Is Harimoto's screams disrespectful to the opponent?

Is Harimoto's screaming disrespectful to the sport and to his opponents?


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Jul 2012
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<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="List Table 2 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="List Table 3 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="List Table 4 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="List Table 5 Dark Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51" Name="List Table 6 Colorful Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52" Name="List Table 7 Colorful Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46" Name="List Table 1 Light Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="List Table 2 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="List Table 3 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="List Table 4 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="List Table 5 Dark Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51" Name="List Table 6 Colorful Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52" Name="List Table 7 Colorful Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true" Name="Mention"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true" Name="Smart Hyperlink"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true" Name="Hashtag"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true" Name="Unresolved Mention"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true" Name="Smart Link"/> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Normal tabell"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin-top:0cm; mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:8.0pt; mso-para-margin-left:0cm; line-height:107%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-language:EN-US;} </style> <![endif]--> What I’m saying is that I don’t know of anyone that screams that loud and that frequently. Either now or in the past. Do you know of anyone on that level?

How come nobody has mentioned Morizono Masataka yet? He is arguably even a lot more obnoxious than Harimoto. I remember watching some matches of the World Tours and even though it wasn't a match with Masataka in it, he was playing in the same hall on another table. And when you were watching the match you could hear as if someone was being murdered in the hall, that's how bad Morizono Masataka screams were. Perhaps somebody can post some of his examples.

The only thing is that Morizono Masataka never rose to the level that Harimoto did, it's why probably people haven't noticed his screams that much while Harimoto is now pretty much everywhere.
 
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How come nobody has mentioned Morizono Masataka yet? He is arguably even a lot more obnoxious than Harimoto. I remember watching some matches of the World Tours and even though it wasn't a match with Masataka in it, he was playing in the same hall on another table. And when you were watching the match you could hear as if someone was being murdered in the hall, that's how bad Morizono Masataka screams were. Perhaps somebody can post some of his examples.

The only thing is that Morizono Masataka never rose to the level that Harimoto did, it's why probably people haven't noticed his screams that much while Harimoto is now pretty much everywhere.

Morizono was infinitely worse but nobody talks about it because he is pretty irrelevant.
 
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Believe it or not Rome wasn't built in a day. Proposal is okay for amendment.

Carl
Hidden serves were not a problem until suddenly they were. Spinning the ball with your fingers to serve wasn't an issue until it was.

And actually yes if there are more than 4 points (per player) that are fantastic maybe they have a very exciting style. Or maybe we should ban it to 4 where we try to outline over the top and unlimited minor celebration. Just add it to the proposal.

Also for languages I never hear more than just three that are used loudly. Usually it's just Chinese though. You'd only really need to be familiar with one or two. Or maybe your prefer a time limit?

My other proposals would be ball boys and multiple balls like t2 that was so watchable even in long form because of that and would mitigate some Cho frustration because of it not just cutting to Cho again and again.

Since part of this is the discussion of rules and proposed sanctions for celebrating points won, I just wanted to see things fleshed out. Since you are vocal in prosing there are rule changes, and since I know you to be clear, objective and evenhanded, I figured you would be a good person to present what you thought that might look like.

Does anyone else have feelings about prosed rule changes to curtail point winning celebrations?
 
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https://tieba.baidu.com/p/7090839356?pn=2
看完张本智和比赛,说句公道话,他就是叫的比较响,主动得分喊两下

阿卡西鲷 1楼 2020-11-15 20:13
对手失误他也没喊,就是喊叫减压,这么高级的比赛对他来说压力很大。但我看中国体育直播室里有一些13点骂的真难听,比张本智和的喊更令人讨厌,这些人专门出来看比赛骂人吗?哪怕是中国队内战也要挑事骂人,行为变态

S墨斗 2楼 2020-11-15 21:36
我们真球迷应该感谢马龙和张本为我们奉献了一场精彩的乒乓盛宴!

