Stupid question about Tenergy 05!

Tango K · Nov 2, 2020

If I were you and I played quite actively, I probably wouldn't choose a rubber for its ability to block. It's the other way round. After choosing the rubber due to its spin, throw, speed, bounciness, tackiness etc, you practise blocking with it so you know how it reacts to various types of incoming balls. Blocking in the end is just a mini drive that you effectively borrow incoming energy completely (and even reducing it), so it's mostly on the feel.

Regarding H3. I'm not sure about its spin sensitivity but it kills a lot of incoming energy. So that's why it's easier to soft-block with it.

MOG · Nov 2, 2020

Tango K said:
If I were you and I played quite actively, I probably wouldn't choose a rubber for its ability to block. It's the other way round. After choosing the rubber due to its spin, throw, speed, bounciness, tackiness etc, you practise blocking with it so you know how it reacts to various types of incoming balls. Blocking in the end is just a mini drive that you effectively borrow incoming energy completely (and even reducing it), so it's mostly on the feel.

Regarding H3. I'm not sure about its spin sensitivity but it kills a lot of incoming energy. So that's why it's easier to soft-block with it.

So does 05 do this better than 05fx because of the hardness, does it absorb and re-direct incoming energy better in general?
On counter hits
counter loops
active blocks

Tango K · Nov 2, 2020

I would try to see which degree of hardness I feel comfy with. And that’s all. I wouldn’t generalise based on other people saying. They are not me. The way you create spin is certainly not the same as the way I do. So you try to spin the ball with a variety of incoming balls (say in your case according to videos I’ve seen, may be a slow dead ball vs a decent power one, but not a very fast one as you wouldn’t counter that) and which rubbers make you feel the contact better. Then stick with it. Then fix other things around it.

The key is WHICH MAKES YOU FEEL, not which lands the ball. You have to adapt to the rubber.

Back to me myself again, for example. I tend to focus more on spin than power but my contact is still quite thick even against dead or backspin ball. Say against a dead ball, I would just throw my weight in. So therefore I feel comfy with hard rubber. Some spin players spin the ball by very thin contact. Their ball tends to die down closer to the table. If they want to push you away, they hit very hard instead of spinning. They prefer soft rubber as it’s easier to spin with very thin contact.

NOBODY WILL EVER TELL YOU WHO YOU ARE. So at some point you gotta believe in your own feeling.

UpSideDownCarl · Nov 2, 2020

1) How did T05 get categorized as a hard rubber in this discussion?
T05 is harder than T05fx but compared to H3 and some of the new Hard Euro/Japanese rubbers, it is pretty soft. I think it usually gets categorized as "medium" in the hardness category.
2) I would be leery of anyone attempting to divine qualities of T05 based on assumptions about H3 or any rubber trying to be in the hardness category of an H3.

To find out if T05 will do what you want, you would have to stick it on a racket and use it for a few weeks to find if you can unearth some of the things that make T05 tick. I have a feeling, if you stick T05 on your racket, it may be off long before you have had time to properly adjust to the rubber and find the things that would actually be useful to your game about it.

But, I would still go for it. Or, better yet, I think you should get Dignics 09c.

UpSideDownCarl · Nov 2, 2020

BTW: H3, with a dead, non-bouncy sponge and a tacky top sheet--I don't find it spin sensitive but I guess that depends on how you touch the ball--but those qualities make it very good for short game, whereas, a rubber like T05 which has a sponge that Butterfly dubbed "Spring Sponge" you need to exert control over the incoming spin to use T05 effectively. But it is also excellent for what FZD and ZJK used to do with it on return of serves with their BH.

So, learn to twiddle and open with BH loops over the table on the FH side when you get T05 (or 64 or.....). If you can use the grip of the topsheet and the catapult of the sponge on topspin shots with T05, you will be using it for what it does best: project the ball out with great spin and darn good speed for a rubber as soft as it is.

