What is my USA ranking now?

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Hi EJ,

Not to beat down your Korean opponent.. by now everyone knows I have not a small affinity with that country... but Mr Kim, the opponent in your first vid, in Korea, he would be Hope Division. Club coach would not let this kind of player enter Div 5 of a city tourney. Hope Div is well under 1000 USATT.

Ironically, I have been looking real hard at the neighborhood where your opponet plays in his club. That area looks attractive.

Nice to hear Mom and hopfully OMA in good ole Deutschland are kicking it. By now the forum knows I have much more than a small affinity for Germany too.
 
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But that's two kids = hence they have more conventional technique and since they are both playing a standard game (and are probably familiar with each other's game) it makes for a much more open game.

Also, this is the final of the U1800 = these two players are probably playing better than their rating?
 
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piligrim said:

Hi Pilgrim,

I was actually at this tourney in Walnut Creek... the 4 star. I think it was absolutely one of my best tourney performances ever, even if I lost 7 ratings points and did not have huge wins over way higher opponents. I simply dug down and won close matches vs players in 2000s class and proved I belonged... I wasn't sure from previous tourney with so little sample size.

These Bay Area kids who get pro style training will play an advanced game just as they have been trained... you will not see east coast or Dallas 1700 class play this way. Either of those lads in your vid would have a 90-100 percent win ratio vs the TX 1700 crowd. You do not see east coast 1700 or TX 1700 adults make so many attacks in a row or at that quality. The serving is sloppy, but they just want those fast rallies and those serves do it.
 
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Ultimately, given the importance of competitive attitude, spin reading and anticipation in table tennis, you can't know someone's rating unless you know how they perform against a bunch if people with a wide band of ratings. If we knew what MOG's national rank was and players relative to him, that would give a better rating estimate than anything you would get by analyzing video.
 
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Disclaimer, I am not really too familiar with the rating estimations, at least in the lower to middle range levels, say <2000 US, but if I had to guess, some of the guesses in this thread are criminally low...

Isn't the whole California vs. non-California rating thing really more of a question of if you come from an area with a lot of rising junior players, versus not? Therefore a quickly improving player in California, Texas, New York, Atlanta which all have strong programs would largely be the same? I have played in many regions (non-tournament) and did not notice a major difference but I saw it mentioned that this phenomenon levels off as players get to higher levels because progress slows down?
 
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Disclaimer, I am not really too familiar with the rating estimations, at least in the lower to middle range levels, say <2000 US, but if I had to guess, some of the guesses in this thread are criminally low...

Isn't the whole California vs. non-California rating thing really more of a question of if you come from an area with a lot of rising junior players, versus not? Therefore a quickly improving player in California, Texas, New York, Atlanta which all have strong programs would largely be the same? I have played in many regions (non-tournament) and did not notice a major difference but I saw it mentioned that this phenomenon levels off as players get to higher levels because progress slows down?

Don't try to rationally argue this with Californians. They will always believe their lying eyes over the hard evidence of match result samples.
 
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Disclaimer, I am not really too familiar with the rating estimations, at least in the lower to middle range levels, say <2000 US, but if I had to guess, some of the guesses in this thread are criminally low...

Yeah, I really do not understand why the opponent in the first match is being rated as low as 700 (maybe I missed the joke?). Yes, he was down 0 - 8 in the first set but surely it is clear that he can play much better than that.
 
