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  1. Jeppe950 is offline
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    #781
    Looking forward to the team tournament now, which teams will medal. Outside of China I see Japan, Germany, Taiwan, Sweden, South Korea etc as potential candidates.

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    #782
    Quote Originally Posted by Takkyu_wa_inochi
    the Chinese way of choooooing: make it louder from 7-7, make it loudest in last game and stare well at your opponent

    Ma Long was louder than Harimoto. How disrespectful for his own teammate
    Same for Chen Meng

    /s

    All is fair in love and war between teammates in an Olympic final. This is the rule I tell you,..

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    #783
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeppe950
    Looking forward to the team tournament now, which teams will medal. Outside of China I see Japan, Germany, Taiwan, Sweden, South Korea etc as potential candidates.

    I haven't seen the draw but the best candidates are Taiwan, Germany, Korea then maybe Sweden - I think Taiwan are the darkhorses. Japanese men are a mess. They would have to play Mizutani in singles and Harimoto and Niwa in doubles to make sense.

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    #784
    unfortunately they will play with Mizutani + Niwa in doubles. yeh they're in a mess. I hope at least they get thru Sweden in QF, but im not even sure they will.Germany and Korea are both strong, not sure Japan will get even the bronze.OTOH, the girls should get easily the finals, i think to have a chance to win, they should ask ISHIKAWA to get sick, and put HAYATA instead, and then let ITO+HAYATA play doubles, and ITO play in 3rd match. those must absolutely be won, then hope for another miracle.On the men's side, Im not sure UDA would get better results than NIWA, but at least he'd move his ass

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    Last edited by Takkyu_wa_inochi; 07-30-2021 at 03:09 PM.

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    #785
    Germany - Japan on the men's side should be fire. I can see Germany seriously challenging China in the final if they go through JNT. Anyone outside of those 3 in the final would be a huge upset. Taipei and Korea have an outside chance I guess, a super tiny one.

    Trivia about Taipei's team: born in 1981, 1991 and 2001
    the commentator lists Grand Slam winners, calls JOW John Oev Wellner, LGL Louis Goodland (not kidding)

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    #786
    Quote Originally Posted by NextLevel
    Most of the "Ma Long is not the GOAT" arguments before this were largely trolling or emotional or based on the belief he is competing in a significantly weaker era. By the numbers, there really is no argument. But he took Dima's best and that is the best Europe had to offer no doubt. The two Olympic golds shouldn't change anyone's minds because he was already the man.
    ML has indirectly admitted the previous Olympic cycle was a much weaker era in the early part of the interview before Tokyo 2020 that I didn't translate.

    https://sports.sina.com.cn/others/pi...k0770318.shtml
      在被问及为去东京比赛做出了怎样的准备时,马龙说:“作为我来说,其实比上一个周期,整体外国选手这种整体水平,感觉要高了很多。可能现在要随便说出来,就有好几个运动员,我觉得跟我们其实水平都差不多的,所以这些运动员的这些压力上,我觉得本身运动员的压力就会给我很多。
    When asked how he prepared for the Tokyo Olympics, Ma Long said: "As for me, the overall level of foreign players is actually much higher than in the previous cycle. If you ask me now, I could probably name a few off the top of my head. I think they are at the same level as us. Therefore, in terms of pressure from these players, I think these very players alone will give me a handful."

    Either way, ML had a fantastic draw here. The players he named specifically, Harimoto, Lin Yun-Ju, Pitchford, Darko and Pucar were drawn far from him. Jorgic alone took out Pitchford and Harimoto. Ignoring that, Harimoto would have to get past Lin Yun-Ju to meet FZD.

    FZD/JYS/Boll - 1st 1/16th
    Harimoto/LYJ/Pitchford/Jorgic - 2nd 1/16th
    Pucar - 3rd 1/16th
    ML - 4th 1/16th

    FZD : ML :: ML : WH. Simple as that. The players ML had trouble with were denied by his teammate and others.
    Last edited by zeio; 07-30-2021 at 04:06 PM.
    Race for Tokyo 2020+1 - Women's Top 11, Japan
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    #787
    Quote Originally Posted by NextLevel
    Most of the "Ma Long is not the GOAT" arguments before this were largely trolling or emotional or based on the belief he is competing in a significantly weaker era. By the numbers, there really is no argument. But he took Dima's best and that is the best Europe had to offer no doubt. The two Olympic golds shouldn't change anyone's minds because he was already the man.

    Well goat is not only about numbers. MJ in basketball is not the goat because he has the best statistics and personal records. Numbers and records dont make me passionate about a player or a sport

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    #788
    Quote Originally Posted by TTFrenzy

    Well goat is not only about numbers. MJ in basketball is not the goat because he has the best statistics and personal records. Numbers and records dont make me passionate about a player or a sport


    Dude what are you talking about? Michael Jordan is universally considered the greatest precisely because of his accolades. 6x Champ, 6x Finals MVP, 5x MVP, DPOY, etc... Just like Ma Long these records are undeniable.