If you want something that helps you push short low and spinny, if you have the skills, T05 can do that. But it is much easier to do with H3. But, if you have trouble reading incoming spin on serves, T05 may not be ideal....those issues may make it not so easy to handle.

IB66 · Nov 2, 2020

MOG said:
My point is everyone says H3 neo is more sensitive to incoming spin than most euro/jap rubbers, but I find the grip and hardness I guess allow me to control the incoming spin more on counters and pushes etc.
Most rubber reviewers say that the harder sponges even on euro/jap rubbers are easier for serve return etc as they are less bouncy.

If these factors are correct for 05 v 05fx I suspect I should use 05. Especially as I want to use my Xiom Solo as it makes my bh pips better for attacking and blocking.

My fh block is very active and is actually a mini counter topspin (very mini)

i agree with both Zeio and yourself!!
better players can control incoming spin better regardless of rubber choice, simply because they are better players.
however different rubbers do have different sensitivities to spin, end of!!!!
long frictionless pimples, anti spin, short med long pips etc etc blah blah blah.

Tango K · Nov 2, 2020

UpSideDownCarl said:
1) How did T05 get categorized as a hard rubber in this discussion?
T05 is harder than T05fx but compared to H3 and some of the new Hard Euro/Japanese rubbers, it is pretty soft. I think it usually gets categorized as "medium" in the hardness category.
2) I would be leery of anyone attempting to divine qualities of T05 based on assumptions about H3 or any rubber trying to be in the hardness category of an H3.

To find out if T05 will do what you want, you would have to stick it on a racket and use it for a few weeks to find if you can unearth some of the things that make T05 tick. I have a feeling, if you stick T05 on your racket, it may be off long before you have had time to properly adjust to the rubber and find the things that would actually be useful to your game about it.

But, I would still go for it. Or, better yet, I think you should get Dignics 09c.

Haizzzzz. You see I’ve been trying so hard to cure him..........

IB66 · Nov 2, 2020

UpSideDownCarl said:
1) How did T05 get categorized as a hard rubber in this discussion?
T05 is harder than T05fx but compared to H3 and some of the new Hard Euro/Japanese rubbers, it is pretty soft. I think it usually gets categorized as "medium" in the hardness category.
2) I would be leery of anyone attempting to divine qualities of T05 based on assumptions about H3 or any rubber trying to be in the hardness category of an H3.

To find out if T05 will do what you want, you would have to stick it on a racket and use it for a few weeks to find if you can unearth some of the things that make T05 tick. I have a feeling, if you stick T05 on your racket, it may be off long before you have had time to properly adjust to the rubber and find the things that would actually be useful to your game about it.

But, I would still go for it. Or, better yet, I think you should get Dignics 09c.

Hi Carl & MOG !!!!

T05 has been around for a few years, and I think that it’s only over the past couple of years that ESN rubbers have reached similar hardnesses? when considering the type of top sheet.
So I would think that a ESN user from 10 yrs ago would consider T05 hard and H3 concrete!!!

YEAH D09C,

Great for blocking (passive / active, passive aggressive !!!) great for flatter hits and drives, good spin but not the highest,Way more controllable than T80FX ( I’ve never used T05 or T05fx).
MOG, if you know someone that has D09C give it a try, it’s a (sort of) tacky rubber, but not as we know it Jim !!!

UpSideDownCarl · Nov 2, 2020

IB66 said:
Hi Carl & MOG !!!!

T05 has been around for a few years, and I think that it’s only over the past couple of years that ESN rubbers have reached similar hardnesses? when considering the type of top sheet.
So I would think that a ESN user from 10 yrs ago would consider T05 hard and H3 concrete!!!

YEAH D09C,

Great for blocking (passive / active, passive aggressive !!!) great for flatter hits and drives, good spin but not the highest,Way more controllable than T80FX ( I’ve never used T05 or T05fx).
MOG, if you know someone that has D09C give it a try, it’s a (sort of) tacky rubber, but not as we know it Jim !!!

I think MXP is harder than T05, isn't it?