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I am 60 and made it from not having played since 1981 and restarted in March 2019 to USATT 1300 after the US Open, but I practiced 2-4 hours/day 6 days/week for maybe 6 months (kids are out of the house and my employer has 3 tables and a ball machine in the gym which sadly is closed right now). I lost 30 lbs (my primary motivation was weight loss while having fun) during that time. I also had a coach with 1hr/week.
I found that I really have to use the machine to stabilize the short pips technique. I had read/watched everything on short pips. I wanted to copy Mima Ito, my strategy was that I am too old to be the next Ma Long, and Mima Ito beats physically stronger / taller players. I initially played with a 2mm Yasaka Rakza PO (spinny short pips, horizontal alignment) but now I am finding that I should have copied exact and used the Nittaku Moristo SP (also 2mm, vertical alignment) which is less spinny / more forgiving. The blade does matter, I started with a harder top wood (walnut, etc.) but now I am finding that limba suits me better (also for a backhand short pips player the forehand topspin and footwork have to be top notch). I currently use the Sanwei Fextra blade ($35 at Megaspin, $20 at princett) and it is working out great, due to the 2 limba top layers it has a really good touch, and due to the 3 ayous layers it has sufficient speed when staying at the table (I could even chop with it).
So the blade is a compromise between f/h top spin (want soft wood) and b/h punch (want harder wood), I am finding that the backhand is OK with the softer top wood blade I am using.
I am taking lessons again since June 1st and one key point my coach made was that I need to know what I want to do with the backhand (stand lower, fix my footwork and forehand). Kill quickly, or just control and outplace? So this is what I am working on right now. Also my coach is trying to get me to the top spin technique aptly shown by the youngsters in the video above, e.g. Power from the Ground, In Pai (引拍), etc. (See Emrat Thich videos).

I am not speculating on whether or not I would beat the much younger players, the last time I encountered one he couldn't handle the short pips. So one advantage you have with pips is that people who aren't used to them are at a disadvantage. Also I now twiddle at least for serving which throws in another unknown for the opponent. People usually do that to be able to serve with the inverted rubber (e.g. Mattias Falck, Hou Yinchao) but I found that many players misjudge if I serve with the same movement using the short pips. Also see YangYang's latest video about short pips at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkAtYs6gwig, very informative.

So, good times if we can avoid Covid-19. Wear masks and socially distance if you can...
 
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I am 60 and made it from not having played since 1981 and restarted in March 2019 to USATT 1300 after the US Open, but I practiced 2-4 hours/day 6 days/week for maybe 6 months (kids are out of the house and my employer has 3 tables and a ball machine in the gym which sadly is closed right now). I lost 30 lbs (my primary motivation was weight loss while having fun) during that time. I also had a coach with 1hr/week.
I found that I really have to use the machine to stabilize the short pips technique. I had read/watched everything on short pips. I wanted to copy Mima Ito, my strategy was that I am too old to be the next Ma Long, and Mima Ito beats physically stronger / taller players. I initially played with a 2mm Yasaka Rakza PO (spinny short pips, horizontal alignment) but now I am finding that I should have copied exact and used the Nittaku Moristo SP (also 2mm, vertical alignment) which is less spinny / more forgiving. The blade does matter, I started with a harder top wood (walnut, etc.) but now I am finding that limba suits me better (also for a backhand short pips player the forehand topspin and footwork have to be top notch). I currently use the Sanwei Fextra blade ($35 at Megaspin, $20 at princett) and it is working out great, due to the 2 limba top layers it has a really good touch, and due to the 3 ayous layers it has sufficient speed when staying at the table (I could even chop with it).
So the blade is a compromise between f/h top spin (want soft wood) and b/h punch (want harder wood), I am finding that the backhand is OK with the softer top wood blade I am using.
I am taking lessons again since June 1st and one key point my coach made was that I need to know what I want to do with the backhand (stand lower, fix my footwork and forehand). Kill quickly, or just control and outplace? So this is what I am working on right now. Also my coach is trying to get me to the top spin technique aptly shown by the youngsters in the video above, e.g. Power from the Ground, In Pai (引拍), etc. (See Emrat Thich videos).

I am not speculating on whether or not I would beat the much younger players, the last time I encountered one he couldn't handle the short pips. So one advantage you have with pips is that people who aren't used to them are at a disadvantage. Also I now twiddle at least for serving which throws in another unknown for the opponent. People usually do that to be able to serve with the inverted rubber (e.g. Mattias Falck, Hou Yinchao) but I found that many players misjudge if I serve with the same movement using the short pips. Also see YangYang's latest video about short pips at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkAtYs6gwig, very informative.

