Stupid question about Tenergy 05!

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From my point of view passive blocking is something where you mostly react and you usually do not have the time to spin forward/upwards or you do not feel comfortable enough to do so. You just try to bring back the ball as good as the situation allows it (heavy spin or fast shot). In active blocking you still have the time to redirect the ball and/or feel comfortable enough to give it spin.
Anyway, T05 for most players is defintely not the perfect rubber to do this, since it has high throw, has relatively low catapult and is quite spin sensitive.
Usually softer and less sensitive rubbers are more suitable for this purpose, but they do lack Power and spin for active shots
 
says toooooo much choice!!
says toooooo much choice!!
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IB66 did you try your R48 today.


Yeah, stuck it to a Donic Appelgren Dotec Control blade, on BH side, RazkaZ on the FH. So the blade makes it difficult to twiddle from BH to FH etc !!!
but I really quite liked the blade and the way it sat in my hand, very light and smooth edges good feel in general.

Again time was limited, as I also tried another rubber today, 1st time with medium pips!!!

As for the rubbers, the R48 was very similar to the R53, but far more usable for my skill level, very good spin, fast enough as well, good catapult. I have it in 2.0mm rather than max, felt good!!! Got to try some counter hitting / drives with it against top spin, I felt the R53 really excelled at this, so I’m hoping the R48 will as well. Blocking was also fast and crisp with R53, so again hoping R48 follows suit.
RazkaZ was also very nice on the FH side, maybe not quite as fast as the R48, but similar, not as much catapult because of the slightly tacky top sheet. Very good spin too.

Serving was spin loaded with both rubbers, did use the R48 for FH serves as well, R48 was slightly easier to spin up the serves. I’m looking forward to using this set up on Tuesday evening.

I have a feeling that I’m going to like the blade as well, the handle felt better the longer I used it. Good for ‘touchy feely’ feedback too !!!
(having said that one of best handles that I have used / liked, is the straight flared handle on my old TAMCA 5000’s, the handle is flared but not a concave flared handle, the sides are straight, suppose its more wedge shaped. Don’t see this type of handle very often, if at all. If you’ve seen a blade with a similar handle let me know!!!
 
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From my point of view passive blocking is something where you mostly react and you usually do not have the time to spin forward/upwards or you do not feel comfortable enough to do so. You just try to bring back the ball as good as the situation allows it (heavy spin or fast shot). In active blocking you still have the time to redirect the ball and/or feel comfortable enough to give it spin.
Anyway, T05 for most players is defintely not the perfect rubber to do this, since it has high throw, has relatively low catapult and is quite spin sensitive.
Usually softer and less sensitive rubbers are more suitable for this purpose, but they do lack Power and spin for active shots

If you are spinning forwards or upwards that is not a block. So basically what you are saying is a passive block is when you are out of place and are trying to bail yourself out?
 
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Passive is opposite of active , so I suppose passive block could be a block where you relax hand , very loose grip and then let the ball hit the blade, maybe move bat away from the ball slightly. Try and take off all the pace that’s on the ball, some might call it a soft block ??

So it is still a block but you are trying to slow the ball down, this requires good feeling, and it is still a very active motion to execute that shot correctly and nothing about it should be "passive" hence my original post. So, back to the point, yes, as a general rule, all highly offensive rubbers like T05 require good touch and skill to handle these types of shots.
 
says Spin and more spin.
says Spin and more spin.
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Forgive the video quality and shakiness, but this video gives a very valuable example of something:

If you watch this video, at first Persson and Eun are doing counterhits, then person loops and Eun blocks, then Eun loops and person blocks. If you watch the form of the counterhit, and then watch closely to the form of the block you will see:

1) Both Eun's and Persson's blocks, the form looks almost exactly the same as the form of the counterhit, but the stroke for the block is smaller and the contact is slightly different.
2) They are both actually actively guiding the ball while controlling the pace and spin from the loop.
3) This is actually a stroke, which, I think may be different from how some people conceive of blocking. But as your level improves, you start realizing more and more, that this is why higher level players, when they do block, can use it as a weapon. It is precisely not passive.

As you get to higher levels, blocking becomes more and more active despite what version of it you are talking about. At higher levels, if blocking is merely sticking the racket out and hoping (which is still actually an active process), you would likely be in serious trouble based on what the opponent could do with your "passive" shot.

Now, even if, the misunderstanding between the people saying passive block, and what Zyu is trying to explain is semantics, at least to some extent, it is worth understanding that, even the things people are conceiving of as passive blocks, take an actual active process to contact the ball just so that you dampen, contain or control the incoming power and redirect it and the ball how you choose.

And of course, if you are adding power to your opponent's power on a block, then those are not passive at all so, probably the people saying passive block don't mean those kinds of blocks.

