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    1. Top | #1
      MOG is offline
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      Advice on BH technique?

      Any advice, criticisms or compliments?

      Last edited by MOG; 09-03-2020 at 11:26 PM.

    2. Top | #2
      UpSideDownCarl is online now
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      Probably, since you are using Medium Pips, someone like Lula who uses SP or someone who actually uses MP might be able to give you the most help.
      Spin Everything.

    3. Top | #3
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      Im seeing a need to use a bit more wrist and also loosen the wrist. I think it helps you avoid hitting the net.

    4. Top | #4
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      You need to have your body lower (bending a bit your knees) before hitting the ball, the movement -upward- should begin from the legs (knees). Also you body should move to the ball, so the ball that is coming to you to be in your chest's middle, and not trying to reach for the ball using only your hand.

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    6. Top | #5
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      If that is short pimple I think you brush to much over the ball. I think that is why the ball goes in to the net. Try to have open racket angle and hit it flat almost under/on the bottom of the ball.

      If your natural technique is like in the video, that you brush over the ball I think an inverted rubber would be better suited.

      People that are naturally good at flat hitting/smashing should think about trying short pimples. So if you are good at brushing the ball and creating spin, inverted is the way to go.

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    8. Top | #6
      UpSideDownCarl is online now
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lula View Post
      If that is short pimple I think you brush to much over the ball. I think that is why the ball goes in to the net. Try to have open racket angle and hit it flat almost under/on the bottom of the ball.

      If your natural technique is like in the video, that you brush over the ball I think an inverted rubber would be better suited.

      People that are naturally good at flat hitting/smashing should think about trying short pimples. So if you are good at brushing the ball and creating spin, inverted is the way to go.
      Thanks. That is why I thought you would be the right person to help MOG. I have said that is what I thought before. But I really don't play SP. I just didn't think that was what you were supposed to do with them. The guys I know who are high level and play SP do a lot of evil kill shots that are just hard as hell to return because they are hard and flat.

      MOG is using Medium Pips. But he is thinking of them as SP and using them, it seems to me, like one would use smooth.
      Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 09-04-2020 at 11:40 PM.

    9. Top | #7
      MOG is offline
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      I agree that I am probably brushing too much with them. But my blade whilst going up is going forward more than the video seems to show.

      I was worried about this stroke too, but I watched a video on youtube of a guy using Keiler on a carbon blade and he hits the ball a bit like I do in this video and he is class. Cherepin I think he is called.

      I have found that when I hit flat unless the ball I receive is very short or high it goes in the net all the time.

      Because of what has been said I have thought of returning serve with the pimples on bh and then twiddling and playing rally out with pips on fh and reversed rubber on bh. But this seems insane!!

      I actually think I need to train on twiddling and train on the flat hit with the pips, but they are mid not short and they do put some spin on with my stroke and some of my serves!!

    10. Top | #8
      UpSideDownCarl is online now
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lula View Post
      Try to have open racket angle and hit it flat almost under/on the bottom of the ball.
      Ever tried what Lula is suggesting about the contact point?

      If you are hitting flat the way you would hit flat with smooth, you may not be doing what Lula is suggesting.
      Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 09-05-2020 at 01:11 AM.

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    12. Top | #9
      Lula is offline
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      The reason why you want to hit a bit under the ball, start under the ball and hit more up is because with short pimples and even more with middle is that grip is not as good as with inverted. Less grip make it less sensitive for spin, bad at creating own spin and therefore hard to get an arc. And also because you want to flat hit it is a stroke with little arc.

      By hitting more under and up you still get a little arc and more margin for error. Also important because the little grip always makes the ball sink a little on the rubber.

      The ball probably sinks more on the middle pimple rubber because of less grip so probably much harder to play safe with than with medium pips.

      Looping with short pimple is useless so if you want to use them I recommend trying to flat hit more.

      If you hit the net it can be the above mention, come to high and hit down or take the ball lower than the highest point.