So, good times if we can avoid Covid-19. Wear masks and socially distance if you can...

With all due respect, I think as a 1200 player you need not worry at all about which types of wood make up the plies of your blade, and worry not too much about things like power from the ground etc. when your game appears to be comprised of a lot of pushing and the upper body/arm fundamentals are not totally grounded yet. My reaction to this post was that you have been reading the internet way too much.

I also think if you played a California 1200 adult player who's level has stabilized, there would not be a major difference. A rapidly improving player from California, or anywhere else in the country, not so much.
 
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You are probably correct but being on top of the theory makes it more interesting for me and I think going to the bottom is part of my personality (it does has its advantages, I've been wearing a mask when the CDC said it isn't necessary, as the Korean and German experts already had published some facts). I let my coach take care of what to work on, he did bring up power from the ground and in pai. I also agree on the mature player vs. rapidly improving player difference, I've encountered some of the latter from San Antonio at the US Open resulting in an interesting but short game.

Also, if anyone needs a Nittaku Moristo SP, it's on sale at https://www.tabletennis11.com/other_eng/special-offers. They ship with DHL in a week or so.
 
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MOG (after a couple pints) said:
I think these two lads will be much better than me in a year or two. I do not think either of them would beat me 3-0. I think I might beat them both, depends on how they receive my bh pips and fh shots with more spin than either of them are using. I often beat juniors when I play them unless they are much stronger than this.

I could be wrong but I don't think so.

Well MOG, there is ONE way find out !!

Since Bay Area is SO DAMN EXPENSIVE... why not come over to Sacramento and time it with the 4x a year tourney? That tourney gets a good share of these junior kids from Bay Area. You are sure to face one or three of them.

What is it like to face one of theese kids? On vid, their lops do not look like much (and they are not so spinny) but in real life, you would be damn surprised to see how much it pressures you to be atacked first RELENTLESSLY time and time again without letup if you do not attack first. BTW, in the para below, his way overbearing parent was courtside. (and looked to read the kid the RIOT ACT if he did not deliver the goods vs this way over-fat looking mid 50s dude - me)

A recent Sac tounrey I did, I faced one of these pro trained kids, maybe in his second year of training. He was rated right around 1700, I was at the time maybe mid 1900s Cali rated. This was the younger brother of a young kid who had already busted 2000 rating or was real close. The loop of this younger brother wouldn't impress you by overpowering, but in real life, it would be hard to time, so you block... and these kids are pro trained to GO AFTER these blocked balls and HIT. You would think an 8-10 yr old wouldn't be able to hit hard, but limbs are limbs and joints are joints, and the ball is real light and if the timing is right, that ball gunna fly (without much sin, but by you or through you anyway).

The times I declined to attack... this kid did NOT need a written invitation via Einladungskart delivered by courier... kid simply went off on me when I didn't attack. So... I served and got errors... if the ball came back, I rambo looped or spun heavy... still, kid had enough quality so that I wasn't successful every attack. If he served long, I would push fast deep to his BH for a weak BH hit or topspin... or BH loop heavy. I think the average score was 11-9 or 11-8 each game... score was closer than it SHOULD have been, but it was a very accurate representation of what happened. I looked in control and WAS in control, but if 1 or 2 points did not go my way, he could have won.

With this type, you do your best to discourage him... how/when does that happen? You could hit 20 winners and the kid is still gunna attack you if the chance is even close to being their. These kids will not get discouraged and give up, you will work for it to the end. The only time they get discouraged is when they lose the match... and have to face big bad dad to get chewed out about losing to a fat, middle-aged overweight, looks like canot move at all, no-skills looking dude...

