarding the blade.

I just wanted to experience an all wood blade because in 25 years of table tennis I never played with one.
And 29 Euro for a classic blade like Primorac isn't a big waste.

What's the cause of overshooting ?

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