挂角的羚羊 3楼 2020-11-15 21:38
职业喷子素来都是无差别攻击

克枪尔- 4楼 2020-11-15 21:49
马琳磨磨蹭蹭还不是一票人效仿。赢球才是硬道理

不核平无崛起 5楼 2020-11-15 21:56
你没发现张本只要不喊,就是要输球了吗

zpcl616 6楼 2020-11-15 22:00
对手失误他会喊的,但是运气球一般不会喊还会举手示意,主要是喊得太大声太夸张了会觉得烦人,不过其实也慢慢习惯了……

我好难啊 7楼 2020-11-15 22:05
对手失误也会喊,有时候连喊,赢球就喊。只有势头被按下去,连续输分,局势不利(心理开始虚了),这时候对手失误可能会不喊
2020-11-15 23:38
浪花晓我心: 失误喊应该没什么问题吧,运气球这些不喊就ok

2020-11-17 11:10
王水洗澡: 失误喊其实是没问题的,因为这个失误大多时候是和判断博弈,以及回球质量有关的,和运气球是天差地别,过于离谱的无谓失误不算,不过这种张本也不叫

2020-11-17 12:38
贴吧用户_5AtCKy1: 而且张本大多数都是对手出现受迫性失误才喊​

S_Aura 8楼 2020-11-15 23:34
其实张本自信心不强,喊就是给自己减压吧

步步为营 10楼 2020-11-16 00:33
主要张本智和叫的太难听了,柳承敏赢球也活跃,可叫的好听
2020-11-17 09:50
顾南薰: 当年可没人觉得柳承敏叫的好听

2020-11-17 11:27
步步为营: 回复 顾南薰 :因为是敌人。。可乐观角度来说,柳承敏的吼真的还可以啊,难道女性不喜欢?

2020-11-17 11:39
顾南薰: 回复 步步为营 :那叫对手 还敌人....​

精致的淘气 11楼2020-11-16 09:54
除了有点吵,其他也还好.毕竟确实有实力

雅典娜的肚脐眼 12楼 2020-11-16 10:04
现在也习惯了

白白嫩嫩林志玲 17楼 2020-11-17 11:49
摩托的素质还是蛮好的,吧里喜欢他的其实不少,至于喷子们不需理会

ITTFml 18楼 2020-11-17 11:59
那为什么女队员没人叫?
2020-11-17 13:29
钟楼湾儿: 森樱打球没看过吧
2020-11-17 17:51
白白嫩嫩林志玲: 邓亚萍笑了​

cundum521 21楼 2020-11-17 15:38
摩托是打完球之后叫喊,打球时候又不叫,像奥恰那种打球时候也呻吟,才烦人。而且摩托叫的时候都注意背向对手,属于给自己加油,可以增强信心。

2020-11-18 08:56
需要理由吗: 回复 cundum521 :貌似最早也面对对手的,后来被提醒了就回过去喊,但偶尔还是会不回过去。影响不大。​

蓝天婳 22楼 2020-11-17 15:41
但是听着还是很烦

letschitchat 23楼 2020-11-17 16:05
其实喊不喊也没啥,都适应了,只不过他要是不这么吼,受欢迎程度肯定更高。

西北lm兔- 24楼 2020-11-17 16:08
赢一球就撕心裂肺的吼叫,感觉很low

燕双鹰 25楼 2020-11-17 16:33
小日本有几个好的?楼主是哪国的?

烤鸡炉000 26楼 2020-11-17 16:36
直播间里那些人对谁都是骂得难听,半决赛决赛去看央视邓亚萍解说不香吗

无为无相 27楼 2020-11-17 16:38
不是边打边吼就行啊,规则允许内。
有不爱叫默默输出的冷面杀手,就得允许有爱叫爱给自己加油的热血少年。
平心而论,张本人品上没啥黑点的,刚出道时一直吼我琢磨着这嗓子不得报废啊,后边看啊看的也听习惯了就

老梦 28楼 2020-11-17 16:42
讲真,小摩托的吼叫真的有点夸张,可能是年龄小,压力大,需要释放吧。看看小小林,年龄和他差不多,控制得多好?等小摩托更强大了,能够像龙队那样给人一种不怒自威的压力了,或许会好些吧。但是一旦吼成习惯了,可能也不是那么容易改的

