Advice on BH technique?

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This is a good intro: https://youtu.be/QkAtYs6gwig. (from Vicky Jiao).

I am also playing with short pips backhand and I twiddle sometimes but the difficulty is that then you need two sets of strokes which takes a lot of practice. I am slowly getting there after 1 year.

I also found one has to make a decision on whether to attempt to spin with the pips. Horizontal pips like Rakza PO or Moristo SP AX or TSP Spinpips are more spinny compared to vertically aligned pips like TSP Spectol or Moristo SP. I went with less spinny = Moristo SP and I am still using a b/h top spin motion against chop which my coach calls "rolling", similar to the video mentioned above from Vietnam.

I really liked the b/h explanations by 황세준 (Hwang Sejun) in
https://youtu.be/OYrcQ09xsZ8
and it does have English subtitles in YouTube's Close Captioning. Also it doesn't hurt to copy Mima Ito exactly, I think she is doing some very creative things with the short pips which I haven't seen from other players.
 

MOG

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This is a good intro: https://youtu.be/QkAtYs6gwig. (from Vicky Jiao).

I am also playing with short pips backhand and I twiddle sometimes but the difficulty is that then you need two sets of strokes which takes a lot of practice. I am slowly getting there after 1 year.

I also found one has to make a decision on whether to attempt to spin with the pips. Horizontal pips like Rakza PO or Moristo SP AX or TSP Spinpips are more spinny compared to vertically aligned pips like TSP Spectol or Moristo SP. I went with less spinny = Moristo SP and I am still using a b/h top spin motion against chop which my coach calls "rolling", similar to the video mentioned above from Vietnam.

I really liked the b/h explanations by 황세준 (Hwang Sejun) in
https://youtu.be/OYrcQ09xsZ8
and it does have English subtitles in YouTube's Close Captioning. Also it doesn't hurt to copy Mima Ito exactly, I think she is doing some very creative things with the short pips which I haven't seen from other players.


As a fat flat footed 50 year old man, trying to mimic Mima Ito is something of a challenge!!

Head in the clouds. Ha ha.
 

MOG

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if your using pips see if this help if u ever decide to go back
this video help me alot
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TgH05Ku5S0


This video is very interesting!!

The point about using the top of the blade with short pips might go some way to explain why most SP players prefer stiff carbon or 7 ply blades. You want that stability, you obviously get more flex especially at the top of the blade with 5 ply looping blades and this reflects my experience of flexy blades feeling uncontrolled and erratic with SP.

Also the explanation of hitting the ball in the middle of your chest is very very much my experience, since using short or mid pips my bh breaks down very quickly if I play a bh toward my crossover or wide, you cant steal like you can with reversed by using your wrist to spin when you are not fully behind the ball.

I have just started using a couple of stiffer blades and whilst I am still adjusting they do seem more suited to the pips!!
 
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MOG, looked at the vid, the earlier part of the vid where you try to use MP just like inverted will usually not have a very good outcome in terms of points won.

The points later in the vid where you struck the ball net height or higher on the rise to make a fast ball (that was also a little quick too, since you took it kinda early) those fast/flat shots have a better chance to win points or make good pressure that leads to the point in your favor.

Stack the odds in your favor as often as you can... stop trying to play MP like inverted would be a logical path.
 
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I Feel that it is easy to get to fixed by the technique. As long as the result is good. I think that it looks like The output, the result by your strokes with backhand is good so maybe do not need to change.

Schlager looked like a stiff robot but won a pretty nice title. Boll do a grip change that most coaches would have said no too. Everyone played different, as long as it is functional for your game.

If you think the problem is to tight grip, try to twiddle the bat in your Hand between points. Actually have a friend that is probably better than most of the players here that throw the racket a bit in the air and catch it with the same hand because it helps him to have a loose grip. It looks really fun. Like he joggles with one hand.
 
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I think it would be good for me to take the advice everyone has suggested and improve the more technical traditional hit with shorter stroke and flatter hit with SP.
But maybe not loose my now infamous reversed pseudo pip loop.

Perhaps I should try and improve it but have both types of shot in my arsenal, then I have variation.

A couple of local players have said that it is no good hitting everything with pips as you dont get the doubt from opponent you get with variation and players might just step back or counter and adjust, so they both suggested as Lula more variation and blocks etc.

But I feel I agree with Lula on grip and idiosyncrasies, I feel if I improve my footwork, loosen my grip, improve and shorten bh pip hitting, incorporate more forearm swing on fh loop and generally relax more during match play, this stuff should all be worth two or three points a game. If I master all these things then maybe I can look at the grip then and absolutely correcting the technique!

A lot of the shots I miss that look incorrect are basically because my feet are not moving and my body is adjusting what I have to do with my upper body and arm. This is very clear when I watch my videos back.
 
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Do you need to change the backhand? Seems like it works for you in matchplay. Do not need to play so hard with backhand. Place the ball well and vary tempo.

Think more important to try to change the forehand a bit so you are able to kill the ball. Less pool, and more swing like golf. So work with the forearm and not push with shoulder.

I also do not think a deep grip is a problem. The problem is if you grip to tight so you get tense.
 
