review and comparison; bluesponge hurricane 3 vs dignics 09c vs 37 degree hurricane 3

Der_Echte · Jul 28, 2020

Interesting... Japanese lady wearing a Korean National jersey...

Right now in Korea, almost everyone is in hte middle of the Boycot Japan movement (suppose this is because Japan govt is too smirky dismissive in saying sorry 100+ yrs late for taking over Korea about 100yrs ago and ruling it brutally, by destroying all natural resources and making everyone speak Japanese, or else... Guess old grudges do not die so easily.

So this is interesting.

What is more interesting is I still see Korean online TT stores sell Japanese TT gears... and I still see Korean Amateur playrs on Korean TT forums go Ga-Ga Goo-Goo over the BTY blades and new rubbers... so there is a limit to the effectiveness of the movement.

I suppose Koreans see this vid of a japanese Lady wearing their national jersey in a TT vid and not like it so much... unlikely this vid will go viral in Korea.

Der_Echte · Jul 28, 2020

As for her ability to really get what is needed out of Hurricane rubber boosted... about anyone can see her FH is not so optimal for this rubber... but still, that wouldn't/shouldn't take away from any knowledge or discernment to make competent comments about it on her part.

In Korea, Nexy Korea is the DHS distributor and seels the Neo, Prov, and Natl versions of H3.

bobpuls · Jul 28, 2020

NextLevel said:
So if Timo Boll or Samsonov used a rubber like this, would you say the same thing? I don't know her playing level but I suspect that she is a pretty good player and I think that you are possibly being sexist in the worst possible way.

Do not push me into your small world of paranoia.

zeio · Jul 28, 2020

I'm more impressed by her English. From her interview with SousPeak, she started learning English seriously in 2017? Her TOEIC score went from 400 to 875 after returning from overseas. 860-990 is considered gold.

NextLevel · Jul 28, 2020

bobpuls said:
Do not push me into your small world of paranoia.

I just wonder why someone who isn't close to the level of the reviewer in technical proficiency feels like she lacks the technique to review equipment that he probably.cant use at anything close to the same level.

NextLevel · Jul 28, 2020

Der_Echte said:
As for her ability to really get what is needed out of Hurricane rubber boosted... about anyone can see her FH is not so optimal for this rubber... but still, that wouldn't/shouldn't take away from any knowledge or discernment to make competent comments about it on her part.

In Korea, Nexy Korea is the DHS distributor and seels the Neo, Prov, and Natl versions of H3.

Yeah and my forehand is not optimal for table tennis. The whole idea that a forehand is not optimal for this nor that is largely a bunch of nonsense, with all due respect. Moat people just prefer for their strokes to feel a certain way but most decent players can hit good forehands with anything once they practice enough with it. They just enjoy using certain things more depending on how much energy they likely to put into every shot.

Thomas Keinath has a forehand that would make most people who look at it have a superiority complex and he uses Hurricane rubber. Emmanuel Lebesson uses a softer non tacky rubber and has a more aggressive technique. For most people, that should be enough to get them to stop talking about technique being optimal for this or that rubber. And even if she supposedly can't use the rubber, would we then say that Ma Long doesn't have the stroke for Tenergy or that Timo Boll doesn't have the stroke for Hurricane?

I have used tacky and non-tacky rubber for years. For me it comes down to how healthy I am.and the effort I want to put in. I would be hard pressed if anyone said that my technique was visibly different with either though I would make subtle feeling and timing adjustments for sure.

bobpuls · Jul 28, 2020

NL . Why you have to attack everyone who doesn't share your opinion or say something you do not like ?
It is freedom of speech so i used it ... and i did not say anything wrong or offensive i just spoke my mind .
And this is the last line in this thread from me .

NextLevel · Jul 28, 2020

bobpuls said:
NL . Why you have to attack everyone who doesn't share your opinion or say something you do not like ?
It is freedom of speech so i used it ... and i did not say anything wrong or offensive i just spoke my mind .
And this is the last line in this thread from me .

