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    1. Top | #1
      mocker88 is offline
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      TTD Member Country: Sweden

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      Chinese rubbers and fitting blades on a budget

      I'm playing with Chinese rubbers on forehand since four years (when I took table tennis up again). These years has been a long hunt for the perfect match, rubber to blade. And as a twist, I like to have a softer tensor-like rubber on my backhand.

      I try to play as offensive as I can, brush looping all the way. Very spin oriented game all over. And I'm also trying not to go for the more expensive products, and therefore try to find the grains of gold in the cheaper area.

      I'm just curious about other players, playing in a similar way as myself, what perfection you have reached regarding rubber vs blade vs price.

    2. Top | #2
      zyu81 is offline
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      "Offensive as I can, brush looping all the way" kind of sounds like something a low level player would say, so skill level is a good starting point to determine equipment choice. Listing an actual budget number and stating which equipment you have liked and disliked in the past would also be useful.

    3. Top | #3
      mocker88 is offline
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      TTD Member Country: Sweden

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      Quote Originally Posted by zyu81 View Post
      "Offensive as I can, brush looping all the way" kind of sounds like something a low level player would say, so skill level is a good starting point to determine equipment choice. Listing an actual budget number and stating which equipment you have liked and disliked in the past would also be useful.
      Well. I can agree there. I'm no high level player, but not that low either. I just believe that if I can control the game as much as I can I would benefit from this, and my style is offensive mostly brush looping when able to get in the position to do so. It demands a lot of work, but it's the most fun way to play this game I think.

      I'm quite comfortable in where my search for what blade and rubber have taken me, but there aren't so many threads handling this question so I thought that I throw it out and see what other players have achieved in their "search"

      Right now I'm using two of the same blade (Yinhe MC-4 carbon blade). On the first setup I have 729 Battle II Provincial 2.1mm 40 deg (forehand) and Andro Hexer Grip SFX 1.9mm (backhand). My other setup is similar with DHS Hurricane 3 NEO 2.15mm 41 deg (forehand) and Andro rasanter R37 2.0mm (backhand). Softer rubber helps my not so excellent backhand technique

    4. Top | #4
      Attitude is offline
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      Well i guess you cant go much lower with your budget as smth like you already use.
      Maybe with xiom on your backhand instead of andro. Xiom Vega Pro was my choice for example. And as long as you dont play the national Version on your fh you should be fine here too. Maybe you could go with smth like Yinhe Big Dipper, which would be a bit lower in the price range.

      But that is actually all i can think off
      The moment you go even lower with the price you will have serious quality issues.

    5. Top | #5
      Aurelian Mihai is offline
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      Since last november I also play with tacky rubbers on my forehand. I played with the classic DHS Hurricane 3, then with Neo 3.

      On my backhand I was using normal ESN rubbers like Rakza X and TSP Ventus Soft (this one suited me better).

      But now I decided to go with chinese rubbers even on my backhand - Palio Ak47 Red which is a tensor rubber, and my game started again to improve. I'm still at begginer level, I started 2 years ago from NOOB level and I am also a penholder

      On my backup rubber I have a Friendship Bloom Power 47° which seems even better than Neo 3 but is also less tolerant to errors: very low throw angle, very hard sponge, you always need to start hitting from bellow the ball, even for the smashes.

      Here I put some points from my last session https://youtu.be/EpPIj5u6OpY

      Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk

    6. Top | #6
      IB66 is offline
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      Hi,

      If you're already using Chinese manufacturer's blades, with Chinese rubbers on FH, then the only cost saving to be made is with the BH rubbers, As Attitude has said.

      DHS are now making 37 degree sponge variations of H3 / H3 Neo etc which they market as 'Backhand' rubbers.
      I've got the provincial version of H3 Neo 37 degree. which is around 45 to 50 Euro, the standard H3 or H3 Neo would be cheaper, but I haven't found it yet!! (European websites)

      For Reference R37, is 37 degree ESN / German sponge hardness (Shore O scale).

      DHS and Butterfly use Shore A scale, a DHS rubber with a similar sponge hardness to R37 would be listed at about 27 / 28 degree on the scale they use.

      T05 is 36 degree Shore A (50 degree Shore O)

      There must be some softer sponge Chinese rubbers out there somewhere!!!

    7. Top | #7
      mocker88 is offline
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      TTD Member Country: Sweden

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      Blade Yinhe MC-4
      Forehand Rubber Yinhe Moon Pro Hard
      Backhand Rubber TSP Ventus Soft, Black, 1.8mm

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      Quote Originally Posted by Attitude View Post
      Well i guess you cant go much lower with your budget as smth like you already use.
      Maybe with xiom on your backhand instead of andro. Xiom Vega Pro was my choice for example. And as long as you dont play the national Version on your fh you should be fine here too. Maybe you could go with smth like Yinhe Big Dipper, which would be a bit lower in the price range.