What you may mean is that it is not until recently that ESN was able to make rubbers that perform almost as well or about as well as T05. But the hardness of rubbers was not something ESN had trouble making.

Also, in case anyone did not get it (I am 100% sure MOG is not someone who will miss it), the suggestion of D09c was.....a joke. Please note the title of a thread MOG made in the recent past that shall remain nameless.

Tango K · Nov 2, 2020

Let me tell MOG a real story about a real player in my club. He’s at the top of the club. His style is basically soft top-spin loop (or “slow” loop, whatever you call it) and hard hit. He doesn’t like the fact that his power shot isn’t as spinny as his slow one, and his loop against heavy semi-long backspin is weak. He keeps changing rubbers to find a spinner one and keeps telling me to block for him and gives him feedback.

Here is the thing. Every time he’s got a new rubber on, his loops are indeed a hell lot more spinny. So I tell him the truth, myself thinking the rubber is spinnier. One month down the line, every time, his loop is smashy again. So I thought I’d been developing so fast his spin now is like nothing for me.

But over the year I start realising what’s going on. When he’s got a new rubber on, he focuses a lot on getting the spin out of it so his loops are spinnier. But over time that focus wanes and he’s back to his old habit. Or maybe I’m wrong. Maybe the rubbers are dying off

If you overthink about things, the psychological effect (or “placebo” effect) is really really powerful, much more than you can imagine.

IB66 · Nov 3, 2020

UpSideDownCarl said:
I think MXP is harder than T05, isn't it?

What you may mean is that it is not until recently that ESN was able to make rubbers that perform almost as well or about as well as T05. But the hardness of rubbers was not something ESN had trouble making.

Also, in case anyone did not get it (I am 100% sure MOG is not someone who will miss it), the suggestion of D09c was.....a joke. Please note the title of a thread MOG made in the recent past that shall remain nameless.

MXP is about 47.5/48 degrees give or take, T05/25/64/80 are 49/50 degrees so not much in it really!!!
Surprisingly Tackiness D which has been around for 35+yrs has 51 degree sponge, harder sponge more tackiness, BTY knew it back then, but didn’t really follow up on the tacky rubbers with harder sponge!!! Maybe they got side tracked by the speed glue stuff?

YEAH D09C !!!!!!! If it ain’t mainly made of wood with some sort or handle attachment MOG just ain’t interested!!!

UpSideDownCarl · Nov 3, 2020

IB66 said:
MXP is about 47.5/48 degrees give or take, T05/25/64/80 are 49/50 degrees so not much in it really!!!
Surprisingly Tackiness D which has been around for 35+yrs has 51 degree sponge, harder sponge more tackiness, BTY knew it back then, but didn’t really follow up on the tacky rubbers with harder sponge!!! Maybe they got side tracked by the speed glue stuff?

YEAH D09C !!!!!!! If it ain’t mainly made of wood with some sort or handle attachment MOG just ain’t interested!!!

I know what you feel and the actual durometer of a sponge are not the same thing, but T05 feels much softer than MXP to me.

BTW: what durometer is T05 Hard? How about MXP 50 which they started making years ago as well, didn't they?

Der_Echte · Nov 3, 2020

MOG said:
I think these things both reflect I might be more suited to 05.

But everyone says 05 has less control and is more reactive to spin.

As much of an offensive dynamo Der_Echte strives to be, There is no way right ow I would say T05 would work better on my FH if it was between 05 or 05FX.

A totally different impact is needed to get that juice outta T05 and I do not have that impact on every stroke.

When one says control, it is such a goat-screw on the semantics on exactly or even generally what that means. We have slung the mud around on this puppy thousands of times and we still see flying pigs.

UpSideDownCarl · Nov 3, 2020

Der_Echte said:
As much of an offensive dynamo Der_Echte strives to be, There is no way right ow I would say T05 would work better on my FH if it was between 05 or 05FX.

A totally different impact is needed to get that juice outta T05 and I do not have that impact on every stroke.

