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    1. Top | #41
      CLV is offline
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      Had my first practice today. Setting is less then ideal. Been playing in a living room on an old table with bad lights coz of covid.

      And boy it didn't go as planned. Had some difficulties adapting to the pips. Lots of balls in the net when driving. Lots of balls over the table when smashing. Pushes gave me mixed feelings. Sometimes the ball was a little high. But I could also do some very agressive almost attacking ones.
      Blocking was a blast. Could also do some agressive blocks.

      Timing also feels different. When you're late, it's always a ball in the net. And also I need to adjust my stroke and make it shorter and more explosive , i think.

      I think I will need some time adjusting. But it was a fun experiment. Will need to try in good playing conditions though.

    2. Top | #42
      Lula is offline
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      Post a video.

    3. Top | #43
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      It is actually different. Unlike switching from one inverted to another, pimples makes a real difference. The simplest way I can say it is short pips send the ball where your bat points it. So you can never swing over the top of a ball like you do with inverted. It will hit the table on your own side. The range of bat angle is smaller and more open. That is the biggest change. Second to that is you really want to take the ball early. Top of the bounce or rising.

      Don't try to play points right off. Just hit with someone and play around with the timing and bat angle, it won't take you so long to feel the changes.

    4. Top | #44
      pingpongpaddy is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Brs View Post
      It is actually different. Unlike switching from one inverted to another, pimples makes a real difference. The simplest way I can say it is short pips send the ball where your bat points it. So you can never swing over the top of a ball like you do with inverted. It will hit the table on your own side. The range of bat angle is smaller and more open. That is the biggest change. Second to that is you really want to take the ball early. Top of the bounce or rising.

      Don't try to play points right off. Just hit with someone and play around with the timing and bat angle, it won't take you so long to feel the changes.
      sorry i must disagree with this. while you can play flat shots with sp, of course you can close the racket angle and brush over the ball with sp. it just requires a bit more feeling.
      Ito is a good example often you will see hit completely flat balls with her fh (reverse) and play fast topspin with her backhand. HZW is another example he combines a super flat punch block trad bh with a classic sp fh, all done with super spin pips
      ppp

      bh
      spinpips chop2
      yinhe ayous wood 1 ply
      fh
      max moristo sp

    5. Top | #45
      lodro is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by pingpongpaddy View Post
      sorry i must disagree with this. while you can play flat shots with sp, of course you can close the racket angle and brush over the ball with sp. it just requires a bit more feeling.
      Ito is a good example often you will see hit completely flat balls with her fh (reverse) and play fast topspin with her backhand. HZW is another example he combines a super flat punch block trad bh with a classic sp fh, all done with super spin pips
      absolutely !!! I support you word for word. !!

      One does not even need to have an expensive sp, or be Mima. I can brush over the top of the ball and all i got is a RITC 802 - 40 on my BH . I made this blade up after seeing Mima in action, just for a laugh, the blade a cheap Sanwei J7 all wood.

      I can't help thinking sometimes that people believe things can not be done unless it involves $ 1000 in gadgets
      Last edited by lodro; 11-25-2020 at 11:32 PM.

    6. Top | #46
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      Listen, the guy I am posting for is not HZW or Ito Mima. He bought short pips for the first time, played with them once, and said he put a lot of balls in the net.

      If you seriously think he does not need to change his bat angle from using inverted then your pips advice is pretty suspect, imo.

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      MOG (11-26-2020)

    8. Top | #47
      lodro is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Brs View Post
      Listen, the guy I am posting for is not HZW or Ito Mima. He bought short pips for the first time, played with them once, and said he put a lot of balls in the net.

      If you seriously think he does not need to change his bat angle from using inverted then your pips advice is pretty suspect, imo.

      Is not bat-angle something we constantly have to adjust from shot to shot ? Every shot that comes over the net towards us can be lower or higher, faster or slower , more spin or less spin etc etc so every time we do have to make these adjustments and so we will also adjust from inverted fh to sp bh ?????

    9. Top | #48
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      You will have to adjust the technique to play with short pips. This is explained in great detail (with English subtitles) in these excellent YouTube videos:
      https://youtu.be/ewCYaUiaTxc
      and
      https://youtu.be/YS_Cms-_M28
      and there are several other YouTube videos.
      Key point is that you need to not rely on a high throw angle with the pips.
      I found that to get the forehand stroke I had to practice with a robot for quite some time.
      So twiddling with one side pips does require a lot of practice (double the number of strokes).
      "EJ" ... Sanwei Fextra, Yinhe [Pro 5-W, PD437, Pro Feeling, T6s, T7s, 970xxA], Nittaku Fastarc G1/Nittaku Moristo SP, Yasaka Rakza PO/7(Soft), DHS HNeo3/Yinhe Pluto, Yinhe Sun/Uranus Pro Medium, ...

