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    1. Top | #1
      Kuba Hajto is online now
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      Improving shot selection

      Sup,

      I know this is kind of basic, but basics are foundation of every rally. I am experiencing some issues in matchplay where I pick wrong shot for incoming ball. I either loop the ball as if it was underspin ball when the ball is empty etc. Most notably I have issues trying looping high balls. I know I should just smash those, but for some reason just want to loop those, and I am usually late in the timing. I noticed I have a tendency of doing same shot multiple times in a row, even if it is not most optimal choice.

      I want to work on that decision making process. I noticed that for me even if the shot is not 100% technically beautiful, if it is proper shot for the ball, its usually more successful one. I would love if you recommend me some exercises that will help me embrace the chaos present.

      Some will say just play the matches. I don't thing that is ideal. I thing I will be leaning towards semi chaotic multiball. Match rallies are very short. I would prefer much more continuous excercices. I noticed that attack from whole table into oppont single side are doing me some favor, but I would love to prepare more training scenarios.

      Another where this messes me up is the fact that I usually play with rather good players, they pack a punch, very low to the net balls, very spinny. I often have issues playing with lower level players because the often do high, empty balls, and I am staring at that ball thinking "what am I suppose to do with that ball kek".
      Last edited by Kuba Hajto; 4 Weeks Ago at 12:22 PM.
      WTB Donic Ovtcharov / Original No.1 Senso

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    3. Top | #2
      Dr Evil is offline
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      Pattern drills like McAfee's five ball training might help.

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    5. Top | #3
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      I think you decide beforehand. Try looking more at your opponent and try to see more what is coming and then decide. I like to explain to players that if you have the time to think "This is an easy ball" then you could really go for it and try to kill it. Maybe that will help you smash the high balls instead of decide before hand and loop them.

      I think multiballs would be really good. Maybe start easy with only balls to the backhand but the feeder vary the tempo and spin. The same for forehand. Then you can do more over the whole table.

      If you do not have the possiblity to do multiball maybe you can do drills where you ask the opponent to try to block in different tempo and the same when they are attacking.

    6. Top | #4
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      First off, I wouldn't say you need to smash every high ball rather than loop it. That's not true.

      As to your question - this is mental. You probably think you are rushed which is why you try force things and make a decision. You will need to find a way to correct your thought patterns and see and read the ball before you react first. Every player of every level struggles with this to some degree, anticipation is a big part of the game and sometimes you are wrong. But the more you try to rush yourself the worse this problem gets.

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    8. Top | #5
      UpSideDownCarl is online now
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      I think there are some good posts already. But, to me it sounds like this is the exact time for one of my favorite videos that I post quite frequently. It is worth watching if you have not and trying to understand the underlying concept and how what they are talking about would train the reading and responding part of match play.



      To my understanding, this video is entirely about a way of training that gets you to train ways of reading and responding in game situations while training other things.

      There is always multiple ways of returning any ball. It is not about right and wrong. But having more tools in your tool kit helps you pull out effective ways to respond based on the opponent you are facing. So, reading the scenario and responding.
      Spin Everything.

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    10. Top | #6
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      To me training vs a good long pimples player is the best to work on reading the spin and deciding when and how hard to attack. Someone who can vary between yeavy backspin and dead, whether they block at the table or chop. You always have time, but choosing the right stroke isn't easy.

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    12. Top | #7
      yogi_bear is offline
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      Multiball with varying amount of underspin and.ake it random. Watch how contact is made when doing pushes to further improve spin reading ability and how to react to it.

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    14. Top | #8
      Kuba Hajto is online now
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      Quote Originally Posted by Dr Evil View Post
      Pattern drills like McAfee's five ball training might help.
      I am already doing this to some extent. This article will prove useful though. Thank you very much.

      Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl View Post
      I think there are some good posts already. But, to me it sounds like this is the exact time for one of my favorite videos that I post quite frequently. It is worth watching if you have not and trying to understand the underlying concept and how what they are talking about would train the reading and responding part of match play.