When one says control, it is such a goat-screw on the semantics on exactly or even generally what that means. We have slung the mud around on this puppy thousands of times and we still see flying pigs.

Now this is a post for the record books. If you understand even half of what Der just said, you will pound that like button.

Der_Echte · Nov 3, 2020

... and I might piss off Carl by saying T05 feels like a hard rubber to me. But really, it is too hard for me and my kinf of impact right now, could only use it well on 2 different shots and I need a rubber to perform well on more than just two shots.

... or at least it is too hard for what I like to right now. Only can make good use of it on 10% of my blades on FH... now on BH... look out below - bombs away. I can handle medium sponged rubber there on BH... but even there I land a few more shots with soft dynamic rubber or soft old school ruber. (Think Nittaku Hammond)

Anyone thinking a softer rubber does not have a good top end can come over to California and eat some sald I prepare containing a quantity California mushrooms. Yeah, mushrooms or not, you would need to see my FH with such a rubber and you would give your salad to the rabbits.

UpSideDownCarl · Nov 3, 2020

Der_Echte said:
... and I might piss off Carl by saying T05 feels like a hard rubber to me. But really, it is too hard for me and my kinf of impact right now, could only use it well on 2 different shots and I need a rubber to perform well on more than just two shots.

... or at least it is too hard for what I like to right now. Only can make good use of it on 10% of my blades on FH... now on BH... look out below - bombs away. I can handle medium sponged rubber there on BH... but even there I land a few more shots with soft dynamic rubber or soft old school ruber. (Think Nittaku Hammond)

Anyone thinking a softer rubber does not have a good top end can come over to California and eat some sald I prepare containing a quantity California mushrooms. Yeah, mushrooms or not, you would need to see my FH with such a rubber and you would give your salad to the rabbits.

I like what a lot of people consider soft rubbers too. So I have nothing against what you are saying. I like how rubbers that are not too hard feel.

I just don't think of T05 as hard. It is certainly not in the category of the newer rubbers that are trying to be harder.

And then you have someone like NextLevel who, spent a lot of time, when he was training a lot, using rubbers that were pretty darn hard.

So, different strokes....

But how you said what you said about pigs flying and what the word control means....well, that was sheer genius.

And if someone cares to try and explain what the word control means, I would be very entertained.

Der_Echte · Nov 3, 2020

Thought Carl would like the imagery... must be old-man old McDonald on the farm day...

We got Puppies, Goats, Pigs, all in their element (and some pigs not in theirs) and mud in motion airbourne at a high rate of speed and splatter. All we need now is some good buttermilk and fried chicken. Oh - and the proverbial dead horse too.

MOG · Nov 3, 2020

So it seems I should go back to 05fx 1.9, then I will get my spin still. Active blocks might be a bit less bouncy against spin. Serve returns and serves might be a bit less twitchy.
But it will be harder to lift backspin.
Harder to spin fast incoming shots.
Harder to return hard hits into my fh.

Either that or I give the Rhyzer 43 on fh a genuine month on the Xiom Solo.

MOG · Nov 3, 2020

Der_Echte said:
Thought Carl would like the imagery... must be old-man old McDonald on the farm day...

We got Puppies, Goats, Pigs, all in their element (and some pigs not in theirs) and mud in motion airbourne at a high rate of speed and splatter. All we need now is some good buttermilk and fried chicken. Oh - and the proverbial dead horse too.

You got to love and understand the guy that flogs the dead horse!!

MOG · Nov 4, 2020

So last night I tried Rhyzer 43(2.0mm) and Tenergy 05fx (1.9mm).

Rhyzer really is rubbish, its just a beginners rubber or a slappers rubber, as soon as I do a slower spinnier type topspin, its so slow and shallow. It really is just trash.

I just think for those of us that like an arc on the ball there really only is Tenergy or Chinese rubbers.

05fx was so much better in everything other than slapping through spin and slapping in general.

Carl if I ever ask about a different ESN rubber on the forum again please give me 2 week automatic ban without trial!!

Stupid question about Tenergy 05!

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