I am not attacking you. You were the one that wrote her stroke was a weak stroke and typical of a woman or something like that. And I am wondering whether many forum members here (men or women) play as athletically or hit the ball as powerfully as she does, hence the disconnect.

Konrad Bak · Jul 29, 2020

deleted

zyu81 · Jul 29, 2020

Konrad Bak said:
so how we can rate stroke from this mythomaniac? 3:20, 4:02
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7F9KlmC39k

Biomechanically much worse than the previous reviewer. Why?

JediJesseS · Jul 29, 2020

Her stroke is excellent. Most of the things you read online about the "technique" and "brush" needed to use chinese rubbers is mystical nonsense anyway. I detect a certain level of sexist bias in bobpuls' comments.

zyu81 · Jul 29, 2020

JediJesseS said:
Her stroke is excellent. Most of the things you read online about the "technique" and "brush" needed to use chinese rubbers is mystical nonsense anyway. I detect a certain level of sexist bias in bobpuls' comments.

I'm just waiting for langel to explain why he thinks that she would bust her head open with her forehand stroke if someone played a counter.

Der_Echte · Jul 29, 2020

JediJesseS said:
Her stroke is excellent. Most of the things you read online about the "technique" and "brush" needed to use chinese rubbers is mystical nonsense anyway. I detect a certain level of sexist bias in bobpuls' comments.

Jedi, I would like for you to clearly define SEXIST and show exactly what Bobpuls said that was sexist. That would go a long way to support your statement. As it is, you are just running your mouth off until you can show this. Maybe you think it is self-evident, but just show why it is to be very clear about it.

When you go in a public spance and say stuff like you just did, you need to back it up. Those are not light words, and ifg you said that to me without proof, I would get in your face and we would RUMBLE for such an accusation without proof.

So, tell everyone what your definition of sexist should be, and exactly what Bob siad that was sexist and CLEARLY ARTICULATE IT, instead of THINKING everyone knows this. PROVE IT.

Now you may end up stating a good definition of sexist utterance, and clearly articulate what Bob said beacme a sexist statement.

I would look at your evidence and form my opinion. I might end up agreeing with you.

The way you chose to express yourself is irresponsible. Prove your opinion, or at least, clearly articulate why this is sexist.

Thanks you for being a citizen.

...EDIT and I showed I cannot type and spell the first time worth a crap.

Der_Echte · Jul 29, 2020

NextLevel said:
Yeah and my forehand is not optimal for table tennis. The whole idea that a forehand is not optimal for this nor that is largely a bunch of nonsense, with all due respect. Moat people just prefer for their strokes to feel a certain way but most decent players can hit good forehands with anything once they practice enough with it. They just enjoy using certain things more depending on how much energy they likely to put into every shot.

Thomas Keinath has a forehand that would make most people who look at it have a superiority complex and he uses Hurricane rubber. Emmanuel Lebesson uses a softer non tacky rubber and has a more aggressive technique. For most people, that should be enough to get them to stop talking about technique being optimal for this or that rubber. And even if she supposedly can't use the rubber, would we then say that Ma Long doesn't have the stroke for Tenergy or that Timo Boll doesn't have the stroke for Hurricane?

I have used tacky and non-tacky rubber for years. For me it comes down to how healthy I am.and the effort I want to put in. I would be hard pressed if anyone said that my technique was visibly different with either though I would make subtle feeling and timing adjustments for sure.

You bring up good points. Your main point being that people's stroke does not have to be "Optimal" in order to use cetain equipment.

I will fully support such a statement and way of thinking.

MY point(s), which I stand by, is that...

1) The Japanese lady's FH is not a FH that would be able to utilize the top end properties of that rubber.
2) The Japanese lady CLEARLY has enough knowledge and ability to be able to articulate this or that about a H3 or any rubber. (Her lack of ability to bang impact the ball is irrelevant to her clear ability to articulate a rubber's proerties)

I have said it over and over about myself. My FH is nowhere near able to use the top end proterties of H3. People can cal me weak and chicken poop all they want, I do not have the FH for the top end, not many of the other aspects to use H3 well, so I do not use it. I tired, and on FH, it is not for me.

