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    1. Top | #101
      UpSideDownCarl is online now
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      What is my USA ranking now?

      The truth is, most of us do something that is against the service rules until it is pointed out and we do the work to correct it. Which is why I was pretty confident I could take a quick look at MOG’s serves and find something.

      So, been there done that. It just is worth knowing because, it is a bit problematic to have illegal serves and complain about someone else’s.

      And when you just do the work and learn how to return those serves, you stop caring how your opponent serves. Easier said than done. But it is worth improving receive of serve. I know for sure I need to improve in that area too.


      Sent from my NSA SpyPhone from Sector 13D-SR13Z74 Sub Level 29X Fort Meade, Maryland
      Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 08-06-2020 at 05:32 PM.
      Spin Everything.

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    3. Top | #102
      Der_Echte is online now
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      Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl
      I gave you a futon roll up mattress. But when you stayed at my mom’s I think you may have slept in my childhood loft bed.

      Man, when you stayed with her you hammed it up so much she is still looking forward to your next visit.

      We will have to get NextLevel to come too. He can stay with me and my evil offspring and you can make breakfast for my mom again. Hahahahaha. I will get as many from the NYC crew as I can. 42&backpains, OSPH, POHolic, Smash_Fan, Matt M who doesn’t have a handle on TTD (probably has one on MyTT), Edmund S, AS.

      JCL may want to join and bring some of the guys he runs with. They would teach all of us a good lesson.


      Sent from my NSA SpyPhone from Sector 13D-SR13Z74 Sub Level 29X Fort Meade, Maryland
      Yes, the "Mat" was a comfortable futon...there was access to a abthroom with actual hot and cold running water, there was at least one electric outlet available, and a mobile charging station... and a friend who is just like me, want to stay up nearly all night being friends and goof off on the forums... and plot LULZ missions.

      You cannot ask for any more accomomdations than that.

      As for Carl's mother, it is unfortunate Carl's dad passed away. I was conveniently very inclined by my nature to be considerate of older people and I like to talk a lot. I think your mother liked that a lot and maybe she liked the ride in the Audi to the market while you were trying to work and earn money. Older people really need people to talk to them and pay attention... interact. It is a way that is more valuable than money IMO.

      As for the accomodations at mom's place Carl mentioned, there was a custom built wooden loft bed, Carl had me sleep on the top part the first night to give me a feel of what his dad did for him earlier in life.
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    5. Top | #103
      UpSideDownCarl is online now
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      In the photo Ma Long has his forearm just lightly resting on the table but angled back so his hand is off the back of the table.

      Doing that your hand cannot go below the table. And the ball will always be behind the white line at the back end of the table as long as you set your arm correctly.

      It also has an added benefit. It lets you pause for a moment completely still before you toss which is also my understanding of the rule about presenting the ball. Another benefit: it insures you start with your body nice and low.

      This would not work for a BH serve. But it does work for FH serves. At least if you are serving from the BH corner.

      Smash_Fan saw something in how I was not pausing before serving or getting low enough and got me to start doing this. It definitely helped my serve improve.


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    7. Top | #104
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      Quote Originally Posted by Der_Echte View Post
      Yes, the "Mat" was a comfortable futon...there was access to a abthroom with actual hot and cold running water, there was at least one electric outlet available, and a mobile charging station... and a friend who is just like me, want to stay up nearly all night being friends and goof off on the forums... and plot LULZ missions.

      You cannot ask for any more accomomdations than that.

      As for Carl's mother, it is unfortunate Carl's dad passed away. I was conveniently very inclined by my nature to be considerate of older people and I like to talk a lot. I think your mother liked that a lot and maybe she liked the ride in the Audi to the market while you were trying to work and earn money. Older people really need people to talk to them and pay attention... interact. It is a way that is more valuable than money IMO.

      As for the accomodations at mom's place Carl mentioned, there was a custom built wooden loft bed, Carl had me sleep on the top part the first night to give me a feel of what his dad did for him earlier in life.
      I forgot you drove her shopping. No wonder she still asks about you. Hahahaha.


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    8. Top | #105
      UpSideDownCarl is online now
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      What is my USA ranking now?

