What is my USA ranking now?

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Oh, England, you're right. Thought I remembered it as America, but maybe it's just that America was first to popularize it and play well in competitions for it, according to documentaries. There's possibly some bias there though.
 
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says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
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NextLevel said:
Don't try to rationally argue this with Californians. (Der_Echte Comment: LOVE this comment) They will always believe their lying eyes over the hard evidence of match result samples.

Der_Echte's imperical evidence personal experience...

- Came back from Korea - did an east coast tourney, came out mid 1900s rating
- Out of sport a year or so, got back in, moved to DC area got back to mid 1900s rating
- Moved to California - PROMPTLY rating went into 1700s after 3 tourneys... and I felt I was IMPROVING
- Improved over last 2 years and now mid 2000s level

Other hard evidence... in LA open, in order to qualify for lwoer events where they can dominate if prize money is there in big tourney... people drop HUNDREDS of ratings points and join up for doubles...

Dude who won U3800 doubles SMASHED his way through U2300 event for a payday... that dude plays regularly at a 2400+ level... SO MANY players in LA area do this... it is a competitive sport among the Vietnamese, the most aggregious offenders, but they are certainly not alone, so many natinalities including Americans do that deed.
 
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Der_Echte's imperical evidence personal experience...

- Came back from Korea - did an east coast tourney, came out mid 1900s rating
- Out of sport a year or so, got back in, moved to DC area got back to mid 1900s rating
- Moved to California - PROMPTLY rating went into 1700s after 3 tourneys... and I felt I was IMPROVING
- Improved over last 2 years and now mid 2000s level

Other hard evidence... in LA open, in order to qualify for lwoer events where they can dominate if prize money is there in big tourney... people drop HUNDREDS of ratings points and join up for doubles...

Dude who won U3800 doubles SMASHED his way through U2300 event for a payday... that dude plays regularly at a 2400+ level... SO MANY players in LA area do this... it is a competitive sport among the Vietnamese, the most aggregious offenders, but they are certainly not alone, so many natinalities including Americans do that deed.

Can you share his ratings history?

By the way ratings are not linear. You can improve a lot and not have it show up in ratings in any meaningful way. I think to some degree I am an example of that though my health issues are confounding factors.
 
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says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
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If I can get omnipong to show results for LA Open 2019, I would name the dude and show some rating history like you mentioned I should do for saying somethng like this. This dude is not alone by any measure. You should do a few of these LA Opnes and get teh Ringer experience. NYC famed ringes have NOTHING on the LA crowd.

Try to PM TTD member erm, my friend, who has extensive decades long experience in competition and running big tourneys. He was a former natl junior and has great touch. He knows what is what In Cali. PM him and tell him you are my friend and ask for a few more imperical examples of this.

The concept of asking for and seeing/examining evidence should be something we citizens should be demanding more of.

So many times, people speak what is almost entirely rhetoric... and almost all the time, the rhetoric and conclusions are made without any evidence asked for or given.
 
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Der_Echte's imperical evidence personal experience...

- Came back from Korea - did an east coast tourney, came out mid 1900s rating
- Out of sport a year or so, got back in, moved to DC area got back to mid 1900s rating
- Moved to California - PROMPTLY rating went into 1700s after 3 tourneys... and I felt I was IMPROVING
- Improved over last 2 years and now mid 2000s level

Other hard evidence... in LA open, in order to qualify for lwoer events where they can dominate if prize money is there in big tourney... people drop HUNDREDS of ratings points and join up for doubles...

Dude who won U3800 doubles SMASHED his way through U2300 event for a payday... that dude plays regularly at a 2400+ level... SO MANY players in LA area do this... it is a competitive sport among the Vietnamese, the most aggregious offenders, but they are certainly not alone, so many natinalities including Americans do that deed.