      But that is actually all i can think off
      The moment you go even lower with the price you will have serious quality issues.
      The price isn't that important. I'm just after to get the most quality possible out of my money. I'm not so eager to go Dignics or Tenergy. There must be an alternative that could work for under half the price, or perhaps I'm wrong and the Butterflies are worth the price

      I've tried a lot of rubbers, but everything's so individual. But here are some of my thoughts, beginning with forehand. My needs are a blade that's quite stiff to get the most out of a sticky Chinese rubber with a quite hard sponge. A softer sponge doesn't react efficently to my strokes, and there's no kick when looping.

      Rubbers that work for me are:
      DHS H3N 39-41 deg (good speed and spin but it lacks a bit of control. Harder sponge makes harder hits more nice)
      729 Battle II Provincial 2.1mm, 40 deg (Just tried this one out. Feels like H3N but more control and a more curvy arc)
      Yinhe Big Dipper 38-39 deg (Like the above rubbers, but not quite as much spin and there's a little more control. Always playable)
      Yinhe Moon Pro Hard (Something like Big Dipper, but a bit faster and a lower throw)
      DHS NEO Skyline TG2 39 deg (I haven't tested the harder sponges. This is like a slower H3N, but still fits my play really well)

      Rubbers that wasn't really in my flavor:
      Yinhe Big Dipper 40 deg (Harder sponge, but that's it. Just disn't get the effect out of this one)
      Yinhe Moon Pro Medium (Really a different rubber than the Hard version. The hard was domed out of the package, and this one just mushy)
      DHS H3N 38 deg (Really just to soft. Nothing happens)
      Yinhe Big Dipper IV 38 deg (Same top sheet as original BD, but slower and not that much spin so a disappointment)
      DHS GoldArc 8 47,5 deg (Not my kind of rubber. More euro feeling, but doesn't work anywhere for me)
      Nittaku Zieger PK50 (A disaster on my carbon blade, but works better on wood. I feel that the top sheet is a bit too soft though)
      DHS Hurricane 8 (Tried this in different hardnesses, but the sponge doesn't appeal to me. And it's quite heavy)
      Globe 999 40 deg (This was actually quite pleasant, but a tad too slow. The weight was really nice. 41g cut to my blade)

      About backhand. I need a more forgiving rubber with good grip. A couple of years ago I started out with 729 Focus III Snipe and DHS TinArc 3. These are easy, linear rubbers to play with. Quite similar to each other. F3S was much lighter and I think this is the better rubber of these two. I felt that I lacked some spin, so I tried on Yasaka Rigan, Tibhar Aurus Sound and Yasaka Rakza 7 Soft. I felt that Rakza 7 Soft was the nicest rubber here, but it felt a bit heavy in some way. I searched further, finding TSP and their Ventus Soft, Ventus Spin and Regalis Red. The Regalis was too fast and no spin. The Ventus Spin was quite nice, but the Soft version in 1.8mm suited me quite fine. Good spin, soft sponge and light weight. I could have stopped there but I thought I should try out some Andro rubbers. The Rasanter R37 2.0mm gave me another dimension I think. Where the TSP Ventus Soft was a bit bouncy, The Rasanter R37 was a bit "dead" on passive blocks. This suits me fine, and active blocks gives quite good speed and good placement capabilities. After this I also tried Andro Hexer Grip SFX. This one has a 40 deg sponge, so a little harder again. But it's a bit more grippy than Rasanter R37, so it fits my game perhaps even better with a spin oriented game and giving good control.

      Perhaps I'm not done here. I might try out some Xiom in the nearest future

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      Aurelian Mihai (10-27-2020)

    9. Top | #8
      mocker88 is offline
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      TTD Member Country: Sweden

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      Quote Originally Posted by IB66 View Post
      Hi,

      If you're already using Chinese manufacturer's blades, with Chinese rubbers on FH, then the only cost saving to be made is with the BH rubbers, As Attitude has said.

      DHS are now making 37 degree sponge variations of H3 / H3 Neo etc which they market as 'Backhand' rubbers.
      I've got the provincial version of H3 Neo 37 degree. which is around 45 to 50 Euro, the standard H3 or H3 Neo would be cheaper, but I haven't found it yet!! (European websites)

      For Reference R37, is 37 degree ESN / German sponge hardness (Shore O scale).

      DHS and Butterfly use Shore A scale, a DHS rubber with a similar sponge hardness to R37 would be listed at about 27 / 28 degree on the scale they use.