And for anyone who wants to improve their skill at counterlooping, being able to block in the manner Persson and Eun are blocking, is definitely something that can help you move towards improving your counterlooping skills. If you can block the way those guys are blocking, there is only a few steps to make to turn that into baby counterloops and once you are doing those, the rest of that skill set starts falling into place quite quickly.
 
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Forgive the video quality and shakiness, but this video gives a very valuable example of something:

If you watch this video, at first Persson and Eun are doing counterhits, then person loops and Eun blocks, then Eun loops and person blocks. If you watch the form of the counterhit, and then watch closely to the form of the block you will see:

1) Both Eun's and Persson's blocks, the form looks almost exactly the same as the form of the counterhit, but the stroke for the block is smaller and the contact is slightly different.
2) They are both actually actively guiding the ball while controlling the pace and spin from the loop.
3) This is actually a stroke, which, I think may be different from how some people conceive of blocking. But as your level improves, you start realizing more and more, that this is why higher level players, when they do block, can use it as a weapon. It is precisely not passive.

As you get to higher levels, blocking becomes more and more active despite what version of it you are talking about. At higher levels, if blocking is merely sticking the racket out and hoping (which is still actually an active process), you would likely be in serious trouble based on what the opponent could do with your "passive" shot.

Now, even if, the misunderstanding between the people saying passive block, and what Zyu is trying to explain is semantics, at least to some extent, it is worth understanding that, even the things people are conceiving of as passive blocks, take an actual active process to contact the ball just so that you dampen, contain or control the incoming power and redirect it and the ball how you choose.

And of course, if you are adding power to your opponent's power on a block, then those are not passive at all so, probably the people saying passive block don't mean those kinds of blocks.

This post sums up well what I am getting at. This bit you wrote "if blocking is merely sticking the racket out and hoping" is what I think of when I hear the term passive block, and goes back to my point that no rubber geared towards looping and attack, like T05, is going to be ideal for such a shot.

I think Creek did a good job of identifying why T05 may give some people issues with blocking: "Anyway, T05 has high throw, has relatively low catapult (note: not sure I agree with this) and is quite spin sensitive." But again, all rubbers geared towards attack are going to be like this so if soft blocking is an emphasis in someone's game they should probably be looking at a different class of rubbers. Just the flip side to the coin of Nittaku G1 being raised - it may be less spin sensitive and thus better for flat/soft blocking but that also means it will generate less top end sped or spin as previously mentioned.
 
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But again, all rubbers geared towards attack are going to be like this so if soft blocking is an emphasis in someone's game they should probably be looking at a different class of rubbers. Just the flip side to the coin of Nittaku G1 being raised - it may be less spin sensitive and thus better for flat/soft blocking but that also means it will generate less top end sped or spin as previously mentioned.

Isn't this sort of obvious though? I always thought grip work both ways..
 
says toooooo much choice!!
says toooooo much choice!!
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This post sums up well what I am getting at. This bit you wrote "if blocking is merely sticking the racket out and hoping" is what I think of when I hear the term passive block, and goes back to my point that no rubber geared towards looping and attack, like T05, is going to be ideal for such a shot.

I think Creek did a good job of identifying why T05 may give some people issues with blocking: "Anyway, T05 has high throw, has relatively low catapult (note: not sure I agree with this) and is quite spin sensitive." But again, all rubbers geared towards attack are going to be like this so if soft blocking is an emphasis in someone's game they should probably be looking at a different class of rubbers. Just the flip side to the coin of Nittaku G1 being raised - it may be less spin sensitive and thus better for flat/soft blocking but that also means it will generate less top end sped or spin as previously mentioned.

So thinking on things a little more, it’s still awkward !!!!!!

Passive play, I would consider as - not trying to change the tactics, allowing your opponent to set the pace, style of play etc in effect it’s a choice of what you are going to do, which isn’t much !!!
opponent plays top spin, you play top spin, you let them dictate and go along with the flow. You don’t fight or try and change things,
You could then even describe an aggressive top spin match (where both players have the same tactics) as ‘passive aggressive’ because neither player changes things around.!!!:)

To a certain extent I think how a block is executed, is likely to be about the only stroke that could be described as active or passive!! Maybe !!!
All other strokes would be executed ‘actively’ but could be considered ‘tactically passive’ !!!

so a soft block, taking off the pace, chop block changing the spin, what Persson is playing (which seems to be described or considered as an active block) putting some top spin on the ball. All these should be considered ‘active’ I suppose.

a ‘passively played block’, would be one where you ‘consciously decide’ to do nothing other than use the pace on the ball and suitable racket angle to get the ball back over the net. No real movement of the racket, direction is set by your usual grip / racket orientation and however, you are actively thinking about the shot but the result is basically dictated by your opponents shot.
For me it’s more about how the block is executed and is movement of racket biased. (or lack of movement!!)
It’s also ‘tactically passive’ as well !!!