Without knowing specific details, it seems likely you just ran into more sandbaggers or rising juniors after getting to California and/or had a run of bad tournaments. I find it hard to believe it took two years (if you are playing tournaments consistently) that you couldn't dodge the under-rated folks and recover your points. Additionally, your initial rating after getting back from Korea could have been higher than it deserved to be - this happens when ELO ratings haven't had time to stabilize. What you think may explain all of this could have just been some of the flaws of the rating system or changes in your game that didn't reflect immediately.
 
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NextLevel said:
...You can improve a lot and not have it show up in ratings in any meaningful way...

I agree. Very often, it is simply a matter of the improvement becoming more consistent under match pressure of a tourney... that takes time... often 6 months or more to show in results, sometimes longer.

Sometimes, one just doesn't face the kind of players in a few tourneys to prove it... or you face ringer players in your division... or you face players, who for one reason or another, are simply better players vs you and not some other players same level.

Eventually, if one does enough tourneys in a lot of different venues against a lot of players, the results will show one way or another.

Next Level is very typical in this way in his results. Some improvement has shown relatively soon, some not. Then his pain can affect performance.
 
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zyu81 said:
Without knowing specific details, it seems likely you just ran into more sandbaggers or rising juniors after getting to California and/or had a run of bad tournaments. I find it hard to believe it took two years (if you are playing tournaments consistently) that you couldn't dodge the under-rated folks and recover your points. Additionally, your initial rating after getting back from Korea could have been higher than it deserved to be - this happens when ELO ratings haven't had time to stabilize. What you think may explain all of this could have just been some of the flaws of the rating system or changes in your game that didn't reflect immediately.

I believe my results on my first tourney back were true. I did a lot of matches, I think 14 or so that tourney. I did another tourney a week later in CT, and I think I did 15 or 18 matches. My rating changed by only a few points form the second tourney a week later.

In DC area, there were a few players you always run into that will win vs you at that level, but they always stay rated upper 1800s or 1900s. had to advance in ratings playing vs them in tourneys... but eventually, you break through. I had 1.5 years there and never really broke through.

In Cali, I did enough matches for the results not to be small sample size things. In Cali, some upper 1700s players are 1900s east coast level. Some 1700 can simply have a good day too. 1700 level player on east coast are nearly all very easy for a 1900 class player to handle, unless they are improving junior player... that is different situation everywhere.

I did enough toruenys to show upper 1700s or barely 1800 was my true rating for that region. I had to do a LOT of improvement to break through.

like Next level mentioned in a different area, sometimes it takes a while to improvement to show in ratings. mine sure took some time. 6 months or so later, improvement began to show in ratings.. showed almost zero improvement in two tourneys, then BANG, showed big time in 2018 LA Open... and the following toruneys showed I was a low 1900s Cali player... until LA Open 2019.. and BANG, big tourney big improvement... and the following toruenys, I finally showed I could compete and win vs established 2000s class players, some wins had to fight, some just dominated.

My improvement curve wasn't an error or random ting, it was real improvement, and like Next level mentioned, sometimes difficult to immediately show in ratings, which are supposed to reflect tourney performance. Liek any stat, more dat is better. Finally, the last tourney, Walnut Creek 4 star, a huge tourney, I showed I could beong in that class - more than enough matches vs that class to know.

Too bad USATT makes you pay money to see ratings.
 
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The only way to actually know what your USATT rating should actually be is to play about 40-200 tournaments. And somewhere in that period, your rating should actually start to reflect you overall level of play.

Everyone I have ever seen who has said they were some specific number in the USATT rating system, without having played any sanctioned USATT tournaments could not possibly have known what their actual level was.

You have to play the matches and earn the rating to actually know what your rating is. You just cannot guesstimate a rating.
 
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One more thing:

These photos are sequential in the video from the same FH shot:

Screen Shot 2020-08-02 at 9.57.48 PM.jpg

Screen Shot 2020-08-02 at 9.58.10 PM.jpg

As the elbow rises in a way it shouldn't, the racket drops and crosses way past the midline.