MOG, you face west coast or east coast pro trained kids like this... this is what you gunna face. You THINK you should overpower these kids (and you CAN - after all, you agrown adult), but increadible to you, the chances to do so look clear cut, but when it is time to execute, you are landing less of your shots... (because their returns, blocks and counters have more quality than you think they do)... then you get discouraged and more careful... which PLAYS INTO THEIR HANDS as they attack, attack, and attack some more... and now theyy see the ball land in... and they start up the CHO !!! machine... and you stuck there saying DAMN, I gunna get the kid... then he does it AGAIN> CHO !!!! In your face dude.

If YOU were to CHO !!! like that after each point, spectators would think you being unfair... but guarenteed that kid gunna CHO you oputta the gym if you give them the chance.

If you got some pips and somehow, the kid does not yet have experience vs them... you might have a chance... but often, these kids will discover how to adjust (or pro coach will tell/order them) and they get you anyway.

Still, come on over to Sacramento one day and experience this... we are not to far from Lake Tahoe, Napa valley wine region, and Yosemite Natl Park... there are a LOT of excuses you can use to get here.
 
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zyu81 said:
With all due respect, I think as a 1200 player you need not worry at all about which types of wood make up the plies of your blade, and worry not too much about things like power from the ground etc. when your game appears to be comprised of a lot of pushing and the upper body/arm fundamentals are not totally grounded yet. My reaction to this post was that you have been reading the internet way too much.

I also think if you played a California 1200 adult player who's level has stabilized, there would not be a major difference. A rapidly improving player from California, or anywhere else in the country, not so much.

DAMN zyu81, you made me spit out my American made Piss-Wasser sorry excuse for a Bier all over my monitor again.

I guess it needed a cleaning for the third time in under 24 hrs... ah, better. Should not need cleaning the rest of July.

Why did I spit out the Bier? ... because even if you are right (and I believe you are), you committed utter BLASPHEMY with your statement(s). One more blasphemous than the other.

How DARE you declare on the internet your clearly so-wrong opinion that a TTR800-900 player should NOT worry about equipment at that level as if it didn't really matter at that level just yet? How dare you ???!!! WHO are you, someone who actually has experience and level???? What gives you the right to say that???!!!

And then you UPPED THE LEVEL of blasphemy by saying dude been reading hte internet too damn much !!!

[/end sarcasm, but not completely]

I so totally agree with you, but for real, part of the fun of amateur TT and part of the lasting motivation is the equipment thing. Anyone looking at what percentage of posts on TT forums are pointless discussions about certain properties of certain mainstream equipments would know right away that THIS IS WHAT AMATEUR TT PLAYERS WANT.

When players first enter the sport, yes, they are attracted to the prospect of continually improving and competing... but just like James Bond... the world is NOT ENOUGH. heck, I was kinda like this too in my early days before facts and evidence finally made their way pust my thick skull and I finally listened to them.

TTD sees me SO OFTEN mock this attitude, which is worse than a persistent STD that never goes away and always comes back for revenge.

zyu81, the internet mafia has issued warrants to "question" you. You better PM Carl for advise and make a quick bee-line for his oversee safehouse.

You are talking too much sense zyu81, doubt it is gunna be accpeted as is.

Still, one should enjoy talking about TT on foeums, a personal decided balance is the right way and zyu81 or Der_Echte or no one should be telling anyone to do something in that regard, although we can and should talk loud. Freedom of choice is supreme.
 
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MOG said:
I know none of us like losing, but if I am going to lose to someone I think I want it to be a junior that has improved a lot, as long as he/she does not cho too much!!

Regarding choing, I do not cho but if I play a kid who is choing I will give it fist pumps and 'come on' if I blast one past them. If you give it, take it!!

Good F-ing luck MOG, I wish you well. The ONLY time kid will not get on a CHO roll is when coach or over-bearing dad ORDERS kid to not do that... which is pretty rare. Not unheard of, just rare.

If YOU decide not to cho-off, you are at a psychological disadvantage. Whatever cho-ing you do then would be internal and you had better have a good imagination to stay even or ahead in that department.

