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    1. Top | #1
      TableTennisDaily is offline
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      Dignics 09c vs hurricane 3

      What's happening guys? We're out of lock down... you asked for it so here it is! Butterfly's new Dignics 09C rubber up against the most popular table tennis rubber in China, DHS’s Hurricane 3!

      In this review we use our new TTD rubber rating system so you get a better idea on how both rubbers compare in all aspects.

      Can a €20-€30 rubber from China really stand up to this €80 euro rubber from Butterfly? Watch the video to find out!



      Have you tried the 09C against H3 yet?

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    3. Top | #2
      Fabian is offline
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      The idea for the video is great but I think the comparison is not really fair.

      - First there are so many versions of H3, you should have at least tried the provincial one.

      - Dan's technique is more suited for the European style rubbers

      - Then there are also different sponge hardnesses, 39 to 41/42 is a huge difference

      - The way you boost (and which versions) change a lot of the properties

      - The most important thing about H3 is its arc in my opinion. Here it really stands out, the much lower arc and faster ball after bounce make it deadly.

      09c is not as demanding regarding technique and many people will like it better. But I think a perfectly hit ball is much more deadly with the H3.

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    5. Top | #3
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      Great review, I doubt anyone would have much to argue.

      However, I don't think they are targeting the H3 so much as the pack of other hybrids around.

      Any significant differentiation from the tried and true Tibhar Hybrid series? Even a basic topsheet and sponge hardness comparison helps.

    6. Top | #4
      zyu81 is offline
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      I'm a fan of the blind test system, however, shouldn't that have been done first?

      After running through the non-blind tests, and making evaluations, I'd imagine that it would be pretty easy to tell which one is which on the blind test.

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    8. Top | #5
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      Interesting that I catch hell for saying T05 has higher top end speed than H3 unboosted, but when they compare D09c (which I believe is considered slower than T05) to boosted H3 and say the same thing it's fine.

      Arc and bounce are another thing, but "fly" speed H3 is fast but not as fast.

      That said, in the review he says it's easier to generate spin with D09c, so likely it's more spin sensitive than H3, maybe.
      Last edited by Michael Kitt; 08-04-2020 at 04:59 PM.

    9. Top | #6
      piligrim is offline
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      So looks like not much difference

    10. Top | #7
      UpSideDownCarl is online now
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      Quote Originally Posted by Michael Kitt View Post
      Interesting that I catch hell for saying T05 has higher top end speed than H3 unboosted, but when they compare D09c (which I believe is considered slower than T05) to boosted H3 and say the same thing it's fine.
      You caught hell for saying a girl--a girl with excellent technique who hits pretty hard--could not hit as hard as you and not being willing to show the video evidence. It had nothing to do with H3.

      Without seeing video footage, I contend that it is more than likely that Hayata's stroke is technically enough better that she transfers more power into the ball than you do and that you simply don't realize it. Show the footage and we can see if you loop with as much power (combination of spin and speed) as Hayata.

      If you are flat hitting that gives a fast shot with little spin. That is not as much power as a loop with massive spin and good pace.
      Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 08-04-2020 at 05:15 PM.
      Spin Everything.

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    12. Top | #8
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      Quote Originally Posted by Michael Kitt View Post
      Interesting that I catch hell for saying T05 has higher top end speed than H3 unboosted, but when they compare D09c (which I believe is considered slower than T05) to boosted H3 and say the same thing it's fine.

      Arc and bounce are another thing, but "fly" speed H3 is fast but not as fast.
      Nobody disagreed with your comments about H3 unboosted being slow. You caught hell for saying you hit harder than Hina Hayata even though your comments are very reflective of an amateur player.

      On topic though, that is a interesting finding from Dan and Tom. Using a higher end version of H3 (boosted) probably would have been a more even comparison, nor do we know how they boosted it which could make a huge difference.

      At any rate, these Chinese provincial players felt that the 09c is not as fast as Hurricane. Translated summary of findings in the video description.