My personal perception is that ‘sticking your racket out and hoping’ is more a reflex ‘action’ and for me definitely isn’t passive. You can stick your racket out and hope in a number of different ways!!! :):):) Something I’m getting use to unfortunately!!!
 
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So: passive aggressive play:


Is that what you mean by passive aggressive play? :)

I am entertained. And it is creative. But I am reminded of a time in College when I wrote a paper on Samuel Becket's End Game. I read an awful lot of Literary Criticism on the play and, since End Game is sort of like a further development of themes from Waiting for Godot, I did not just stick to End Game and the paper I wrote may have been longer than both plays combined.

I read whole books that were about how, in waiting for Godot, in the first act there was one leaf on the tree, and in the second act, there were three and all the things that could mean. In the end, the thesis of my paper was that, part of what Becket was doing with his writing style was showing that, we humans, when given a paucity of information can interpret anything onto anything.

So.....passive aggressive table tennis by Ma Long and Ryu Seung Min. :)
 
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says Spin and more spin.
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Isn't this sort of obvious though? I always thought grip work both ways..

I would say, it should be. But then, how do you explain the person who is asking why he can't find a blade that loops like T05 and blocks like a 4 year old sheet of Sriver? Or, who wants a blade that is hard and fast on one side and soft and easy to control on the other?
 
says toooooo much choice!!
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So: passive aggressive play:


Is that what you mean by passive aggressive play? :)

I am entertained. And it is creative. But I am reminded of a time in College when I wrote a paper on Samuel Becket's End Game. I read an awful lot of Literary Criticism on the play and, since End Game is sort of like a further development of themes from Waiting for Godot, I did not just stick to End Game and the paper I wrote may have been longer than both plays combined.

I read whole books that were about how, in waiting for Godot, in the first act there was one leaf on the tree, and in the second act, there were three and all the things that could mean. In the end, the thesis of my paper was that, part of what Becket was doing with his writing style was showing that, we humans, when given a paucity of information can interpret anything onto anything.

So.....passive aggressive table tennis by Ma Long and Ryu Seung Min. :)

yeah, definitely passive aggressive!!!, and more sticking out your bat and hoping than you could shake at a cow!!;);)
 
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MOG

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I would say, it should be. But then, how do you explain the person who is asking why he can't find a blade that loops like T05 and blocks like a 4 year old sheet of Sriver? Or, who wants a blade that is hard and fast on one side and soft and easy to control on the other?

This is why I never believe a rubber review that says this rubber is insensitive to incoming spin, but very spinny on loops.
No it is not, it is insensitive to incoming spin and rubbish on loops and serves, which is why 90% of the world use tenergy. It is sensitive to spin and spinny.

You think??

;););)
 
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Couple more questions about T05 v T05fx!

I block very well with hurricane 3 neo, better than i do with 05fx, I also counter hit ot loop topspin better with it.
The hardness and grip seem to help me control the ball.

Most reviews say harder rubbers are better for this from most companies, so surely 05 will be better than 05 fx for me in this respect.
Also I drive better with 05fx in 1.9 and return serve better with 1.9 on all serves apart from long very loaded chop. (compared to max).
I think these things both reflect I might be more suited to 05.

But everyone says 05 has less control and is more reactive to spin.

My attacking friend reckons its easier to redirect the ball incoming and hit through opponents spin or resend their speed with 05 compared to 05fx.

Is this the general feeling.

Maybe as I like thinner sponges 05 in 1.9 might suit my fh!
 
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But everyone says 05 has less control and is more reactive to spin.

My attacking friend reckons its easier to redirect the ball incoming and hit through opponents spin or resend their speed with 05 compared to 05fx.

Is this the general feeling.

Maybe as I like thinner sponges 05 in 1.9 might suit my fh!

When I hear someone say that a rubber is spin sensitive and they could not control certain shots, I read that as: "they're just not good enough to control the rubber". Sure, T05 probably isn't the easiest rubber to block with since it is a high rebound, high speed and spin rubber, but if you are a capable player I don't really see why it would be hard. I doubt that anyone who has a really great block with other rubbers can't also do it well with T05. People who block poorly with T05 almost surely block poorly with any other rubber.

Some people find the FX versions to be easier to block with because they are softer and you get more flat impact from the blade.
 

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My point is everyone says H3 neo is more sensitive to incoming spin than most euro/jap rubbers, but I find the grip and hardness I guess allow me to control the incoming spin more on counters and pushes etc.
Most rubber reviewers say that the harder sponges even on euro/jap rubbers are easier for serve return etc as they are less bouncy.

If these factors are correct for 05 v 05fx I suspect I should use 05. Especially as I want to use my Xiom Solo as it makes my bh pips better for attacking and blocking.

My fh block is very active and is actually a mini counter topspin (very mini)
 

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Use 05. It won't make any difference but you will feel better about it.
 
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