      Quote Originally Posted by IB66 View Post
      I can’t see anything wrong with these serves, MOG is actually using an invisible ball, and you know it!!!! Your just jealous that he has that particular type of equipment that you are searching for in the ‘NEED EQUIPMENT HELP ‘ thread
      Exactly right! Hahahahaha.

      I want that special ball that goes faster and spins more for me and goes slower and spins less for my opponents. But an invisible ball might work for me as well.


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      Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 08-06-2020 at 06:47 PM.

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    10. Top | #106
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      Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl View Post
      Exactly right! Hahahahaha.

      I want that special ball that goes faster and spins more for me and goes slower and spins less for my opponents. But an invisible ball might work for me as well.



      Sent from my NSA SpyPhone from Sector 13D-SR13Z74 Sub Level 29X Fort Meade, Maryland
      obviously the owner can see the ball at all times and make the ball visible at will to the opponent, usually just as it goes past them!!!!!

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      UpSideDownCarl (08-06-2020)

    12. Top | #107
      Tinykin is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by zyu81 View Post
      That's what I figured, seeing as you receive such a negative response from so many people.
      Keep in mind there is also not a lot of love for umpires amongst the player base......................
      Genuine question, what is your experience that causes you to come to that conclusion?

      My experience here in the UK is that players are very happy when there's an official umpire at their table.
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    14. Top | #108
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tinykin View Post
      Genuine question, what is your experience that causes you to come to that conclusion?

      My experience here in the UK is that players are very happy when there's an official umpire at their table.
      Not sure about the UK, but in many places, umpiring is often done by extremely elderly people who can no longer play, or fans of the game who don't play and never have. This leads to a lot of calls that are done against the spirit of the game even if it's strictly by the rule-book, which players don't appreciate, or with the elderly crowd it leads to a lot of situations where they were unable to keep up with the high speed and missed a critical situation that required their intervention because they are using the umpire's chair as a front row spectator seat and falling asleep at the wheel.

      I think part of the problem is that a lot of rules that get called go against the spirit of the game as well, so umpires are subject to the ire of players who feel that the umpire's involvement is interfering with their ability to play normally.

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    16. Top | #109
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      Quote Originally Posted by MOG View Post
      Can you give some examples of umpires applying rules that go against the spirit of the game. I do not understand what you are trying to say!
      Usually service related, such as borderline service calls that are not affecting anything, I have seen or heard of many situations in which even the receiver at a certain point felt it was ridiculous. Umpires getting caught with their head in the sand on controversial edge calls or net services. I understand umpiring is a thankless job, but just saying how it is..

      The worst such example maybe in history:




      Another most memorable one...Japan likely had a world title stolen from them on a very controversial net serve call (40:58).



      Another example from the recent US Olympic Women's trial, which likely cost one contender an Olympic berth:


      And now things got nasty. At 3-3, Huijing served to Amy's backhand. It appeared to hit the net, and then hit the edge as Amy lunged for it. So, it's a let, right? But neither umpire saw it, and Huijing said she didn't see it hit the net. Amy looked frustrated as she was sure it hit the net, as did most spectators. Jumping ahead, we checked the video after the match, and it clearly hit the net, and so should have been a let serve. Now let's not impeach the umpires - they are volunteers and it's easy to miss these things - but the score was now 3-4, and there was now a very heated argument between the players, the coaches, the umpires, and the referee (Joe Yick). But the point stood. Amy scored the next two in a row to go up 5-4, but then lost the next five, and so lost the match, 12,5,-6,8,-11,-6,7.


      I promise you players don't forget these things, heck in the high stakes examples listed it could even haunt them for a long time.
      Last edited by zyu81; 08-06-2020 at 09:27 PM.

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    18. Top | #110
      Tinykin is offline
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      Unfortunately, the high number of old umpires is a fact of life as basically younger people don't want the hassle (plus don't have the time) of performing any role of TT official.

      Also umpires are volunteers. Volunteers are fairly rare in any part of life and they usually end up in at least 4 or 5 different spheres of volunteering. For TT, people who are umpires are usually part of organising committees for tournaments, leagues, clubs, coaches etc.

      Example, I don't know MOG very well. However, I do know that he's a school teacher (I think) and organises/masterminds several really good tournaments each year. These tournaments would not be happening if it wasn't for him. Plus he's involved in other community projects and affairs outside of TT.