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    14. Top | #9
      UpSideDownCarl is online now
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      And, just for the record:

      Quote Originally Posted by Michael Kitt View Post
      If I said that I could punch harder than Amanda Nunes, the top ranked female fighter in the world, that must make me crazy too. There is a limit to how hard they can hit. The technique of hitting a ball with full speed while incorporating brush is not that hard a concept. Anyone can do it once in a blue moon with a little training. When a guy finally lands it, it's going to be more lethal.

      This is simple logic...
      It seems you went on to imply you can punch harder than Amanda Nunes. Maybe you can. I am still not quite sure. But, even if you can, she may still beat the pants off you in one of those matches. I don't really know how much you outweigh Amanda Nunes by. And even though punching has some technique to it, (If George Foreman's punching technique was half as good as Mike Tyson's, I would have been worried for the lives of some of his opponents because he hit hard off the wrong foot without the help of his body being behind his punches over and over and lifted guys off the ground) I don't think it has as much technique as transferring power into a little TT ball.

      This is part of what is so amazing about TT. It is a game/sport where technique, touch, feel, precision, combined with timing--timing the weight transfer, the force from the legs, the core rotation, the upper arm, the lower arm and the wrist--timing all of that to pop into the contact of the ball at the specific right moment. That is where power comes from in a good TT loop. And lots of mid and lower level players don't realize how much they don't realize about the power of precision in this sport.
      Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 08-04-2020 at 06:01 PM.

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    16. Top | #10
      IB66 is online now
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      Quote Originally Posted by MOG View Post
      I just watched the video and in the blind test I could tell straight away which rubber was which, I guessed correctly!
      I completely got the wrong end of the stick, rigged up a couple of surgical masks as a blindfold, started the review and slipped on the blindfold, didn’t have a scooby which rubber was being used !!!!!

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    18. Top | #11
      Michael Kitt is offline
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      Nunes would probably embarrass me unless I trained for a couple months at least. Hayata would annihilate me and hit the ball hard more often, but not with more power when in the most advantageous situations. I definitely don't flat hit, but anyways let's stay on topic.

    19. Top | #12
      Hamasaki_Fanz is offline
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      Hurricane is slower than Dignics09c? Hmmmm I doubt that

      https://youtu.be/perb3qAMRn0?t=199
      Last edited by Hamasaki_Fanz; 08-04-2020 at 07:37 PM.

    20. Top | #13
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      Quote Originally Posted by Michael Kitt View Post
      Nunes would probably embarrass me unless I trained for a couple months at least. Hayata would annihilate me and hit the ball hard more often, but not with more power when in the most advantageous situations. I definitely don't flat hit, but anyways let's stay on topic.
      If you have real fight training, I will accept that. If not, I highly doubt that a few months of training will help you at all against a skilled fighter.

      As far as Hayata, one lucky loop out of 100 does not equate to more power. It equates to the possibility that, randomly, once in a while, Murphy's Law can invert.

      And, just because you say you don't want us to comment on the topic, despite the fact that you commented on the topic, does not mean it will just get dropped because you said so. How this gets dropped is by you not digging yourself into a deeper hole. Which would mean, you ceasing the comments. Or you showing the video evidence.

      If you show video footage and it shows you have serious power on your loops, you can talk all you want. If you are not going to show footage of you looping, I think that is answer enough that you ARE NOT TRANSFERRING THE KIND OF POWER INTO THE BALL that Hayata is able to do over and over shot after shot even when caught out of position.

      You may swing harder. But you may have sooooooo much wasted effort that it does not transfer the power into the ball. Which is the important part of how hard a ball is hit, the transfer of your effort into the ball on contact as spin and speed.
      Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 08-04-2020 at 07:46 PM.

    21. Top | #14
      zyu81 is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Michael Kitt View Post
      Nunes would probably embarrass me unless I trained for a couple months at least. Hayata would annihilate me and hit the ball hard more often, but not with more power when in the most advantageous situations. I definitely don't flat hit, but anyways let's stay on topic.
      You previously defined these "advantageous situations" as "when the opponent hits their hardest topspin at you and you hit your hardest topspin back at them, by starting your stroke before the opponent has even finished theirs and correcting your stroke in the middle of your shot, while at the table". I'm not sure what a real player or coach would call a shot of this description, except for maybe a ridiculously foolish and low-percentage counterloop, but your description goes against every advisable aspect of counterlooping a ball at the table.