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    #789
    Quote Originally Posted by zeio
    ML has indirectly admitted the previous Olympic cycle was a much weaker era in the early part of the interview before Tokyo 2020 that I didn't translate.

    https://sports.sina.com.cn/others/pi...k0770318.shtml

    When asked how he prepared for the Tokyo Olympics, Ma Long said: "As for me, the overall level of foreign players is actually much higher than in the previous cycle. If you ask me now, I could probably name a few off the top of my head. I think they are at the same level as us. Therefore, in terms of pressure from these players, I think these very players alone will give me a handful."

    Either way, ML had a fantastic draw here. The players he named specifically, Harimoto, Lin Yun-Ju, Pitchford, Darko and Pucar were drawn far from him. Jorgic alone took out Pitchford and Harimoto. Ignoring that, Harimoto would have to get past Lin Yun-Ju to meet FZD.

    FZD/JYS/Boll - 1st 1/16th
    Harimoto/LYJ/Pitchford/Jorgic - 2nd 1/16th
    Pucar - 3rd 1/16th
    ML - 4th 1/16th

    FZD : ML :: ML : WH. Simple as that. The players ML had trouble with were denied by his teammate and others.

    Ma Long has beaten all those players, except maybe Pitchford, but I am not in the mood to check. Ultimately, Ma Long always has a lucky draw when he wins and an unlucky one when he loses - he creates his own luck. Maybe Dima should be thankful that Japan sent Niwa and not Mizutani?

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    #790
    Quote Originally Posted by Takkyu_wa_inochi
    unfortunately they will play with Mizutani + Niwa in doubles. yeh they're in a mess. I hope at least they get thru Sweden in QF, but im not even sure they will.Germany and Korea are both strong, not sure Japan will get even the bronze.OTOH, the girls should get easily the finals, i think to have a chance to win, they should ask ISHIKAWA to get sick, and put HAYATA instead, and then let ITO+HAYATA play doubles, and ITO play in 3rd match. those must absolutely be won, then hope for another miracle.On the men's side, Im not sure UDA would get better results than NIWA, but at least he'd move his ass

    They should wait to the semifinals or finals to implement this - it just might work, but for the problem that Ito hasn't done that well against any of the Chinese ladies other than LSW, who the Chinese will definitely hide, and Miu Hirano has nothing to offer as well.

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    #791
    Quote Originally Posted by TTFrenzy

    Well goat is not only about numbers. MJ in basketball is not the goat because he has the best statistics and personal records. Numbers and records dont make me passionate about a player or a sport

    ???
    How else are you gonna measure a person's achievement in a sport if not numbers?
    Personality? Influence? Smug expression while playing?

    If we were talking about personal favorites that'd be one thing but GOAT can only be measured by numbers.

  12. zeio is offline
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    #792
    Quote Originally Posted by mrk
    That was so close for both chinese men wow, I did not expect this. Ovtcharov usually has no chance against Ma Long, this is surprising. And LIN Yun-Ju is huge, a pity he lost. But he is the biggest threat for them in the next years imho. (Harimoto stagnated unfortunately with no real progress and isn't good enough)
    Harimoto:
    WTTC 2017 - QF
    WTTC 2019 - R16
    WC 2019 - Silver
    WC 2020 - Bronze
    Tokyo 2020 - R16
    Forget the WTGF and WT titles. Who cares.

    LYJ:
    WTTC 2017 - R128
    WTTC 2019 - R64
    WC 2019 - Bronze
    WC 2020 - QF
    Tokyo 2020 - 4th

    I don't know. Harimoto is the youngest here, turning 18 just a month ago. Lin Yun-Ju will turn 20 two weeks later. Are we really assessing "progress" based on just 1 tournament? Just because LYJ 4-0 Jorgic, 3-4 FZD and 3-4 DO? What about the fact that LYJ has not beaten Harimoto in an international match to this date?

    Boll's...ahem, I mean Ovtcharov's first Olympic singles at 19 was ugly. For the record, Ko Lai Chak, who is a doubles specialist like Rosskopf, took out Gionis(R64), RSM(R32), Ovtcharov(R16), taking 1 game off of WH(QF).

    Here at Tokyo 2020, Jorgic is not unlike Ko Lai Chak in his road to the QF. Forum folks are not taking him seriously. He almost pushed ML to the decider at WC 2020.

    Harimoto lost 3-4, not 0-4. He would have collapsed after lagging 1-2 in games against Jorgic if he were the Harimoto against Pitchford at WTTC 2018 or TWC 2018. His mental game had already improved by a lot playing Pitchford again at TWC 2019. That's progress.

