What is my USA ranking now?

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You guys who have the rules handy, does the ball have to be presented in the open palm and be still for a moment when presented before tossing? :)

I noticed that as well. MOG does not have his hand stationary before serving in almost any of his serves, meaning almost all his serves are illegal.

@MOG - that is good. I would worry more about those things. For your level, making better choices about WHICH return to make can help a lot more than worrying about quality, placement, etc. Why the new custom blade? Thought you said you were a reformed EJ the other day...
 
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Surely the point is I did some illegal serves without realising it, it was pointed out and I corrected it.

Just because I once served illegally doe s not mean I cant continue to spread the good word of serving legally.

You mean that you served illegally a lot in the past (not just once - I gotta get the interpretation right) and now that you are reformed, you want people to follow your lead?

You played people who may have served illegally while serving illegally and got sanctimonious because you were bothered by their illegal serves while they decided not to be bothered by yours.

I think that having everyone serve legally is a lofty goal but the serving rules were not written in the spirit of encouraging players to serve the way they have usually served as it outlaws almost immediately the most popular serve in the sport - the traditional forehand side-on pendulum serve. You managed to serve a backhand serve illegally - that is not an easy feat though you picked one of the easiest ways to do it.

I think you should work on reading serves more. Unfortunately, until the ITTF gets serious about making rules that respect table tennis culture, most serves will continue to be illegal by the strictures of the ITTF rules.
 
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Ooosa. Go crack a few balls and let out some steam. Remember: punch, punch, chew!

I find whenever I get a blade I truly love, my imaginary rating goes up 10 points.
 
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Okay, here goes:

Cupping hand, using fibers to hide the ball, not presenting:

Screen Shot 2020-08-06 at 9.53.15 AM.jpg

Ball on fingers not on palm. There are many times where the ball starts on the fingers and you roll it into the palm as you are moving the hand around before the toss so the ball isn't even stationary in your hand when you start.

Screen Shot 2020-08-06 at 9.54.26 AM.jpg

I think that arm is way below the table. :)

Screen Shot 2020-08-06 at 10.50.59 AM.jpg

And here again. :)

Screen Shot 2020-08-06 at 10.52.02 AM.jpg

These two are borderline. If you squint hard enough, you might be able to see a flash of white even though the hand is below the table. :)

Screen Shot 2020-08-06 at 10.24.51 AM.jpg

Screen Shot 2020-08-06 at 10.31.18 AM.jpg
 
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And to me, it is not that you do any of this. You really have to pay attention and understand the rules and then try to make your serves legal to make them legal. But, for someone who complains about other people's illegal serves, it is really not hard to find examples that are easy to show with video/photo evidence.
 
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There is endless video of me all over you tube and Carl has found 3 borderline illegal serves from very hazy photos.

Borderline? Really? Borderline? Your elbow is the height of the table. The ball is way under in those. I chose those because it was so clear it would be hard to deny since your arm is so far down. Borderline means, still legal but very close to against the rules. Borderline means you come right up to the border of the serve being illegal but it is not quite illegal. The ones where your hand is 6" (15cm) below the table, there is nothing borderline about them. :)

Carl which opponent was I playing in clips where you took the photos.

And that is the video you started the thread with.

But I found ones, like the ones I just posted in pretty much every video I looked at. I didn't bother spending much time. I have to go to a Dr appointment. But in every video I looked at, I saw things that are against the rules of service. :)

BTW: two of them were, back to back, right at a crucial point in the last game of your match with the timeout you described as "the GOAT of timeouts." :) Pulled out a little extra mustard when you needed the points. :)
 
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Hahaha... Let's not be harsh on MOG's serve. There are many international players whose serves are borderline illegal. Ding Ning was called fault in Olympic and she said I had served like this for many years and no one told me it is a fault. She said the referee is too strict..haha. I myself have a good friend/playing partner who is an umpire. When he serves his backhand, he just drop the ball instead of tossing up. Actually he didn't do it on purpose but it has become his habit. Sometime he will toss, sometime he will not and that kind of screw up my timing when he serves long and fast. Still, it is just something he can do properly if he put some effort in it. So, is MOG's serve illegal? To some, yes. To some , it doesn't matter as it is not a deadly serve. But if I'm under stress from receiving these serves, you bet I will call an umpire and MOG will be asked to do it properly. I bet he can when he notice it. Small issue :)
 
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Hahaha... Let's not be harsh on MOG's serve. There are many international players whose serves are borderline illegal. Ding Ning was called fault in Olympic and she said I had served like this for many years and no one told me it is a fault. She said the referee is too strict..haha. I myself have a good friend/playing partner who is an umpire. When he serves his backhand, he just drop the ball instead of tossing up. Actually he didn't do it on purpose but it has become his habit. Sometime he will toss, sometime he will not and that kind of screw up my timing when he serves long and fast. Still, it is just something he can do properly if he put some effort in it. So, is MOG's serve illegal? To some, yes. To some , it doesn't matter as it is not a deadly serve. But if I'm under stress from receiving these serves, you bet I will call an umpire and MOG will be asked to do it properly. I bet he can when he notice it. Small issue :)

sssshhhhhh....we are trying to rile MOG up because it is funny when he gets all wound up. :)
 
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From this thread:

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/fo...d-National-Training-Center-April-2016-Tourney

About a tournament in Maryland:




Same basic idea: “Then there is the crowd who plays WAY better than their low 1800s rating."