      Here's a quick video from Paul Drinkhall, a top player in the world, on how to play close to the table counter topspins. You might notice that he advises literally the direct opposite of everything you had previously described as your technique.




      But, assuming you are right, why did you compare the most "advantageous situation" for you to an off-balance off-the-table counterloop that Hayata did? Don't you think she would have a ton more power in those "advantageous situations" that weren't shown on that one 3-second GIF? Seems like an apples to oranges comparison to me, unless you have ever seen her doing the same shot which you are describing for yourself. But you said that you had never even heard of her...

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    23. Top | #15
      IB66 is online now
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      Quote Originally Posted by Hamasaki_Fanz View Post
      Hurricane is slower than Dignics09c? Hmmmm I doubt that

      https://youtu.be/perb3qAMRn0?t=199
      Hi,

      what rubber was he using? std H3? H3 provincial? ........? Red sheet so it wasn’t H3 Nat blue sponge. Do you know whether it was boosted?
      he has a very nice compact action with excellent wrist snap!!

    24. Top | #16
      zyu81 is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Hamasaki_Fanz View Post
      Hurricane is slower than Dignics09c? Hmmmm I doubt that

      https://youtu.be/perb3qAMRn0?t=199
      Got a summary of what's going on in the video?

    25. Top | #17
      Michael Kitt is offline
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      That description isn't the most advantageous, it's merely the most fun, you can adapt if opponent changes direction depending on how fast their shot is. Anyways I tested the speed from a simple drill topspin to topspin, someone posts a gif of some girl saying I should hit as hard as her, and I hit harder than that when testing, T05 was still faster. Y'all are making an argument out of nothing, especially if you don't disagree with the original statement, that T05 tops out faster than unboosted H3, regardless of how you hit the ball.

    26. Top | #18
      UpSideDownCarl is online now
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      Quote Originally Posted by Michael Kitt View Post
      That description isn't the most advantageous, it's merely the most fun, you can adapt if opponent changes direction depending on how fast their shot is. Anyways I tested the speed from a simple drill topspin to topspin, someone posts a gif of some girl saying I should hit as hard as her, and I hit harder than that when testing, T05 was still faster. Y'all are making an argument out of nothing, especially if you don't disagree with the original statement, that T05 tops out faster than unboosted H3, regardless of how you hit the ball.
      If you want to say you hit harder than her, SHOW THE FOOTAGE. No Footage, no credibility to your bragging. So, if you show the footage you can talk. If you want to talk smack, MAN UP and SHOW THE FOOTAGE.

      You bring this up, you show the proof.

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    28. Top | #19
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      My D9C experience

      I had used the D9C, Nittaku Turbo Hurricane pro 3 orange and blue and also the Hurricane Provincial. I am a one-sided penholder so I am very sensitive to the rubber as I need to loop and punch block with it.
      Having tried all these rubbers, I can confidently say that D9C is a league above Nittaku but a bit difficult to compare to Hurricane 3 Provincial (boosted). What's the difference? To begin, D9C is very easy to use. The arc is incredibly high. It is very easy to loop any ball and land it on the table. Opponents will find it hard to block because there is a sudden upward bounce when it hits the table. This upward bounce is very similar to those jumpy serve. This signature is also very different from Hurricane 3, which will make the ball dip down after contacting the table. Which one is harder to block? Both are equally harder if you are not familiar with the characteristic. When you are nearer to the table, D9C produces better deadly spin than H3. But if you are slightly away from the table, H3 loop/drive can be more devastating than D9C. Still, D9C far away loop/drive is weirder than T05 as it has a lot more spin. Counter attack with D9C is a breeze, way better than D05 or D80. Both D05 and D80 are already easy in this department. Blocking is the weakness of this rubber. It lacks pace when you do a passive block and it risks going into the net when you do an active block. It takes time to adjust but it is not worth it. The block is not fast and it gives the opponents plenty of time to go after the next shot. So, if you block with this rubber, you are giving your opponent a chance to breathe. But if you are using it to spin on your backhand, it can be good.

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    30. Top | #20
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      Quote Originally Posted by JCL1973 View Post
      ...
      Have you had the opportunity to play with rakza z ?

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