      T05 is 36 degree Shore A (50 degree Shore O)

      There must be some softer sponge Chinese rubbers out there somewhere!!!
      Yep. It doesn't get any cheaper than a Yinhe blade for €20 and Chinese rubbers for €20 each, retaining good playing quality. The thing is probably that I've become a bit anti-Butterfly mainly because of the price difference. Many players are led into the Tenergy and Dignics line, because they don't know of other options. I can just see this in our club. Trainers that think that just one brand and model is the best, but I think... All players are different and almost noone plays just like the other one. You shouldn't throw Tenergy 05 onto the blade of a kid that's been playing for 1-2 years...

      Yes I have seen the 37 deg H3 out there. I tried the 38 deg NEO commercial version, and even tested on my backhand. But I need that little "free kick" I get from tensors, sorry to say. My technique is not good enough.

    10. Top | #9
      mocker88 is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Aurelian Mihai View Post
      Since last november I also play with tacky rubbers on my forehand. I played with the classic DHS Hurricane 3, then with Neo 3.

      On my backhand I was using normal ESN rubbers like Rakza X and TSP Ventus Soft (this one suited me better).

      But now I decided to go with chinese rubbers even on my backhand - Palio Ak47 Red which is a tensor rubber, and my game started again to improve. I'm still at begginer level, I started 2 years ago from NOOB level and I am also a penholder

      On my backup rubber I have a Friendship Bloom Power 47° which seems even better than Neo 3 but is also less tolerant to errors: very low throw angle, very hard sponge, you always need to start hitting from bellow the ball, even for the smashes.

      Here I put some points from my last session https://youtu.be/EpPIj5u6OpY

      Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk
      Nice video I can see that you have nice spin in your Bloom Power. I've tried Bloom Speed 45 deg, but that one felt a bit slower, and numb when I compare it to H3N for example. But Bloom Power should be a better rubber in many ways what I understand.

    11. Top | #10
      mocker88 is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by IB66 View Post
      Hi,

      If you're already using Chinese manufacturer's blades, with Chinese rubbers on FH, then the only cost saving to be made is with the BH rubbers, As Attitude has said.

      DHS are now making 37 degree sponge variations of H3 / H3 Neo etc which they market as 'Backhand' rubbers.
      I've got the provincial version of H3 Neo 37 degree. which is around 45 to 50 Euro, the standard H3 or H3 Neo would be cheaper, but I haven't found it yet!! (European websites)

      For Reference R37, is 37 degree ESN / German sponge hardness (Shore O scale).

      DHS and Butterfly use Shore A scale, a DHS rubber with a similar sponge hardness to R37 would be listed at about 27 / 28 degree on the scale they use.

      T05 is 36 degree Shore A (50 degree Shore O)

      There must be some softer sponge Chinese rubbers out there somewhere!!!
      So... Interesting. Butterfly Dignics 05 is 40 deg Shore A, and Andro Rasanter R53 is 53 deg Shore O. Then these two sponges should be the same hardeness?

    12. Top | #11
      Aurelian Mihai is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by mocker88 View Post
      Nice video I can see that you have nice spin in your Bloom Power. I've tried Bloom Speed 45 deg, but that one felt a bit slower, and numb when I compare it to H3N for example. But Bloom Power should be a better rubber in many ways what I understand.
      Bloom Power is a monster, it was my first session with it, I lost almost every match but I got a bit user to it. I have a lot of bad habits, such as hitting instead of looping, you can hit with it on the same principle: never start your stroke above the level of the incoming ball, otherwise it will go straight into the net. Looping is very easy, you don't need a lot of power from the ground to develop fast & spinny loops/drives.

      Blocking was awful, I was trying a kind of passive block and every time I thrown the ball over the table or, even worse, the ball didn't reached the net. Then I tried active blocking - counter looping and it worked.

      Conclusion: bloom power is fast and even easy to use, but you always need to be active, every shot needs to start below the ball height, you can easily do short receives and powerfull spinny loops and even flat hits.

      Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk

    13. Top | #12
      Kuba Hajto is online now
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      scrubs who can't make minor
      adjustments to their stroke.
       
      Senior TTD Member Country: Europe

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      Blade A platinum special cardboard Viscaria wannabe clone
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      Quote Originally Posted by mocker88 View Post
      So... Interesting. Butterfly Dignics 05 is 40 deg Shore A, and Andro Rasanter R53 is 53 deg Shore O. Then these two sponges should be the same hardeness?
      That's not quite how it works. ESN is not exactly Shore O. I have Shore A durometer and measured some ESN and Chinese rubbers.

