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  1. Maximilian2016 is offline
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    #1

    Question A new era is born and the backhand topspin is dying?

    Hello,

    Something is happening in the table tennis world regarding the backhand topspin.
    If you watch the video below for example, they are not performing even a single backhand topspin during the entire game. We can see all other strokes but it seems that the backhand topspin is missing from their inventory. It seems that it has been completely replaced with that drive or whatever we want to call it where the player it just redirecting the ball back to the opponent by wiping the ball with a short stroke. When I say that the backhand topspin is dying I mean the Kreanga`s style backhand topspin where you actually hit the ball with power but more than that with a full swing of your arm and body.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D35BT5pEMjg
    So what is happening and what/why caused this behavior and the transition to this drive or whatever we want to call it?
    Maybe someone who is involved in the coaching process may give more details.

    Best regards.

  2. Shifu is offline
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    #2
    They are playing many backhand topspins. It's just that women tend to play closer to the table and that the new ball also favors close to table play.
    And topspins close to the table need a shorter motion because you have less time. There is plenty of spin on the ball.

    Even in the mens' game you can watch that, for example Harimoto. But there are still players who have big backhand winners like Jorgic.

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    #3
    I agree with Fabian. Plenty of backhand topspin played in this match.
    It's just that the movement is different. The orthodox backhand topspin with large swing, which started almost between your knees, evolved into a short, above the table, swing.

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    #4
    Maybe u’re obsessed to Kreanga’s backhand away from the table ) which was itself not very popular back then. It’s quite the contrary, backhand topspin is now a lot more aggressive than in the 20th century. If you watch ITTF flashback, the backhand opening during Wang Liqin-Ma Lin time focused a lot on placement to surprise the opponent. And the center of the table was covered by forehand. If you watch backhand of Wang Chuqin, Harimoto, Lin Gaoyuan, Lin Yunyu etc. there are lots of power/pace to kill and they tend to cover wider area.

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    #5
    yeah I see BH topspin there. not too many kill shots off the BH in womens TT.

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    #6

    A new era is born and the backhand topspin is dying?

    Hugo Calderano has a pretty big and nasty backhand swing (unless he is doing the weird two hand tennis stroke )

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    #7
    The new ball which carries less spin disincentives waiting on the ball and attempting to take a big swing to load it up to spin. As Fabian mentioned, the game has moved more towards quick countering hence the shorter strokes at the table, but, there is still plenty of topspin on the ball. It is just taken earlier and done more with the wrist and forearm rather than a fuller swing.

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    #8
    There does seem to be a trend to open up the game "Fan Zhendong's" style with a very minimal hand movement when brushing the ball and using the body to "lift" up the ball. And I'm not talking about the BH flick close to the table. There is many times that you see him kind of doing the BH loop but very little hand movement but mostly body and it seems to happen in womens game the most.

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    #9
    An outright loop kill of the backhand is a lot of power, and requires quite a lot of time (comparatively) to perform.

    You are watching a women's game:

    a) the power to outright kill the point from the backhand against a professional player is a heck of a lot of power, and most women simply don't have that.

    b) they are standing too close to the table to be doing that on the regular.

    The big backhand kills are slightly more frequent in men's games. But even then it's still pretty rare. Because if you know your opponent can outright kill the point from his backhand, why would you give them the opportunity to do it?

    Many male players are capable of the big backhand loop kills in today's game. If anything, the general backhand technique of the average professional player is better than in the good ol days. But because so many people are going to punish you for a soft, long ball to their backhand, gone are the days of 'oh i'm just going to block this to my opponent's backhand corner because he basically has no backhand to punish me with'.

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    Last edited by Hysteresis; 10-24-2020 at 02:39 PM.

  10. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Maximilian2016
    Hello,

    Something is happening in the table tennis world regarding the backhand topspin.
    If you watch the video below for example, they are not performing even a single backhand topspin during the entire game. We can see all other strokes but it seems that the backhand topspin is missing from their inventory. It seems that it has been completely replaced with that drive or whatever we want to call it where the player it just redirecting the ball back to the opponent by wiping the ball with a short stroke. When I say that the backhand topspin is dying I mean the Kreanga`s style backhand topspin where you actually hit the ball with power but more than that with a full swing of your arm and body.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D35BT5pEMjg
    So what is happening and what/why caused this behavior and the transition to this drive or whatever we want to call it?
    Maybe someone who is involved in the coaching process may give more details.