寂寞的开裆裤 30楼 2020-11-17 17:56
新人小将喊喊还算正常,但张本明明是老人了还这么喊就过分了

瞅你咋地 31楼 2020-11-17 18:06
丧家犬都这么叫,因为没有安全感,以叫壮胆,所以叫的难听

拍拍乐吖 32楼2020-11-17 18:10
张本喊声虽大,但还是礼貌的。有些中国运动员,冲着对手喊、甚至冲着对手挥拳,才是没教养。
2020-11-18 11:16
菜农: 冲着对手喊,挥拳的是你的日本爹水谷隼

2020-11-18 11:34
大号蜜蜂: 比赛就是对抗,没什么好讲,篮球足球这样身体直接接触的对抗更明显,大打出手的也屡见不鲜。对人的感受很微妙,有些人就是招人烦,特别是张本这样的小日本。少提什么教养,知道什么是是教养吗​

zzccss2012 33楼 2020-11-17 18:24
账本对别人在比分上碾压的时候也是不喊的。这孩子素质挺不错的。

崇尚敬畏自然 36楼 2020-11-17 19:31
不管你愿意与否,未来属于张本智和。
2020-11-17 19:35
菜农: 现在张本智和对樊振东一胜难求

2020-11-17 21:22
拍拍乐吖: 同意,张本智和非常有可能取得大满贯。

2020-11-18 17:26
崇尚敬畏自然: 他今年17岁,这样的一位少年能打成这个水平放眼宇宙目前还有谁?再过三五年左右,随着年龄技术心理以及对乒乓球的进一步理解,我想他会有更大的作为,这个与国界无关。​

cqxfcs 38楼 2020-11-18 00:36
中国体育直播间某些观众的素质就别提了.....看着就恶心
2020-11-18 01:31
宇豪的父亲: 楼上不少人跟那些观众素质差不多呢
2020-11-18 10:54
cqxfcs: 回复 宇豪的父亲 :好好一十几岁的孩子,一口一个汉奸地骂.....真不知道现实中是什么人​

贴吧用户_54WK6ZP 39楼 2020-11-18 07:12
中国体育直播间有些观众的素质你懂的,他们可是连我们自己队员都疯狂骂的

sarmarqand 40楼 2020-11-18 07:55
张本智和现在17岁,比赛时喊声还是有点夸张。
刚出道时他的喊叫更夸张。
但是再过几年,张本智和这种喊叫会逐渐减弱,到20岁的时候就差不多正常了。

需要理由吗 42楼 2020-11-18 08:59
喊得太过分这好吗,这不好。五十步笑百步这好吗,这也不好。

大号蜜蜂 43楼 2020-11-18 11:28
大喊一下,是缓解压力提振士气的一种心理方法,估计是他爸爸出的主意,从小就有这样了,不是即兴的,是常年的习惯

超级heluolin 44楼 2020-11-18 12:58
看看孙闻打他的时候,比他声还大,但是孙闻和其他人打的时候,就很正常,这是以暴制暴。
2020-11-20 10:57
宇豪的父亲: ?建议搜索超级联赛孙闻对刘丁硕​

bxywwl 45楼2020-11-20 10:31
喊喊正常,提振士气,集中注意力。17岁的孩子,谁家孩子17岁有这个压力?而且他是日本出生的,不要拿爱国主义来谈论他,不适用。
After watching Harimoto's game, to be fair, he just shouted relatively louder, shouting twice after scoring

Akashic Sea Bream 1st Floor 2020-11-15 20:13
He didn't shout when the opponent made a mistake, just shouting to release the stress. Such a high-level competition puts a lot of pressure on him. But I think there are some scatterbrains' curses in the Zhibo TV live broadcast room that are really ugly, more annoying than Harimoto's shouts. Do these people come out to watch games and curse people? Even if it is all-Chinese matchups, they have to scold people and behave abnormally.