      One big point of disagreement, it is not a thankless task being an umpire. Yes players can get highly strung at times, but, in my experience, they are overall very grateful that we, the officials, are there.
      Last edited by Tinykin; 08-06-2020 at 09:44 PM.

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    20. Top | #111
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tinykin View Post
      Unfortunately, the high number of old umpires is a fact of life as basically younger people don't want the hassle (plus don't have the time) of performing any role of TT official.

      Also umpires are volunteers. Volunteers are fairly rare in any part of life and they usually end up in at least 4 or 5 different spheres of volunteering. For TT, people who are umpires are usually part of organising committees for tournaments, leagues, clubs, coaches etc.

      Example, I don't know MOG very well. However, I do know that he's a school teacher (I think) and organises/masterminds several really good tournaments each year. These tournaments would not be happening if it wasn't for him. Plus he's involved in other community projects and affairs outside of TT.

      One big point of disagreement, it is not a thankless task being an umpire. Yes players can get highly strung at times, but, in my experience, they are overall very grateful that we, the officials, are there.
      I understand they are volunteers and older, as it's inevitable. I'm not saying it's right that there is a level of disdain among the playerbase for them. But it does happen. Especially when for some players there is so much on the line that can be interfered with as you see in my post above.

      But I do think it is commendable that people step up and try to umpire and run events like MOG does.

    21. Top | #112
      Der_Echte is online now
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      About every year 1.52 times on average, (Like that stat I pulled out of my arse?) on the forums, I make a writing about umpires - how in a pro match, the umpire is supposed to be performing a professional job, but is mostly paid less than minimum wage McDonald's worker who was flown and housed to the worksite.

      If TT does not pay a professional to do a professional job, then TT is gunna get what it gets.

      At the amateur level, all this varies, and except for the huge tourneys, in USA, there are no umpires. Players have to figure out how to get along. So do and some don't. Especially the illegal servers who have served all their lives and do not care what ITTF says.

      The few USA tourneys that have umpires, they are 99% totally a volunteer, myself included.

      Why would Der_Echte volunteer to umpire an Open final or U2400 final for ZERO money? It is because I respect to entertainment and order of a professional umpired match and professional presentation.

      I believe that the USA amateur crowd who works their way to a decent top level are getting ZERO respect in many cases. I do my best to bring that respect through a professionaly managed umpire performance that will bring a sense of official-ness and important-ness to the match like it was the olympics... even if it is an unimportant city tourney.

      Promptly performing the right hand signals sharply, projecting the voice in a loud and clear manner, announcing the players and the importance of the match before it starts with a pro introduction, standing in a disciplined professional position with bearing, accurately and promptly calling out the score, presenting the score to the crowd, Announcing the score after each point clearly, giving the right transitional hand signals, crisply flipping the scoreboard each point on time, keeping on top of the match and paying attention...

      ... these are the kinds of things even amateur players deserve and I feel I owe it to TT to provide that where I can knowing there will not be a paid professional official to do that.

      Now in other countries, it varies, and some places have an umpire (another plater or spectator who is essentially a scare keeper) EVERY match, even if it is in the local TT club. Korea is a country that is like that.

    22. Top | #113
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      Quote Originally Posted by zyu81 View Post
      I understand they are volunteers and older, as it's inevitable. I'm not saying it's right that there is a level of disdain among the playerbase for them. But it does happen. Especially when for some players there is so much on the line that can be interfered with as you see in my post above.

      But I do think it is commendable that people step up and try to umpire and run events like MOG does.
      Match officials in any sport at times get a lot of flack deservedly or not.
      In TT, sure, youngsters will say and do all sorts of things not nice to those in authority. Same thing in schools and how pupils think of their teachers. But it is all part of growing up and becoming more mature.

    23. Top | #114
      Tinykin is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Der_Echte View Post
      About every year 1.52 times on average, (Like that stat I pulled out of my arse?) on the forums, I make a writing about umpires - how in a pro match, the umpire is supposed to be performing a professional job, but is mostly paid less than minimum wage McDonald's worker who was flown and housed to the worksite.

      If TT does not pay a professional to do a professional job, then TT is gunna get what it gets.

      At the amateur level, all this varies, and except for the huge tourneys, in USA, there are no umpires. Players have to figure out how to get along. So do and some don't. Especially the illegal servers who have served all their lives and do not care what ITTF says.