      If you want a very good forehand tacky rubber go for Battle 2 + Seamoon or another booster of choice. Alongside Vega China, those are by far my favorite rubbers (I ended up buying 3 or Battle 2, I like it a bit more than Vega China, prefer purple sponge to orange sponge)

      There more to rubber hardness than sponge itself. The top sheet affects the feel of the rubber as much as the sponge does.

    14. Top | #13
      mocker88 is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Kuba Hajto View Post
      That's not quite how it works. ESN is not exactly Shore O. I have Shore A durometer and measured some ESN and Chinese rubbers.

      If you want a very good forehand tacky rubber go for Battle 2 + Seamoon or another booster of choice. Alongside Vega China, those are by far my favorite rubbers (I ended up buying 3 or Battle 2, I like it a bit more than Vega China, prefer purple sponge to orange sponge)

      There more to rubber hardness than sponge itself. The top sheet affects the feel of the rubber as much as the sponge does.
      Ok. Thank you. Then it's not an exact science then?

      Yeah. I got the Battle II Provincial, but I don't user booster for better or worse I think it works fine for me as it is.

      Yes. If the top sheet is softer, like the Nittaku Zieger PK50, it gives a totally different feel and effect.

    15. Top | #14
      mocker88 is offline
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      I'd wish TTD would do a proper thorough test with many Chinese type of rubbers, and play with them as they should be played with. You don't use the same technique with Dignics as you do with H3N, so they probably should hire a couple of Chinese type of players to do the testing

    16. Top | #15
      Aurelian Mihai is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by mocker88 View Post
      I'd wish TTD would do a proper thorough test with many Chinese type of rubbers, and play with them as they should be played with. You don't use the same technique with Dignics as you do with H3N, so they probably should hire a couple of Chinese type of players to do the testing
      The review they made with the comparison between commercial H3 Neo and Dignics 09C was hilarious.

      Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk

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    18. Top | #16
      Kuba Hajto is online now
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      Senior TTD Member Country: Europe

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      Quote Originally Posted by mocker88 View Post
      I'd wish TTD would do a proper thorough test with many Chinese type of rubbers, and play with them as they should be played with. You don't use the same technique with Dignics as you do with H3N, so they probably should hire a couple of Chinese type of players to do the testing
      Opinion on the rubber will vary greatly depending on the style, skill and preference. There are rubbers which will appeal to a large crowd, there are rubbers which will be loved by small group of people. That's why I think most of the reviews are pointless. I find only comparison-based reviews worthy. Nowadays its easy enough to find a clubmate who will lend you a setup for a few minutes. The only opinion that should matter to you is your own, it's also worth applying some common sense to that though. Sometimes people go for absolute rocket launchers which are by far too fast for them. They might lose because of that, but if playing with that equipment makes them feel good, then where is the harm. I think it is not emphasized that the main role of the equipment is to make the user feel good and confident. The average human can make more power through muscle than any thick carbon layer can provide (and there is me who actually prefers how composite blade feels). The same applies to rubbers.

      Back on topic. Try Vega China. Feels very similar to Hurricane 3 Neo, but with more speed in the hitting department, it has distinct pop when you flat hit with it.

    19. Top | #17
      mocker88 is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Kuba Hajto View Post
      Opinion on the rubber will vary greatly depending on the style, skill and preference. There are rubbers which will appeal to a large crowd, there are rubbers which will be loved by small group of people. That's why I think most of the reviews are pointless. I find only comparison-based reviews worthy. Nowadays its easy enough to find a clubmate who will lend you a setup for a few minutes. The only opinion that should matter to you is your own, it's also worth applying some common sense to that though. Sometimes people go for absolute rocket launchers which are by far too fast for them. They might lose because of that, but if playing with that equipment makes them feel good, then where is the harm. I think it is not emphasized that the main role of the equipment is to make the user feel good and confident. The average human can make more power through muscle than any thick carbon layer can provide (and there is me who actually prefers how composite blade feels). The same applies to rubbers.

      Back on topic. Try Vega China. Feels very similar to Hurricane 3 Neo, but with more speed in the hitting department, it has distinct pop when you flat hit with it.
      Yes. You are right. Everything depends on how you play the game, and everyone is different

      I might try Vega China. I'm checking revspin.net, and there are two Vega China. One VH and one VM. Is this some mistake, or what version do you recommend?

    20. Top | #18
      Kuba Hajto is online now
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      Senior TTD Member Country: Europe

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      Quote Originally Posted by mocker88 View Post
      Yes. You are right. Everything depends on how you play the game, and everyone is different

      I might try Vega China. I'm checking revspin.net, and there are two Vega China. One VH and one VM. Is this some mistake, or what version do you recommend?
      Only VM is acquirable at this point.

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