I think Der just likes to compliment the people wherever he is. :)

You have it pretty much right Carl, and have been around me long enough and seen enough of my character to know that deep down, what I am will show... and you corrected observed my nature to compliment and promote other player's performance and character and diminish mine, unless there is an objective conversation where I need to present data.
 
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JCL1973 said:
He has been around 2400-2500 for several years. His east coast competition makes his rating drop to 2300++ but when he went back to LA, his rating went back to 2450. What does that say again? I have no idea based on just this sample though. So, I think that it is really up to individual play style and familiarity with the opponents.

At the 2150-2200+ level, I do not really notice much diffference between either coast's standard at and above that level.

Especially, for a 2400 level player. Greg Bartz, prolly the most legendary of us former Korean amateur TT players, came to LA Open and defeated a perennial 2500 level player to crack through 2400.

In the big tourneys, where people travel and are not in their home area and club, will have much more possibility for difference of results.

There are a lot of factors... unfamiliarity worth players, table and venue light/background/table bounce, sleep (yeah, some people will not sleep right the first night or two away, too much partying (opportunity - different area)... we could go on... but a big tourney is different in many ways.

There is also a lot more pressure to perform in a big tourney... almost everyone you face is extra motivated, unless they are there to goof off and party. If a player has a good history of coming out on top more than not in the big tourneys, that is to me a sign that player is very tourney-tough seasoned and capable solid at his level.

Often, in hte big time tourneys, you need to play several levels above your normal level throughout the long tourney just to have a CHANCE to be even in the semis for your division... and that is WITHOUT ringers in the top end...nearly EVERY good player at their level ups their game in these tourneys most of the time.
 
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Nostalgic-UpSideDownCarl said:
Yeah. I agree. And I seem to remember when Der_Echte moved to the DC area, all of a sudden the ringers and sandbaggers from the DC area where making it so the DC area was tougher to get a higher rating than elsewhere.

I think, sometimes we see the world the way we see the world. Der_ likes to compliment and praise. Wherever he has been since returning to civilian life has been the toughest place to go up in rating, until the next place became even tougher. :)

I think he just wants the Boston, NYC Philly and DC goon squads to come for a visit to LA. :)

Well... that would be GREAT if even a fraction of my east coast TT friends would come over for a few weeks when there is an actual full time club open... but that would cost money, lots.

It is more practical for me to visit. I know it is difficult to house Der_Echte and his demands of 5 star hotel and 24/7 service (right - Carl throws me a mat and I sleep on his floor and like it... or else... and it is good accomodations)... much easier and practical for me to visit...

... and I am OVER_DUE for a visit.

Someone in NYC let me know when the city will not harrass passengers getting off the bus from Boston... and when some clubs are open to gather... and I could make a visit. Been too damn long since I walked the streets to get to TT with my friends.
 
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Yeah. I agree. And I seem to remember when Der_Echte moved to the DC area, all of a sudden the ringers and sandbaggers from the DC area where making it so the DC area was tougher to get a higher rating than elsewhere.

I went to DC in 2015 when I was on the uptick in recovering from a bad grade 2 rotator cuff tear on my hitting shoulder... I was prolly 75% or so healed by then... no clubs, no TT and the injury dropped my level to 1700. I did a tourney first month back and came out low 1900s... not to far from where I felt I should be. I was up and down for another year plus accros 6-8 tourneys, had some improvement, and came out mid 1900s after DC teams.

So... even with the tough crowd at my level, I managed to at least get back and keep my level, but yeah, I though I was a little better... but the tourney results told me I wasn't... then the California tourney results really told me I wasn't all that... I eventually improved and finally proved it. Now, I will need to wiat for any consistent TT or get together with a few friends and make some consistent action to have a CHANCE to get back.
 
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JCL1973 said:
Haha... I think he miss us. Anyway, anyone that can get a rating above 2000 in USA in any region is not an easy player to beat :). Carl... we played a few times together before long ago at King Pong. I'm the asian penholder.

Hi JCL, I would be very interested in getting you, Carl, Next Level, PingPongHolic(Ming), OSP, Back Pains, and a gazilion other players together to invade a club or three like LOCUSTS and ball out. (also cause trouble.. it is a little affinity I have) (don't worry, my brand of trouble making is 180 opposite of what normal people view trouble)

I am happy to learn you and Carl have met before. Until TT forums came around, one would need to have more operational field spy contacts, and a black book 10x larger than the chief of KGB intel... beacause not so long ago, it was damn difficult to learn about people not in your immediate area... even if TT world is small.

These forums are GREAT for promoting the opportunity for players to meet each other... and most become friends quickly. It is a great chance to advertize and attact firens, old and new, as well as record HISTORY... because many of the meetups are EPIC.

Proud to see you pop on the forum, proud to see you are near Carl, proud to see you have been at this awhile.
 