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    #793
    It's numbers either way, the argument is which ones. Like there are people arguing that since Messi hasn't won WC with Argentina he can't be the goat. Which is obviously a bad argument, considering his other achievements and, more importantly, that football is a team game. But with Ma Long I reckon you can pick whichever numbers you like and still end up with him being the best :-)
    the commentator lists Grand Slam winners, calls JOW John Oev Wellner, LGL Louis Goodland (not kidding)

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    #794
    In my opinion, Fan Zhendong is now clearly the most under-accomplished player in international level TT (excluding maybe excellent Chinese players who never even get a change to step on the international stage). He's one of the best players of all time in terms of his level of play (even when you adjust for different eras, few have been quite so dominant). Hope he gets the big title(s) he deserves soon.

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    #795
    Quote Originally Posted by NextLevel

    They should wait to the semifinals or finals to implement this - it just might work, but for the problem that Ito hasn't done that well against any of the Chinese ladies other than LSW, who the Chinese will definitely hide, and Miu Hirano has nothing to offer as well.

    You may be right, but if Miu Hirano gets paired w/ LSW in a singles matchup, I'm hoping a combination of fresh legs, best of 5 format, and the added power she's developed since they've last played is enough to get one in the win column for the Japanese women. A win in doubles is an absolute must. And Mima needs to get one as well. This Olympics has had some surprises/comebacks so I'm hoping for another miracle.

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    #796
    anyway HAYATA won't play. so this is pure speculation.

    a victory in doubles counts the same as in singles. The Japanese should now understand that ITO winning CM or SYS is much less likely than winning the doubles, and the HAYATA / ITO pair would be much better than HAYATA / HIRANO. ITO/HAYATA have played together many times, and won the national champs several times, and iirc also on the tour. By playing the doubles, ITO would for sure avoid CM or SYS, giving 50% chance of an encounter with LSW.

    Then HIRANO has done nothing in last 3 years against China, but if Japan has a lead, and its only best-of-5, with the pressure, you'd never know. And HAYATA has also a singles to play.

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    #797
    Kasumi can redeem herself by help winning doubles w/ Hirano. Mima needs to win one of her two matches. She lost focus after being up 9-3 in the 2nd vs SYS but who knows what would have happened if she got that game so it's still possible to win a best of 5 with one of them. My hope is for Hirano to create a huge upset by beating LSW (hoping that's her opponent).

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    #798
    Man proposes, and God disposes.

    FORECAST IS NO GAINER.

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    #799
    Quote Originally Posted by zeio
    Harimoto:
    WTTC 2017 - QF
    WTTC 2019 - R16
    WC 2019 - Silver
    WC 2020 - Bronze
    Tokyo 2020 - R16
    Forget the WTGF and WT titles. Who cares.

    LYJ:
    WTTC 2017 - R128
    WTTC 2019 - R64
    WC 2019 - Bronze
    WC 2020 - QF
    Tokyo 2020 - 4th

    I don't know. Harimoto is the youngest here, turning 18 just a month ago. Lin Yun-Ju will turn 20 two weeks later. Are we really assessing "progress" based on just 1 tournament? Just because LYJ 4-0 Jorgic, 3-4 FZD and 3-4 DO? What about the fact that LYJ has not beaten Harimoto in an international match to this date?

    Boll's...ahem, I mean Ovtcharov's first Olympic singles at 19 was ugly. For the record, Ko Lai Chak, who is a doubles specialist like Rosskopf, took out Gionis(R64), RSM(R32), Ovtcharov(R16), taking 1 game off of WH(QF).

    Here at Tokyo 2020, Jorgic is not unlike Ko Lai Chak in his road to the QF. Forum folks are not taking him seriously. He almost pushed ML to the decider at WC 2020.

    Harimoto lost 3-4, not 0-4. He would have collapsed after lagging 1-2 in games against Jorgic if he were the Harimoto against Pitchford at WTTC 2018 or TWC 2018. His mental game had already improved by a lot playing Pitchford again at TWC 2019. That's progress.

    The problem is that a lot of things are read off one match. Losing 3-4 to Jorgic who Lin beat 4-0 easily. ML struggles to beat Dima 4-3 and is not in form because he is losing a game here and there, but for some reason in the final, FZD forgot how to do a backhand down the line consistently and ML was magically there to cover it on demand the few times FZD did it and even did more than his own fair share. It is easy to be deceived by the prior match patterns into long term conjectures.

    But I really appreciate your reminder that whatever we think of Harimoto, he is almost 2 years younger than LYJ.

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    #800
    Quote Originally Posted by popte


    Dude what are you talking about? Michael Jordan is universally considered the greatest precisely because of his accolades. 6x Champ, 6x Finals MVP, 5x MVP, DPOY, etc... Just like Ma Long these records are undeniable.


    Yes but how do you argue when someone presents to you the records of lebron james, wilt Chamberlain or kobe bryant. U dont get my point.MJ was the best even when he didnt have any titles. Just watch some 80's interviews or matches, MJ was annihilating everyone but he didnt have the right teammates /coach until pippen and phil jackson arrived. Only then he started winning titles. And one last thing MJ could "fly' u simply cant beat that even if u win 11 nba champs. This is why bill russel isnt the goat and mj is

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