S ink fountain 2nd floor 2020-11-15 21:36
We true fans should thank Ma Long and Harimoto for giving us a wonderful table tennis feast!


Antelope with hanging horns 3rd Floor 2020-11-15 21:38
Professional haters are always indiscriminate attacks

Kerguner-4th Floor 2020-11-15 21:49
Doesn't everyone imitate Ma Lin's time-wasting? Winning is what matters

No nuclear, no rise, 5th floor 2020-11-15 21:56
Didn’t you find that Harimoto would lose if he didn’t shout?


zpcl616 6th Floor 2020-11-15 22:00
He will shout when the opponent makes a mistake, but he usually doesn’t shout on nets and edges and raises his hand to acknowledge. Most of time it's too loud, but I'm starting to get used...


I'm so difficult 7th Floor 2020-11-15 22:05
He also shouts when opponent makes mistakes, and sometimes continuously. He shouts whenever he scores. Only when the momentum is pushed back, losing points continuously, the situation unfavorable (the psyche begins to shake), he might not shout at this time when the opponent makes a mistake.
2020-11-15 23:38
The waves are in my heart: It should be okay to shout on mistakes, right? It’s ok if you don’t shout on nets and edges

2020-11-17 11:10
Wang Shui takes a bath: It’s actually okay to shout on mistakes, because most of the time this mistake is related to the game of judgment and the quality of the shot returned. It is very different from nets and edges. Unforced errors that are too outrageous don't counted, but he doesn't shout on those


2020-11-17 12:38
Tieba user_5AtCKy1: And most of the time Harimoto shouts because his opponent has made a forced error

S_Aura 8th Floor 2020-11-15 23:34
Actually Harimoto doesn’t have a strong self-confidence, so he’s just taking the pressure off himself.


Step by Step, 10th Floor 2020-11-16 00:33
Mainly because Harimoto's shouts sound too ugly. RSM was also active after scoring, but the shout sounds nice
2020-11-17 09:50
Gu Nanxun: No one thought RSM's shouts sounded nice

2020-11-17 11:27
Step by step: Reply Gu Nanxun: Because he's the enemy. But from an optimistic point of view, RSM’s roar was really good, don’t women like it?

2020-11-17 11:39
Gu Nanxun: Reply step by step: That is called the opponent, not enemy...​

Exquisite naughty 11th floor2020-11-16 09:54
Except for being a bit noisy, everything else is fine. After all, he does have strength

Athena's Belly Button 12th Floor 2020-11-16 10:04
I'm used to it now


Lin Chiling 17th Floor 2020-11-17 11:49
The upbringing of Moto is quite good, there are actually a lot of people who like him in Tieba, as for the haters, don’t bother


ITTFml 18th Floor 2020-11-17 11:59
Then why no female players shout?
2020-11-17 13:29
Bell Tower Bay: Haven't seen Sakura Mori played before?
2020-11-17 17:51
Lin Zhiling: Deng Yaping smiled​

cundum521 21st Floor 2020-11-17 15:38
Moto shouts after a point, and does not shout during a point. What's annoying is the moaning like Ochcharov's during play. Also, he turns his face away from the opponent when shouting. It belongs to cheering for oneself, which can enhance confidence.
2020-11-18 08:56
Do you need a reason: Reply cundum521: It seems that he also faced towards the opponent at first, and then turned away to shout after being reminded, but occasionally he still doesn't do it. Doesn't matter.​

Lantianhua 22 Floor 2020-11-17 15:41
But it's still annoying

letschitchat 23rd Floor 2020-11-17 16:05
In fact, it doesn't matter whether he shouts or not, I'm all used to it, but if he doesn't shout like that, he will definitely be more popular.


Northwest lm Rabbit-24th Floor 2020-11-17 16:08
The heartbreaking roar after winning scoring a point. Feels very low

Yan Shuangying 25th Floor 2020-11-17 16:33
How many are good there in Little Japan? Which country is the OP from?