      If you want to flat hit, that is a stroke with less arc it is only possible at the highest point. Smash under and you hit the net. So can only smash at the highest point.

      Here is a close up video that i found. Looks pretty good! He comes a bit under the ball, have open racket angle so flat hit the ball and tries to have short contact with the ball and tried to take the ball st the highest point. You can Also hear on the sound when the hit is good. Want that popping sound.

      https://youtu.be/zKVxFbGLzdo

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    14. Top | #10
      Lula is offline
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      Looked at your video again. It feels you do some very good strokes but sometimes you want to brush to much. If you look at the video you can proably see that the strokes do not look the same all the time.

      The ones where you hit the net is proably you close to much and brush but the ball grips to little and moves on the rubber so it goes down in the net. Other strokes you have move open and try to hit it more. That is better.

      Maybe you feel you need to brush because the ball goes down in the net? try to focus at taking it at the highest point instead.

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    16. Top | #11
      yogi_bear is offline
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      Using whatever pips need to hit through the sponge and always at peak of the bounce or earlier.

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    18. Top | #12
      MOG is offline
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      Thanks Carl, Lula and Yogi, I will try and work on the stroke.

      See if I can get some improvement!!

      I have seen that video before, I thought the important thing is that while his bat lifts he is going forward and hitting the ball too. Going forward more than lifting, and he is not brushing!

      I dont think it would be that hard for me to adjust my shot!
      Last edited by MOG; 09-05-2020 at 01:16 PM.

    19. Top | #13
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      These are not SP strokes and you are not getting SP results. Thw bat is too closed and you are swinging from below table height up to your chest. Your partner even blocked a few off the end. With SP hits you would expect him to play in the net.

      You are basically using your pips like a bad inverted by trying to topspin with them. That is what everyone does who tries to switch from inverted to pips without completely changing their stroke and timing. You can do it. It just doesn't allow your pips to do their job.

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    21. Top | #14
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      Quote Originally Posted by Brs View Post
      These are not SP strokes and you are not getting SP results. Thw bat is too closed and you are swinging from below table height up to your chest. Your partner even blocked a few off the end. With SP hits you would expect him to play in the net.

      You are basically using your pips like a bad inverted by trying to topspin with them. That is what everyone does who tries to switch from inverted to pips without completely changing their stroke and timing. You can do it. It just doesn't allow your pips to do their job.
      Brs is right. Short Pips or MP favours a compact stroke rather than a larger stroke.

      A close shot of how to play pips effectively is from this Youtube from Vietnam.


    22. Top | #15
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      I think this is actually a pretty good shot, but you should be using it sparingly, for variation or to setup a higher return you can attack with a more conventional SP type stroke.

    23. Top | #16
      MOG is offline
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      I think you guys are right and wrong.

      You need to 'loop' like that with pips to attack chop. Although I do accept I probably drop the bat too much.
      I do not do this on shorter balls. I do however impart spin on the ball even with pips at times.

      and in the video she is getting high short balls that she hits with the flat shot, i can do that on short high balls.
      even she loops up v chop.

      And there is an argument that if a shot works and is not textbook there is an argument that it is ok to use it.
      I still hit plenty of bh winners with my pips even against higher players than myself.

      But I do need to develop the flatter hit more.
      However the mid pips i use can be used in more varied ways than sp which I think is why Lula and others recommended me using them.

      IMO there is too much talk of technically perfect shots on this forum.

      I have beaten many players with my crap footwork, crap loops and crap serves that are better than me and have much better technics than myself in their strokes.

    24. Top | #17
      Der_Echte is offline
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      First thing you need to do is figure out tactically and strategically what you want to do with the BH using material coverieng.

      Do you want a fast enough shot with little spin to middle or uncomfortable place (to et an error or setup FH)

      Do you want to finish the point suddenly?

      Do you want to control the ball, extend ralies, and suddenly spring a Fh on a looser ball or suddenly step around?