This should be looked at. When you do this, that followthrough that only happens on certain balls, that does not produce a quality shot.
 
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Winning sandbaggers and rising junior is part of the game. A true xyz rated players will be able to keep rising junior down and keep sandbagger from sandbagging.

E.g a true 2100 level player should fluctuate between 2050 to 2200. If a 2100 meet a 2200 sandbagger they would have a chance even if the rating difference is 100 points.
 
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Just rejoin this forum but have been actively reading the various posts. I'm a solid 2150-2250 player in NYC. To me, an accurate rating is when you had played several tournaments , playing matches with players above, same and below your rating. I had played in LA several times and my experience was a 2000-2100 player in LA seems a bit lower than those you see in NYC. But now that we have so many tournaments out there, the gap is narrower.
Right at this moment, there are many 1900-2000 players in NYC but very few players between 2100-2300. This creates a problem for these 1900-2000 players to rise above 2100 as they have to constantly compete with the same level players, winning or losing 7-8 points each time. This is what I observe.
 
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says Spin and more spin.
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Is this because I have sent the ball down his backhand at a late point in the shot though, it looks a bit like that from the picture, I often do this with a horribly nontechnical looking shot!

You were aiming at the BH corner. The shot was long. But you were off balance and the shot looked awkward and stressed to me; not relaxed or casual. I think the feet are why it happened. Your feet were not in a good position and you tried to do funny things with your legs and then adjust the rest with your arm.

You are not alone, this kind of FH where the elbow raises and the racket drops creating a flat shot, is a common stroke habit for people whose FH technique is not fully consistent.

If you were going cross court, better technique would be to aim the ball there with your body positioning and the turn of your hips, while following through so your elbow is about shoulder height and your racket is about the height of your head or forehead but forward. The shape of a stroke will depend on the ball your hitting but what you did with your arm there is not a habit you want to keep even if, in your head, you think the shot works. That technique will keep your FH from improving.

I could pull a few more of these from different spots. It doesn’t look like it is on purpose. It looks like it happens when your feet are a little out of position.
 
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Yes I think it does, but I would say that I sometimes deliberately send these down the bh late, sometimes they work, sometimes they dont. But if they are played very correctly will I not telegraph what I am doing more to the opponent, if you know what I mean.

One of the things I sometimes do well is send the player the wrong way.

One of the things I do too much is play horrible awkward shots.

I guess I should aim to get better at the disguise and cut out the awkwardness!!

A cross court can be easily disguised because your hips are open on the backswing and you turn to make your body direct the balm where you are aiming only on impact. If that rotation comes from your hips instead of from INTERNAL ROTATION of YOUR glenohumeral joint which is what causes the blade face to change trajectories in the middle of the stroke and what causes the racket path to flatten, that is just, simply, not such good technique. Better technique will always give you a better shot than you get from when you do what you did in that shot.

But you have the skills and toolkit to fix that. You only do it once in a while. I will look and see if I can find examples of that where you are going straight or to be FH side.
 
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@MOG, google greg rogers or youtube him. He is a solid 2200 that can teach u a few tricks or two. He specialize in timings and locations.
 
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Just rejoin this forum but have been actively reading the various posts. I'm a solid 2150-2250 player in NYC. To me, an accurate rating is when you had played several tournaments , playing matches with players above, same and below your rating. I had played in LA several times and my experience was a 2000-2100 player in LA seems a bit lower than those you see in NYC. But now that we have so many tournaments out there, the gap is narrower.
Right at this moment, there are many 1900-2000 players in NYC but very few players between 2100-2300. This creates a problem for these 1900-2000 players to rise above 2100 as they have to constantly compete with the same level players, winning or losing 7-8 points each time. This is what I observe.

When I was in DC area, there were a group of players, maybe a dozen or so, who were pretty much around 2000 play level, but would be rated 1850 to low 1900s... If you played in U2000 or U2100, you would need to have an extraordinary day to win vs 3 or 4 of these while you are rated low to mid 1900s... you would be sure to face several of them in those events.