    10. Top | #49
      lodro is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by ejprinz View Post
      You will have to adjust the technique to play with short pips. This is explained in great detail (with English subtitles) in these excellent YouTube videos:
      https://youtu.be/ewCYaUiaTxc
      and
      https://youtu.be/YS_Cms-_M28
      and there are several other YouTube videos.
      Key point is that you need to not rely on a high throw angle with the pips.
      I found that to get the forehand stroke I had to practice with a robot for quite some time.
      So twiddling with one side pips does require a lot of practice (double the number of strokes).
      Matty Falck twiddles right after the serve.
      Mima does not twiddle
      FZD and Ma Long might sometimes twiddle

    11. Top | #50
      ejprinz is offline
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      Mattias Falck just twiddles to be able to use the high spin rubber on the forehand for the serve, and then go back to having the high spin rubber on the backhand.
      I think most attacking players who do short pips backhand don't twiddle.
      Also, with the spinny short pips I can do pretty good backhand serves (very controlled with spin) so no need to twiddle.

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      pingpongpaddy (11-26-2020)

    13. Top | #51
      Lula is offline
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      You guys are talking about different things i believe. It is possible to Do an opening loop With a somewhat closer racket angle but against topspin When smashing you need a more open angle compared to inverted. You want to smash, Not loop as much as possible.

    14. Top | #52
      pingpongpaddy is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Brs View Post
      Listen, the guy I am posting for is not HZW or Ito Mima. He bought short pips for the first time, played with them once, and said he put a lot of balls in the net.

      If you seriously think he does not need to change his bat angle from using inverted then your pips advice is pretty suspect, imo.
      i dont think such a thing. I do think after playing with both kinds of rubber to good effect for 50+ years that the information i gave should be quite helpful to your guy going forward
      There is an adjustment to be made but with practice your guy can acquire the feeling and timing to close the racket angle and brush the ball effectively. of course flat contacts can still be useful as indeed they are with reverse as well
      Last edited by pingpongpaddy; 11-26-2020 at 09:36 AM.

    15. Top | #53
      CLV is offline
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      Hey guys, thanks for the info en the help. There is no need to start an argument. I think both styles are viable. I just wanted to share my experiences while going through the process of learning a new way of playing. It's kinda weird for me to get this feeling. I started playing again last year after 20 years of not playing (i played as a kid from 6 -13) and it felt like riding a bike. I needed to adjust a little bit, but al the basics were still in my muscle memory.

      Now I'm trying something different and I need to totally adjust my approach to the game. For me it was weird to get balls in the net and balls not landing on the table because there isn't enough spin on the at the same time. I really need to adjust my way of playing. But I willing to try to do this.

      I will try to get some footage in the future, but for now I don't have access to a good way of filming myself while playing.

      The only thing I don't really know: is it worth it to try this style of playing. I'll need to invest a considerable amount of time to learn this and get to the level I'm playing at with inverted. But will it take me further in the long run. There is no way of knowing. How did other short pip players approach this?

    16. Top | #54
      pingpongpaddy is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by CLV View Post
      Hey guys, thanks for the info en the help. There is no need to start an argument. I think both styles are viable. I just wanted to share my experiences while going through the process of learning a new way of playing. It's kinda weird for me to get this feeling. I started playing again last year after 20 years of not playing (i played as a kid from 6 -13) and it felt like riding a bike. I needed to adjust a little bit, but al the basics were still in my muscle memory.

      Now I'm trying something different and I need to totally adjust my approach to the game. For me it was weird to get balls in the net and balls not landing on the table because there isn't enough spin on the at the same time. I really need to adjust my way of playing. But I willing to try to do this.

      I will try to get some footage in the future, but for now I don't have access to a good way of filming myself while playing.

      The only thing I don't really know: is it worth it to try this style of playing. I'll need to invest a considerable amount of time to learn this and get to the level I'm playing at with inverted. But will it take me further in the long run. There is no way of knowing. How did other short pip players approach this?
      i played reverse both sides in tournaments for some time, until i analysed my style and physical qualities. I was small with quick reflexes and suited to playing close to the table Once i changed to sp everything fell into place for me and I enjoyed good success. After 50+ years looking back I would say its that the journey itself has been just as satisfying as the eventual success.
      i think that if you are suited to playing mid distance then sp is less likely to be successful for you. If you are comfortable close up then its a viable option.
      good luck

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    18. Top | #55
      TTOmar is offline
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      I recently begin to use Keiler 1.8 mm and Jupiter 38 on Fextra Blade and tried the twiddle technique. Oh my Keiler is both fast and very deceptive even my slow drop shots deceive my opponent easily when twiddle the pips to forehand, but ofc it is not easy as a spinny short pips.