On the other hand, Next Level says his FH is not optimal for TT... let's grab some popcorn and have some fun.

Next Level can have a much more forceful and hard impact on contact on FH wing than Der_Echte. I personally think Next Level would make better use of the capabilities of a rubber like H3... and NL has extensive backgound history of using tacky and semi-tacky Chinese rubbers on FH in the pressure of tourneys. NL has demonstrated performance at and above his level. There is enough empirical evidence to say NL can use a rubber like H3 WAY better than Der_Echte.

Another pooint NL makes is that looks are not everything in performance in utilizing equipment to go along with what a player does. (Well, I perceive he prety much said that) That is an outstanding point and I support that. NL says he has used both tack and non-tacky rubbers. If you look at his toruney results, then look at what equipment he was using (and how often he changed it !!!) I bet you some serious quantities of cheeze-its that NL has high performance using either and that what he says about himself is true.

NL's point about freedom of choice, when he discussed that some players just like to use what they like... That is damn America right there, freedom of choice over what other others think. FULLY SUPPORT.

Yuor point about using a SOFTER rubber (about a pro going that way) is valid as well. Personally, I doscovered it is better for myself to go that direction right now and damn what mainstrean coaches think about it.

Going back to NL's first sentence... that his FH is not optimal for TT...

That makes me much on popcorn and laugh my azz off. NL's base FH is better in many ways than my FH. All things are about contect in objective and level where the player operates. NL has shown his FH works at every level he has competed at. Personally, I would believe he could use that same FH at 1-1.5 levels higher and still succeed.

Personally, even if I trained the rest of my life, I do not believe I would exceed 1.5 levels above NL's recent high play level.

NextLevel · Jul 29, 2020

Der_Echte said:
You bring up good points. Your main point being that people's stroke does not have to be "Optimal" in order to use cetain equipment.

I will fully support such a statement and way of thinking.

MY point(s), which I stand by, is that...

1) The Japanese lady's FH is not a FH that would be able to utilize the top end properties of that rubber.
2) The Japanese lady CLEARLY has enough knowledge and ability to be able to articulate this or that about a H3 or any rubber. (Her lack of ability to bang impact the ball is irrelevant to her clear ability to articulate a rubber's proerties)

I have said it over and over about myself. My FH is nowhere near able to use the top end proterties of H3. People can cal me weak and chicken poop all they want, I do not have the FH for the top end, not many of the other aspects to use H3 well, so I do not use it. I tired, and on FH, it is not for me.

On the other hand, Next Level says his FH is not optimal for TT... let's grab some popcorn and have some fun.

Next Level can have a much more forceful and hard impact on contact on FH wing than Der_Echte. I personally think Next Level would make better use of the capabilities of a rubber like H3... and NL has extensive backgound history of using tacky and semi-tacky Chinese rubbers on FH in the pressure of tourneys. NL has demonstrated performance at and above his level. There is enough empirical evidence to say NL can use a rubber like H3 WAY better than Der_Echte.

Another pooint NL makes is that looks are not everything in performance in utilizing equipment to go along with what a player does. (Well, I perceive he prety much said that) That is an outstanding point and I support that. NL says he has used both tack and non-tacky rubbers. If you look at his toruney results, then look at what equipment he was using (and how often he changed it !!!) I bet you some serious quantities of cheeze-its that NL has high performance using either and that what he says about himself is true.

NL's point about freedom of choice, when he discussed that some players just like to use what they like... That is damn America right there, freedom of choice over what other others think. FULLY SUPPORT.

Yuor point about using a SOFTER rubber (about a pro going that way) is valid as well. Personally, I doscovered it is better for myself to go that direction right now and damn what mainstrean coaches think about it.