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Ah, the camera angles make these serves look worse... that must be it!

Einfach KLASSE.

I have to say this in German, it conveys the proper meaning...

If anyone doesn't know, they can get off thier lazy azz (heck, not required, just get the fingers moving) and look it up online.., kinda means "that one is a real classic" or something like that in English... it just makes more sense in German or hits the head of the nail with the hammer better saying it in German.
 
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sssshhhhhh....we are trying to rile MOG up because it is funny when he gets all wound up. :)

I can’t see anything wrong with these serves, MOG is actually using an invisible ball, and you know it!!!! Your just jealous that he has that particular type of equipment that you are searching for in the ‘NEED EQUIPMENT HELP ‘ thread:eek::eek:
 
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MOG said:
What is wrong with rationalisations?
The more important thing is I do not serve like that anymore I believe.

But what is more important is that I would accept that if i lost concentration and did this in a match and was faulted I would accept it.

And if a rubbish standard player like myself can improve the legality of his serve there is no excuse for anyone else.

A lot of the players I have complained to about their serves have been a much higher level and more skilled player than myself.

We gotta be practical, and if MOG is not serving illegally, and has corrected this, then everyone is right... right to note the illegal serve, right to object (even if camera doesn't lie, right to corect it.

Since MOG likes to put up vids (and I wish more did that) we will soon see his correction, so we ought to be patient for the evidence and leave him alone on that matter for now... ought, but not a requirement.
 
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Well... that would be GREAT if even a fraction of my east coast TT friends would come over for a few weeks when there is an actual full time club open... but that would cost money, lots.

It is more practical for me to visit. I know it is difficult to house Der_Echte and his demands of 5 star hotel and 24/7 service (right - Carl throws me a mat and I sleep on his floor and like it... or else... and it is good accomodations)... much easier and practical for me to visit...

... and I am OVER_DUE for a visit.

Someone in NYC let me know when the city will not harrass passengers getting off the bus from Boston... and when some clubs are open to gather... and I could make a visit. Been too damn long since I walked the streets to get to TT with my friends.

I gave you a futon roll up mattress. But when you stayed at my mom’s I think you may have slept in my childhood loft bed.

Man, when you stayed with her you hammed it up so much she is still looking forward to your next visit.

We will have to get NextLevel to come too. He can stay with me and my evil offspring and you can make breakfast for my mom again. Hahahahaha. I will get as many from the NYC crew as I can. 42&backpains, OSPH, POHolic, Smash_Fan, Matt M who doesn’t have a handle on TTD (probably has one on MyTT), Edmund S, AS.

JCL may want to join and bring some of the guys he runs with. They would teach all of us a good lesson. [emoji2]


Sent from my NSA SpyPhone from Sector 13D-SR13Z74 Sub Level 29X Fort Meade, Maryland
 
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What is wrong with rationalisations?
The more important thing is I do not serve like that anymore I believe.

But what is more important is that I would accept that if i lost concentration and did this in a match and was faulted I would accept it.

And if a rubbish standard player like myself can improve the legality of his serve there is no excuse for anyone else.

A lot of the players I have complained to about their serves have been a much higher level and more skilled player than myself.

Speaking as a human, and not as a TT player, people tend to tune out and do the opposite of what "known complainers" get on their case and harass them about.

Depending on what degree you do this, people could even be doing it intentionally because they know they can get in your head.

Hopefully you can find some harmony amongst your fellow players.

Speaking of COMPLAINERS... DER_Echte hisself has GOT to be one of the MOST COMPLAINING people you ever met...

... but what the heck, I spent DECADES of my entire young and middle adulthood in an organization that THRIVES on complaining... the ARMY. No matter which country you are serving in... there is ALWAYS a LOT to complain about in the military.

In fact, if you are a leader, ONE of the most reliable indicators is to monitor the complaining... what kind of complaining, who is complaining, how often... and when ytou see complaining SHARPLY DECREASE, that is a sure sign sign something isn't right and deserves some scrutiny.
 
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Hi JCL, I would be very interested in getting you, Carl, Next Level, PingPongHolic(Ming), OSP, Back Pains, and a gazilion other players together to invade a club or three like LOCUSTS and ball out. (also cause trouble.. it is a little affinity I have) (don't worry, my brand of trouble making is 180 opposite of what normal people view trouble)

I am happy to learn you and Carl have met before. Until TT forums came around, one would need to have more operational field spy contacts, and a black book 10x larger than the chief of KGB intel... beacause not so long ago, it was damn difficult to learn about people not in your immediate area... even if TT world is small.

These forums are GREAT for promoting the opportunity for players to meet each other... and most become friends quickly. It is a great chance to advertize and attact firens, old and new, as well as record HISTORY... because many of the meetups are EPIC.

Proud to see you pop on the forum, proud to see you are near Carl, proud to see you have been at this awhile.

I will be playing matches with Carl this mid September after I'm quarantined for my travel. We will do our best to beat up each other first :). I look forward to play you when I visit LA. If you are in town, let me know and we can play in PingPod. I will pay for it :)
 
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