      To my understanding, this video is entirely about a way of training that gets you to train ways of reading and responding in game situations while training other things.

      There is always multiple ways of returning any ball. It is not about right and wrong. But having more tools in your tool kit helps you pull out effective ways to respond based on the opponent you are facing. So, reading the scenario and responding.
      Thank you very much for the video. I've already seen you posting it and watched it. My post was more about implementing training scenarios in tt.

      Quote Originally Posted by yogi_bear View Post
      Multiball with varying amount of underspin and.ake it random. Watch how contact is made when doing pushes to further improve spin reading ability and how to react to it.
      That's a good one. I was already doing block multiball to train switch loop types (which was a bit hard for me, because my grip was tiny bit different between loop against backspin, and fast loop).

      Quote Originally Posted by zyu81 View Post
      First off, I wouldn't say you need to smash every high ball rather than loop it. That's not true.

      As to your question - this is mental. You probably think you are rushed which is why you try force things and make a decision. You will need to find a way to correct your thought patterns and see and read the ball before you react first. Every player of every level struggles with this to some degree, anticipation is a big part of the game and sometimes you are wrong. But the more you try to rush yourself the worse this problem gets.
      That is true. I have most troubles with ball that are really high. Most successful approach to those for me was contacting ballon the top before top of the bounce. When I was late I have issues even hitting the ball. I am late I am usually doing really late push (to keep it low), but that realieves too much pressure of opponent.


      Quote Originally Posted by Brs View Post
      To me training vs a good long pimples player is the best to work on reading the spin and deciding when and how hard to attack. Someone who can vary between yeavy backspin and dead, whether they block at the table or chop. You always have time, but choosing the right stroke isn't easy.
      Good one. If I force choppers at my club to not chop every ball That sounds like a plan.

    15. Top | #9
      UpSideDownCarl is online now
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      Quote Originally Posted by Kuba Hajto View Post
      Thank you very much for the video. I've already seen you posting it and watched it. My post was more about implementing training scenarios in tt.
      Do you train match scenarios without counting points? Doing a certain amount of training where you are playing exactly how you would without the idea of winning or losing the point being part of it can get you to approach the same situations differently.

      Quote Originally Posted by Kuba Hajto View Post
      That is true. I have most troubles with ball that are really high. Most successful approach to those for me was contacting ballon the top before top of the bounce. When I was late I have issues even hitting the ball. I am late I am usually doing really late push (to keep it low), but that realieves too much pressure of opponent.
      If what you have the most trouble with is when someone is lobbing (maybe even lobbing with corkscrew spin where the ball bounces to the side like how Adam Bobrow loves to play) then finding someone who is a lobber and practice that. There are so many ways to respond to balls that really bounce high.

      Drop shots, catching the ball right off the bounce before it rises too high. All options take practice on that specific skill. High balls are hard. And it takes a lot of practice against them to gain the skills to have a variety of ways to approach them.

      But, maybe I am still not understanding what you are asking.

    16. Top | #10
      IB66 is online now
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      Quote Originally Posted by Brs View Post
      To me training vs a good long pimples player is the best to work on reading the spin and deciding when and how hard to attack. Someone who can vary between yeavy backspin and dead, whether they block at the table or chop. You always have time, but choosing the right stroke isn't easy.
      Hi Brs,

      why do you think reading spin against LP is better?

      cheers.

    17. Top | #11
      Kuba Hajto is online now
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      Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl View Post
      Do you train match scenarios without counting points? Doing a certain amount of training where you are playing exactly how you would without the idea of winning or losing the point being part of it can get you to approach the same situations differently.
      Yes. I may have already said, but the local provincial (voivodeship level) junior team allowed me to train with them, and we do a lot of exercises that are quite similar to what you described. Most of the time in form of timed matches (you do not play in point limit but to a time limit, usually unknown time limit). The judge yells stop randomly, and then the winner goes to the higher-level table, the loser goes to the lower-level table. It introduces the tension you are talking about and forces you to care about each of the points (since match can end at any time, and most of the time you don't want to be stuck on the lowest level table). We also do that but with additional limitations like you must attack 3rd ball or you lose the point. It helps in many levels (forces you to think strategically and provoke certain returns from the opponent.

      Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl View Post
      But, maybe I am still not understanding what you are asking
      .
      I used the term "shot selection" because that's what Dan used in one of his latest videos. The issue is I misjudge incoming balls. I want to loop them with full swing despite having not enough time. I want to loop them, but I miss the timing and I am late, which in combination with the fact that I have issues with looping dropping balls make me lose many balls.

      Additionally. Over the last week I've tried to change the environment a little. Get more information on my playing issues. I noticed that I terribly suck against lower level players. I have trouble playing against high weak balls. Most of the players I play with almost always return spinny low balls, and I am really accustomed to returning them in various ways. But If I play with a kid that plays weak, high, and short balls I have issues judging the timing. That Is one of the problems.

      Another one is purely mental I think, as one of the users here noticed. I want to put too much through ball then I can handle timing-wise, and miss the ball completely. Last training session (yesterday evening), I focused mostly on returning the ball, putting in on the other end of the table. I tried to stop using the best technique I can, I focused on placement and actually returning the ball, and not trying to topspin every ball. I had much better consistency but got repeatedly killed.

      Based the info I gathered my issues are mostly related on not getting to the right position and overcommiting to shots. With an emphasis on balls that are high and short (focus on returning the ball in a way that does not promote kill form opponent side), balls that are behind the table and are high (although on last training I got more time on smashing and got better timing), and balls that are chest to neck high and are mostly empty. I got that information by counting lost points yesterday. Also my backhand from behind the table is really bad, but that is rather easy to practice on.

    18. Top | #12
      UpSideDownCarl is online now
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      Quote Originally Posted by Kuba Hajto View Post
      Yes. I may have already said, but the local provincial (voivodeship level) junior team allowed me to train with them, and we do a lot of exercises that are quite similar to what you described. Most of the time in form of timed matches (you do not play in point limit but to a time limit, usually unknown time limit). The judge yells stop randomly, and then the winner goes to the higher-level table, the loser goes to the lower-level table. It introduces the tension you are talking about and forces you to care about each of the points (since match can end at any time, and most of the time you don't want to be stuck on the lowest level table). We also do that but with additional limitations like you must attack 3rd ball or you lose the point. It helps in many levels (forces you to think strategically and provoke certain returns from the opponent.
      Well, simply said, you are misunderstanding me. This is the opposite of what I am suggesting. I am saying a scenario where it makes no difference whatsoever if you "win" or "lose" the point so you can, WITHOUT ANY PRESSURE, try multiple approaches to returning the balls you are having trouble with without the pressure of thinking you need the approach to work.

      But it does not matter if you are understanding what I am saying or of you are not. It sounds like you are starting to get a better handle on what you need. And.....

      Quote Originally Posted by Kuba Hajto View Post
      I noticed that I terribly suck against lower level players. I have trouble playing against high weak balls. Most of the players I play with almost always return spinny low balls, and I am really accustomed to returning them in various ways. But If I play with a kid that plays weak, high, and short balls I have issues judging the timing. That Is one of the problems.
      You have put your finger on at least part of the problem. So....You need to practice against this. You said high balls so I thought you meant lobbing. But what you are describing is junk balls and accidental junk balls.

      When a ball comes back with strange things on it that may even be different than what the opponent tried to put on the ball, if you have trouble with those, you just have to practice against them, and the kind of player who accidentally gives them, enough so you start reading them sooner and knowing what to do against them.

      The issue is, when you practice against that enough, you start seeing that there are multiple way of responding and not feeling rushed and getting to the ball in time in spite of the fact that what came off the opponent's racket might even be a surprise to the opponent.

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