    19. Top | #56
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      For me it was definitely worth going to short pips backhand. First, I didn't have a good backhand topspin. Second, I wanted to stay at the table due to my age when playing with folks 40 years younger. Third, I can use the less spin-sensitive short pips to return serves and to "roll" weak pushes. I tried different pips (some can do more spin than others at the expense of being more sensitive to incoming spin), and different sponges and blades, and I am still experimenting. I think I will stick to the short pips backhand due to its advantages for me.
      I found that a slower (non-carbon) blade works better for me.

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    21. Top | #57
      MOG is offline
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      I switched to Keiler SP/Mid pips on bh after experimenting with several short pips, out of boredom with same results against same people and because I return serve better with them. It also makes the game more interesting IMO as you get older, different challenges for opponent and myself.

      It has made a massive difference to me and I am actually improving at the moment after about 10 to 15 years of not really improving. Now I am getting very aggressive and positive on bh return with pips and it is making a considerable difference to my game, both in results and enjoyment.

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    23. Top | #58
      CLV is offline
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      Guys, i've been doing qome more short pip training. And i'm really improving. Basic strokes are much better. Can even do some nasty bh flicks and openers with it.

      Really like how easy it is to play with the timing. I can play very close to the bounce to make it difficult for opponent. Also blocks are difficult to return for them. I still have some issues with closing the batangle too much wheb reacting to fast shots.

      I even orderd some medium pips in 1.5 mm. A friendship 653. So see if i like it better to play with an even more disruptive rubber. My coach told me it could be a good choice for me. But he wasn't sure if i could be a player to play a disruptive game. Usually i play lots of reallies and need them to get into the mood and play my best game. So I'm gonna give it a go

      Lately i really like the playstyle of luka mledanovic. I know he plays frictionless anti. Hoping i can turn a medium pimple into something similar. Really like how he makes it diffucult for opponents and how he is also a good offensive player.

    24. Top | #59
      pingpongpaddy is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by CLV View Post
      Guys, i've been doing qome more short pip training. And i'm really improving. Basic strokes are much better. Can even do some nasty bh flicks and openers with it.

      Really like how easy it is to play with the timing. I can play very close to the bounce to make it difficult for opponent. Also blocks are difficult to return for them. I still have some issues with closing the batangle too much wheb reacting to fast shots.

      I even orderd some medium pips in 1.5 mm. A friendship 653. So see if i like it better to play with an even more disruptive rubber. My coach told me it could be a good choice for me. But he wasn't sure if i could be a player to play a disruptive game. Usually i play lots of reallies and need them to get into the mood and play my best game. So I'm gonna give it a go

      Lately i really like the playstyle of luka mledanovic. I know he plays frictionless anti. Hoping i can turn a medium pimple into something similar. Really like how he makes it diffucult for opponents and how he is also a good offensive player.
      IMHO its important to not emphasize disruption too much. There can be a tendency to expect opponents to make errors when its really better to work for normal winning opportunities. Let the disruption just be something that opponent deals with rather than something you concentrate on. When you play stronger players they understand the technical side of playing against sp, mp and lp and then you'll find yourself exposed if you rely too much on the rubber. In the black & black era post 1977 I played for 18 months with tackiness and LP with a lot of success by twiddling but found that stronger players could give me problems by playing light spin to my lp side.
      To be an effective combo player requires twice the practice than for normal both sides. BTW i would class sp as normal and mp and lp as disruptive.
      anyway good luck

    25. Top | #60
      CLV is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by pingpongpaddy View Post
      IMHO its important to not emphasize disruption too much. There can be a tendency to expect opponents to make errors when its really better to work for normal winning opportunities. Let the disruption just be something that opponent deals with rather than something you concentrate on. When you play stronger players they understand the technical side of playing against sp, mp and lp and then you'll find yourself exposed if you rely too much on the rubber. In the black & black era post 1977 I played for 18 months with tackiness and LP with a lot of success by twiddling but found that stronger players could give me problems by playing light spin to my lp side.
      To be an effective combo player requires twice the practice than for normal both sides. BTW i would class sp as normal and mp and lp as disruptive.
      anyway good luck
      Thanks for the input. I don't really want to rely on the rubber or material, but more so rely on a style that's difficult ro play against. The idea is more to don't let them play a regular game.

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