    Best regards.
    Here. You watch this match of men playing and there will be some big backhands away from the table:

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    #11
    Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl
    Here. You watch this match of men playing and there will be some big backhands away from the table:

    Calderano has an amazing backhand. I can't get over how many times he catches Fan Zhendong completely flatfooted in this match. All he can do is watch Hugo's backhands fly by as he's not even in position to reach them...

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    #12
    I agree, I support you.

  13. Baal is offline
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    #13
    Nobody but Kreanga ever approached backhand like Kreanga. It was why he was fun to watch. You wondered how the hell he did it and couldn't wait to see him do it again. But if you watch better players from his prime era, say, Waldner, Persson, Samsonov, Kong Linghui, you just won't see them hit those full swing backhands, never in the case of Waldner,rarely in the case of Persson (who had one of the greatest backhands ever). So the Kreanga BH can't be seen as a standard.

    Certainly the plastic ball has changed the game some (for the worse in terms of entertaining rallies), but offensive BH topspin is alive and well

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    Last edited by Baal; 02-04-2021 at 11:55 AM.

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    #14
    Other than the crazy wack of Kreanga, I understand OP is talking about less loop brushing, and more using incoming speed - driving the ball back.

    There are many reasons, in no particular order:
    1) different era, different styles
    2) FH dominated player vs allround vs BH dominated player etc
    3) Bigger Ball vs 40mm and 38mm of yesty years.

    I would say the biggest is technique has evolved. BH is more a in the table play stroke - superior compared to FH, and the moment you start stepping back, BH is more keeping the ball on the table, and you attack with FH more. The rallies are longer due to the big ball, so technique had to evolve to meet the requirement

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    #15
    As some others have pointed-out above, the BH topspin is still very prevalent; it's just that the stroke-mechanics have changed - A lot of players, like FZD, Liam Pitchford, favour the more compact stroke... Still, I've seen players like Patrick Franziska, Hugo Calderano, and occasionally, even Timo Boll playing with a larger swing..

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    #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Tango K
    Maybe u’re obsessed to Kreanga’s backhand away from the table ) which was itself not very popular back then. It’s quite the contrary, backhand topspin is now a lot more aggressive than in the 20th century. If you watch ITTF flashback, the backhand opening during Wang Liqin-Ma Lin time focused a lot on placement to surprise the opponent. And the center of the table was covered by forehand. If you watch backhand of Wang Chuqin, Harimoto, Lin Gaoyuan, Lin Yunyu etc. there are lots of power/pace to kill and they tend to cover wider area.

    Yup i agree with this! The stroke is not as big as Kreanga's but there are still lots of bh topspin strokes. Also, the ball nowadays do not need that much swing anyways.

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    #17
    Goon Squad had better activate on authority of no-cause emergency deployment and tell that rotten, no-good for nothing BH-Man over at MyTT he should cease and desist ASAP.

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    #18
    Well, I really don't know why people are usually discussing top players only.
    When I look how the youngsters in my club are training I know that the BH top spin will not die soon.

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    #19

    My observation
    is that effect of the 40 mm ball and then plastic has meant that its more difficult for pros to make power. The result is that on both Fh and BH the ball is being played earlier in order to maintain pressure.
    And now a natural result of that is the new generation of players have discovered that maintaining agression is easier and more efficient staying close to the table with shorter strokes.
    Pitchford is one who started out his career with a tremendous early backhand rip but had a weakness on the fh side where he tended to drift off the table. He has mended that by playing far more fh counters off the the bounce. It is almost a supercharged version of the Klampar style which some of us remember.



    Last edited by pingpongpaddy; 02-05-2021 at 06:17 PM.
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    #20
    To be fair, banana flicks are much common nowadays because you can lift a polyball easier having backspin.

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