Of course, as mentioned, the true rated higher player will perform under pressure in a tourney vs equal to lower level who are not solid at that level.

Still, DC area was tough for a low 1900s to get better in rating... one would pretty much need to up their play level to 2000-2050 level to win enough vs that crowd to keep the rating above 2000.

Some locales have bands of players in certain level like that.

The Bay Area just overall at the 1600-2000 level is clearly tougher than the equivilant east coast rating... at 2150 or 2200 and above, the difference is prety much not there... you would have the "normal" factors going on that would go on anywhere.

LA is a different animal. There are some 2000 level players who may be that level east coast, and some that would knock the socks of an NYC 2000 player. So many ringers who are 3 levels better, but for divisin qualification reasons, will shed points like cat ahir to form a winning U3800 doubles team or win a lower event. You have that crowd plus the improving kids crowd. So, in LA area, if you achieved a 2000 rating, and did 5-6 tourneys and still kept it, that is a serious solid 2000 level that compare well to any region.
 
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I had a great LA Open 2019 and busted through 2000 and was concerned my rating level was on the over-rated side. I did not know for sure if I belonged in hte low to mid 2000s level for Bay Area. Last 4 star tourney finally gave me enough matches vs that class of players and I performed favorably. I lost 7 points, but I feel it was one of my best tourneys ever. I had solid wins vs several of the 2000s class I needed to show me LA Open wasn't an accident.

That supports your view of needed some more data to be confident.

Now with teh Covid and so little TT... and the Sacramento Metro area only TT gym shut down for good... it is gunna be bleak here and tough to regain level and keep it. Bay area is 2.5 hrs drive away, that is a 1x per month distance at best.
 
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Scrub P can argue that a 2100 should be able to defeat a bunch or other 2100s in a tourney if dude is solid 2100 level and some 2200... but sometimes the opponent dropped more points.

Anyone remember when Z. Molla, a decades long upper 2500s+ level player, he dropped to 2300 a year or two back... imagine a 2275 player facing him in the U2350 event... wouln't be close if opponet plays his level... at that level, 200 points of level is like 4 levels. Later, Z. Molla got right back to his 2500s level.

You do not see Z. Molla with ANY history of this... but if you look at many of the players who win the U2100, U2300, and U3800 doubles... you will see some people with serious high level either drop points or stay dropped to qualify for those events in the tourneys with decent cash prises for the mid level events... it is fierce over there.

In Korea, in Div 4 national level, you are supposed to be around 1600-1900 level... yet in a huge field, where there would be 300+ players in Div 4, you could be a 2100 level player (strong city Div 1 level), yet advance only out of group and maybe 1 or two more knockout matches. A 2100 level player should be 3 levels over qualified for Natl Div 4, but the top end of that division is REDICULOUSLY STACKED top heavy. You have 30 players in a field that size over 2200 level, a dozen over 2300 level. A player 3 levels over-classifeid for the division would have next to zero realistic chances to make it to even the round of 64.

Div 3 national stacked like too. Div 2 not so much and Div 1 not so much. The "pro player" division has all the pro trained ex-kids and ex-pros or ex-elite players... they can only compete in that division... and even pros have many levels of seperation in level.
 
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This is another thing to note:

This is three different serves:

Screen Shot 2020-08-05 at 9.10.19 AM.jpg

Screen Shot 2020-08-05 at 9.15.11 AM.jpg

Screen Shot 2020-08-05 at 9.16.51 AM.jpg

This is three different serves. I did not see this on the FH serves. But on the BH at least 50% of them, this happens to some extent. These three, your hand is so far below the table that you can see your elbow crease and a little of the forearm.

Those are illegal serves. It is not legal to take the ball below the playing surface and out of view. Worth knowing and easy to fix.
 
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