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Do you need to change the backhand? Seems like it works for you in matchplay. Do not need to play so hard with backhand. Place the ball well and vary tempo.

Think more important to try to change the forehand a bit so you are able to kill the ball. Less pool, and more swing like golf. So work with the forearm and not push with shoulder.

I also do not think a deep grip is a problem. The problem is if you grip to tight so you get tense.

The BH stroke is a "reversed muscle exercise" which usually needs less swing and body mechanics, opposite to the FH.
BUT - wrist swing is much more needed and usable in BH, its a must have in BH.
In FH you need toe-to-finger swing, independent wrist motions /like in the video above/ are of surplus.
Locking the wrist and eliminating the control of finger pressure with that grip is a jeopardize of both exercises.
 
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Yes, but everyone do not need to play the same or have the perfect technique. And the perfect technique is more what suits your style of play. Maybe MOG do not need to play backhand like Mimo Ito and smash hard alot, he can block with variation and placement. In matchplay it looked to me like his backhand worked pretty well for his style of play.

Then of course he can proably change his stroke and become better, but he can proably keep on doing like he does and develop the game around it. Interesting discussion if you should make weaknesses better or build our game around strengths and focus on them.

I like technique but have realized that everything do not need to perfect, and that there are several ways to play tabletennis.
 
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I think it would be good for me to take the advice everyone has suggested and improve the more technical traditional hit with shorter stroke and flatter hit with SP.
But maybe not loose my now infamous reversed pseudo pip loop.

Perhaps I should try and improve it but have both types of shot in my arsenal, then I have variation.

A couple of local players have said that it is no good hitting everything with pips as you dont get the doubt from opponent you get with variation and players might just step back or counter and adjust, so they both suggested as Lula more variation and blocks etc.

But I feel I agree with Lula on grip and idiosyncrasies, I feel if I improve my footwork, loosen my grip, improve and shorten bh pip hitting, incorporate more forearm swing on fh loop and generally relax more during match play, this stuff should all be worth two or three points a game. If I master all these things then maybe I can look at the grip then and absolutely correcting the technique!

A lot of the shots I miss that look incorrect are basically because my feet are not moving and my body is adjusting what I have to do with my upper body and arm. This is very clear when I watch my videos back.

This is a good post. And some of the BH shots in the most recent video on BH look like you are starting to add some of those hits to the BH arsenal. I agree that variation is important. And it looks like you are starting to do that.

And the statements about the feet show you are seeing where some of the issues with the BH are coming from. Moving the feet into position is not easy to start doing when you haven't for so long. But seeing it is the first part. When you start feeling it as it is happening, it becomes easier to change. So, I am impressed that some of those changes are starting to happen. Good job.
 
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This is a good post. And some of the BH shots in the most recent video on BH look like you are starting to add some of those hits to the BH arsenal. I agree that variation is important. And it looks like you are starting to do that.

And the statements about the feet show you are seeing where some of the issues with the BH are coming from. Moving the feet into position is not easy to start doing when you haven't for so long. But seeing it is the first part. When you start feeling it as it is happening, it becomes easier to change. So, I am impressed that some of those changes are starting to happen. Good job.

Carl we have to stop agreeing on stuff, it's not entertaining for the forum members. Soon there will be complaints!!

;););)
 
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Carl we have to stop agreeing on stuff, it's not entertaining for the forum members. Soon there will be complaints!!

;););)

There was another thread where you said you had used multiple blades in the last few days where I was very tempted to ask about that blade you announced would cure you of the EJ virus. [emoji2]


Sent from my NSA SpyPhone from Sector 13D-SR13Z74 Sub Level 29X Fort Meade, Maryland
 
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Very interesting practice today!!

Today I practised with a pip guy, short pimples on fh and long pimples on bh. He played a lot of short balls.

My pip hitting was excellent on these short balls and 'proper' pip flat hitting. I was like a 50 year old man version of Mima Ito, ball placement and speed was excellent, really quite excellent.

I wish I had some video!!
 
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Very interesting practice today!!

Today I practised with a pip guy, short pimples on fh and long pimples on bh. He played a lot of short balls.

My pip hitting was excellent on these short balls and 'proper' pip flat hitting. I was like a 50 year old man version of Mima Ito, ball placement and speed was excellent, really quite excellent.

I wish I had some video!!
It is probably better you don't, it always looks worse on video than your brain pretends it was.
 
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Have you also used Spectol Red?
And what is your standard and style of play?
What thickness are your Spectol Blue?

I've used Spectol Red and now use Spectol Blue in 1.8mm.

I mostly play a fairly conventional SP hitting/inverted FH looping close to the table game, but what I like about Spectol is it is very easy to achieve a lot of spin variation with, which is something I can fall back on to try and set up more opportunities to attack if I am out of position or I start to get dragged in to a pushing rally for example.

Going back to the original topic, I do think your backhand is good, and perhaps 'using it sparingly' was overstating it - maybe working on a more conventional SP stroke to use in addition might have been a better way of putting it.

Out of interest, and I don't want to encourage you to try more equipment, have you ever tried a more spinny type of pips? Just wondering how they might work for you with your backhand.
 
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