      The few USA tourneys that have umpires, they are 99% totally a volunteer, myself included.

      Why would Der_Echte volunteer to umpire an Open final or U2400 final for ZERO money? It is because I respect to entertainment and order of a professional umpired match and professional presentation.

      I believe that the USA amateur crowd who works their way to a decent top level are getting ZERO respect in many cases. I do my best to bring that respect through a professionaly managed umpire performance that will bring a sense of official-ness and important-ness to the match like it was the olympics... even if it is an unimportant city tourney.

      Promptly performing the right hand signals sharply, projecting the voice in a loud and clear manner, announcing the players and the importance of the match before it starts with a pro introduction, standing in a disciplined professional position with bearing, accurately and promptly calling out the score, presenting the score to the crowd, Announcing the score after each point clearly, giving the right transitional hand signals, crisply flipping the scoreboard each point on time, keeping on top of the match and paying attention...

      ... these are the kinds of things even amateur players deserve and I feel I owe it to TT to provide that where I can knowing there will not be a paid professional official to do that.

      Now in other countries, it varies, and some places have an umpire (another plater or spectator who is essentially a scare keeper) EVERY match, even if it is in the local TT club. Korea is a country that is like that.
      As I said before, match officials are volunteers. They are not paid. Yes their expenses are covered if they come from far.
      In fact, the umpires pay their own fares when traveling to international tournaments. ITTF only takes over when they have landed in the country.

    24. Top | #115
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tinykin View Post
      Match officials in any sport at times get a lot of flack deservedly or not.
      In TT, sure, youngsters will say and do all sorts of things not nice to those in authority. Same thing in schools and how pupils think of their teachers. But it is all part of growing up and becoming more mature.
      In USA, even the horrible CHO!! Monsters have a very high rate of being nice to umpires... it is the grown adults who seem to be the trouble makers...

      ... or sometimes the PARENTS of said CHO !!! Monsters™

    25. Top | #116
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tinykin View Post
      Unfortunately, the high number of old umpires is a fact of life as basically younger people don't want the hassle (plus don't have the time) of performing any role of TT official.

      Also umpires are volunteers. Volunteers are fairly rare in any part of life and they usually end up in at least 4 or 5 different spheres of volunteering. For TT, people who are umpires are usually part of organising committees for tournaments, leagues, clubs, coaches etc.

      Example, I don't know MOG very well. However, I do know that he's a school teacher (I think) and organises/masterminds several really good tournaments each year. These tournaments would not be happening if it wasn't for him. Plus he's involved in other community projects and affairs outside of TT.

      One big point of disagreement, it is not a thankless task being an umpire. Yes players can get highly strung at times, but, in my experience, they are overall very grateful that we, the officials, are there.
      You don't know him very well eh?

    26. Top | #117
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      Quote Originally Posted by lasta View Post
      You don't know him very well eh?
      [Stereotype function on] Eh? - you must be Canadian [/Stereotype function off]

      To be more precise, I have met him a couple of times at his tournaments and we have communicated by email. Most of what I know about MOG is from what I see from his postings here on TTD and on facebook.
      Give me another couple years and I will probably know him much better
      Last edited by Tinykin; 08-07-2020 at 12:07 PM.

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    28. Top | #118
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tinykin View Post
      [Stereotype function on] Eh? - you must be Canadian [/Stereotype function off]

      To be more precise, I have met him a couple of times at his tournaments and we have communicated by email. Most of what I know about MOG is from what I see from his postings here on TTD and on facebook.
      Give me another couple years and I will probably know him much better
      I don't recommend that.

      Quick internet search on the miserable old git yields: corruption, embezzlement, dissent, sex scandal, and child abuse.

      https://kingstonuniversityscandal.wo...organ-wortham/

      https://metro.co.uk/2016/03/21/dads-...-time-5765805/
      Last edited by lasta; 08-07-2020 at 01:21 PM.

    29. Top | #119
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      lol, we uptight about serves legally or not again? What about this. Unless the person who is blatantly doing illegal serves (E.g throwing the ball right into the paddle like this guy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OboxMGg9Pjc) then just deal with it. Unless you are a person that will NEVER EVER go over the speed limit on any road when driving. Let's stick this notion of legal serves up the bum and move on shall we? The hypocrisy.

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