      Do you want to place return of serve and handle spin?

      Do you want to loop (like one would do with inverted) ? (Give up on that with MP, you won't get enough spin)

      Do you want to hit through an opponent's topspin close to the table?

      Do you want to retrieve?


      As you can see, a player using MP can do a lot of things. Decide what you want first. Decide where you will be playing - parked at table or off. All the shots are way different on those.

      The BH using inverted, as well as the BH using MP share many of the same foundations.

      - BE IN POSITION crouched
      - Be on time ready
      - Get elbow in front enough to the side enough and STABLE
      - Avoid using the shoulder joint as a hinge (unless out of position and there is no use)
      - Use the lower arm with elbow as hinge and fulcrum
      - Be loose
      - Firm up only at impact
      - Use as short a stroike as it takes - do not use long stroke close to the table, save that for a off the table
      - Use of wrist varies for objective, but it helps, even on the fast hits with little spin to keep wrist loose, use a little of it at the end before inpmact and firm it up right at impact.
      - You borrow kinetic energy, or create it and ampplify it and deliver it

      ***** OK, See, I just listed a WHOLE BUNCH of things to do that inverted players ought to be featuring in their BH... and the same things apply to a BH with MP.

      Looking at your vid...

      - I DO SEE YOU move to position, or try to.
      - I DO SEE you NOT trying to use shoulder as a hinge - Good
      - I DO SEE you using teh lower arm with elbow as a stable hinge, or mostly stable
      - I do SEE you getting elbow into position before shot

      - I see you are trying a very long stroke and trying to hit the ball too hard with your arm
      ......... - this is going to lead you to inconsistency close to the table for your base shot... you need a much shorter stroke
      ......... - you should use that long stroke only when you are sure to finish... and it would greatly help to take a small step and hit in rythym to get extra energy into the chain

      Even with SLOW SLOW SLOW LP in OX !!! Yes, OX, I can hit a faster BH with a shorter stroke. It is about the whip and timing.

      What you are doing with your BH to add power is inefficient and not so reliable close to the table

      To help you visualize your BH power transfer and stroke better... imagine you are Mohammad Ali, yes, the GREATEST boxer, and you are floating like a butterfly going around your opponent in a circle... and suddenly, you sting 'em with a punch that comes from your abdomen/chest area, goes to the nose and just to the nose, strikes that schnouzer crsuhing it into his grill with your glove on the end of the knuckles or even the top part of the glove to sting 'em like a bee... you firmed up right when you impact that honker, but were totally loose and carefree until then.

      That is the style of whip to sting and deliver force.

      What you are doing is impacting the ball and carrying your stroke WAY WAY longer and it does nothing... it is showing me you are already firmed up and are trying to use Popeye forearm to power it and trying to spin it like it is inverted... that is better than using the shoulder, but a tight arm and exta long stroke at the table doesn't get it done.

      The key is a loose wirst, used some or a little some and firmed up right on impact. It will shorten your stroke considerably and still deliver more power to the ball.

      Right now, you are floating like an elaphant and stingling like a goldfish.
      Last edited by Der_Echte; 09-05-2020 at 06:27 PM.
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    26. Top | #18
      MOG is offline
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      Great post Der_echte!!

      Thanks, if I can take those improvements to the table I think I will be fine.
      I am going to stick with the 7 ply woods I think these help with the correct pimple shots too.

      And I am going to start working on twiddle with big fh loop when i'm off the table. And the odd return of serve!!

    27. Top | #19
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      wow...you do that with medium pips...congrats on developing a way to use medium pips almost like inverted...it makes sense why you lift the elbow and also break integrity sideways sometimes through the strokes to create the lift on the ball...i can't help you with the technique while using medium pips...if you don't mind me asking how long did it take you to develop these shots?

    28. Top | #20
      MOG is offline
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      Used Fextra twice today and I reckon it helped me flatten the pip shot.
      I will do some training and show some evidence, see if my feelings were correct!!

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