Going back to NL's first sentence... that his FH is not optimal for TT...

That makes me much on popcorn and laugh my azz off. NL's base FH is better in many ways than my FH. All things are about contect in objective and level where the player operates. NL has shown his FH works at every level he has competed at. Personally, I would believe he could use that same FH at 1-1.5 levels higher and still succeed.

Personally, even if I trained the rest of my life, I do not believe I would exceed 1.5 levels above NL's recent high play level.

Almost no one's forehand can consistently utilize the top end properties of a Chinese scale 40=+ degree sponge rubber, DerEchte, and in fact, that is why some of the players who use it use it. Actually, she is banging and spinning the ball, that is not what her critics are accusing her of not being able to do, they just have this misconception of what Chinese rubber does based on how they think it should be used. In general, I am not a fan of aspects of her technique, but the funny thing is that on many shots, I swing *exactly* the same way (in other words, I am not a fan of aspects of my technique either, but I can use Chinese rubber too). I suspect if we had a sex change in the video, people might point out the flaws in the technique, but no one would go beyond that and mention the sex of the player or believe for some weird reason that relatively high level play is affected seriously by rubber quality, especially in the context of a review. Remember, this is what got me started:

bobpuls said:
sorry but her forehand is to weak and not ideal style for this type of rubbers typical woman forehand more suited for euro jap rubbers...

Konrad Bak · Jul 29, 2020

deleted

zyu81 · Jul 29, 2020

Konrad Bak said:
thanks for info .

Is there some point you are trying to make?

Der_Echte · Jul 30, 2020

So, look back on Bob's qustion of not knowing the level of the opponent... I would need to look at her play more myself to know... without looking too closely, she could be way over 2200 usatt level. She might even play 2500 level with such a "weak" FH if her other aspects are well enough.

There is a dude in CA who uses H3 on FH (like a lot of the pro trianied Chinese kids do - coaches orders...) who has been 2200+ usatt level for decades... He has the Fh stroke to use H3, even if it is gunna make it real bad on his shoulder... If this Japanese lady play vs my friend, I think he would lose. It may be close, or it might even be real bad.

Even if this Japanese lady wasn't but 2100 USATT, and even if she would be a terrible fit for H3 on her FH, she would very likely be knowing enough about equipemnt to confidently and accurately discuss it.

I have another friend, who at the time was 2300 USATT and would win Div 1 city Korean tourneys... he ABSOLUTELY did NOT have the kind of offensive FH for this rubber to get even 1/10 the potential out of it... yet, with this H3, he had great touch for making sidespin and controlling the ball of the opponent... his game thrived on it... and he could do it with H3 and a wood blade (W7 it was I think) The main shots he did, H3 really made it easy for him. Suitablitity is huge reason to use a certain rubber.

But what the heck, as NL has advocated... freedom of choice. A good thing.

Der_Echte · Jul 30, 2020

zeio said:
...I'm more impressed by her English. From her interview with SousPeak, she started learning English seriously in 2017 Her TOEIC score went from 400 to 875 after returning from overseas...

That is DAMN IMPRESSIVE.

Getting to a point to function professionally in any language takes time, dedication, and a lot of effort, no matter how smart one may be.

Getting to a point to make vids in front of the world, even more impressive.

I am not talking about somne dman test scores for a paper tiger (as much as that would wow a uni admin)... I am talking about learning how to FUNCTION and function under pressure... and she functions well and instinctively, a sure sign of her work and success there.

EDIT, so many American go oversees and demand everything in English... TOO CHICKEN to try and fail and keep trying. Well, great majority that way, not everyone. So to Americans, that should be even more of an accomplishment... but many Americans would never feel that way. Many will ridicule some foreigner for even the slightest deviation of pronunciation or whatever.

Konrad Bak · Jul 30, 2020

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review and comparison; bluesponge hurricane 3 vs dignics 09c vs 37 degree hurricane 3

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