These kids are trained to CHO !!!!!! even and ESPECIALLY if you even miss-hit a serve in the net !!

You blast one by kid and fist pump... kid goes back to barrier, and while retrieving ball is thinking you are WEAK!! Is THAT all you GOT dude? Kid is already ready to fight next point even before his first step tp pick up the ball. He and she KNOWS they do not win every game 11-0 and that opponent can and will make shots.
 
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If you say cho and you're not Chinese you're lame. There are plenty of acceptable words in your own language. America started the sport, not China anyways so "culturally" it still doesn't make sense. Pet peeve of mine, my bad, proceed.
 
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DAMN zyu81, you made me spit out my American made Piss-Wasser sorry excuse for a Bier all over my monitor again.

I guess it needed a cleaning for the third time in under 24 hrs... ah, better. Should not need cleaning the rest of July.

Why did I spit out the Bier? ... because even if you are right (and I believe you are), you committed utter BLASPHEMY with your statement(s). One more blasphemous than the other.

How DARE you declare on the internet your clearly so-wrong opinion that a TTR800-900 player should NOT worry about equipment at that level as if it didn't really matter at that level just yet? How dare you ???!!! WHO are you, someone who actually has experience and level???? What gives you the right to say that???!!!

And then you UPPED THE LEVEL of blasphemy by saying dude been reading hte internet too damn much !!!

[/end sarcasm, but not completely]

I so totally agree with you, but for real, part of the fun of amateur TT and part of the lasting motivation is the equipment thing. Anyone looking at what percentage of posts on TT forums are pointless discussions about certain properties of certain mainstream equipments would know right away that THIS IS WHAT AMATEUR TT PLAYERS WANT.

When players first enter the sport, yes, they are attracted to the prospect of continually improving and competing... but just like James Bond... the world is NOT ENOUGH. heck, I was kinda like this too in my early days before facts and evidence finally made their way pust my thick skull and I finally listened to them.

TTD sees me SO OFTEN mock this attitude, which is worse than a persistent STD that never goes away and always comes back for revenge.

zyu81, the internet mafia has issued warrants to "question" you. You better PM Carl for advise and make a quick bee-line for his oversee safehouse.

You are talking too much sense zyu81, doubt it is gunna be accpeted as is.

Still, one should enjoy talking about TT on foeums, a personal decided balance is the right way and zyu81 or Der_Echte or no one should be telling anyone to do something in that regard, although we can and should talk loud. Freedom of choice is supreme.

;) ;);)

No doubt talking equipment is part of the fun. Experimenting, trying things out, of course that's everybody's right so by all means. But when someone starts to talk about the type of wood of the inner plies and how that actually has tangible effects on gameplay, that is where things start to get a little ridiculous. Thinking of the pro players or very high level players I know, I'm not sure a single one of them could name the type of wood of the inner plies of their blade, hell, I'm sure few, at most, would even be able to name the outer one and if that has differences in feeling.
 
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If you say cho and you're not Chinese you're lame. There are plenty of acceptable words in your own language. America started the sport, not China anyways so "culturally" it still doesn't make sense. Pet peeve of mine, my bad, proceed.

If you eat Chinese food and you're not Chinese you're lame. There are plenty of acceptable dining choices in your own country. If you wear clothes made in China and you're not Chinese you're lame. There are plenty of acceptable textiles made in your own country.

Jokes aside, I do think it is maybe a tad bit goofy, as illogical as it is given the globalized world we live in.
 
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If you eat Chinese food and you're not Chinese you're lame. There are plenty of acceptable dining choices in your own country. If you wear clothes made in China and you're not Chinese you're lame. There are plenty of acceptable textiles made in your own country.

Jokes aside, I do think it is maybe a tad bit goofy, as illogical as it is given the globalized world we live in.


You are totally right except textiles. Its very hard to find clothes made not in China, Vietnam or India. Never seen in stores clothes made in Europe
 
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