Roast Chicken Oven 000 26th Floor 2020-11-17 16:36
Those people in the live broadcast room chew on everyone as poorly as possible. Isn’t it good to watch Deng Yaping’s commentary on CCTV for final rounds?

Wuwei Wuxiang 27th Floor 2020-11-17 16:38
It's fine as long as it's not during the point, as the rules allow it.
If there is a poker-face killer who keeps outputing silently, then you have to allow a hot-blooded boy who loves to cheer for himself.
In all fairness, Harimoto himself is sparkly clean in terms of character. When he first debuted, he kept shouting and I wondered if his voice would get scrapped. I got used to it after watching and watching.


Old Dream 28th Floor 2020-11-17 16:42
To tell the truth, the roar of the little Moto is really a bit exaggerated. It may be because of the young age and the high stress. It needs to be released. Look at LYJ, his age is about the same, yet how good his self-control? When the little Moto becomes stronger, it can give people a kind of pressure that is intimidating like Captain Long, then it may be better. But once shouting becomes a habit, it may not be so easy to change

Lonely crotch pants 30th floor 2020-11-17 17:56
It’s normal for the rookie teenager to shout, but it’s too much for Harimoto to shout like this since he is obviously an old man.


Look at you 31st floor 2020-11-17 18:06
The losing dogs bark like this, because they have no sense of security. They shout out of encouragement, so they sound so bad.

Pat Pat Le Acridine 32 Floor 2020-11-17 18:10
Although Harimoto shouted loudly, he was still polite. Some Chinese players shout at their opponents, or even fist-pump at their opponents. Those are uneducated.
2020-11-18 11:16
Vegetable farmer: shouting at the opponent, that is your Japanese father Mizutani

2020-11-18 11:34
Big bee: Competition is confrontation. There is nothing to say. The confrontation with direct physical contact like basketball and football is more obvious, and it is not uncommon to see big fights. The feeling of people is very subtle, and some people are annoying, especially a little Jap like Harimoto. Don’t mention any upbringing, do you know what upbringing is?​

zzccss2012 33rd Floor 2020-11-17 18:24
Ledger[TL's note: wordplay on Harimoto's name] does not shout at others when the score is lopsided. The quality of this child is pretty good.

Advocate and fear nature 36th floor 2020-11-17 19:31
Whether you like it or not, the future belongs to Harimoto.
2020-11-17 19:35
Vegetable farmer: Harimoto has a hard time now to find a victory over Fan Zhendong

2020-11-17 21:22
Paipai Lea: Agree, Harimoto is very likely to win a Grand Slam.

2020-11-18 17:26
Advocating awe and respect for nature: He is 17 years old this year, and such a teenager can reach this level. Who else is there in the universe? In 3 to 5 years or so, with his age, as his techniques, psyche and comprehension of table tennis improve, I think he will achieve more, which has nothing to do with national boundaries.​

cqxfcs 38th Floor 2020-11-18 00:36
Don't mention the quality of some viewers in the Zhibo TV live broadcast...
2020-11-18 01:31
Yuhao's father: Many people upstairs are of the same quality as those of the audience
2020-11-18 10:54
cqxfcs: Reply Yu Hao’s father: It’s a good teenage boy who gets called a collaborator 1 by 1.....I really don’t know who they are like in reality​

Tieba User_54WK6ZP 39th Floor 2020-11-18 07:12
You know the quality of some viewers in Zhibo TV live broadcast room, but they even scold our players wildly.


sarmarqand 40th Floor 2020-11-18 07:55
Harimoto is now 17 years old, the shouts during the game are still a bit exaggerated.
When he first debuted, his shouts were even more exaggerated.
But in a few years, Harimoto and this kind of shouting will gradually weaken, and they will be almost normal by the age of 20.


Do you need a reason? 42nd Floor 2020-11-18 08:59
Is it okay to shout too much? No. Pot calling the kettle black. Is that okay? No.


Large Bee 43 Floor 2020-11-18 11:28
Shouting is a psychological way to relieve stress and boost morale. It is probably his father’s idea. He has been like this since he was a child. It is not improvised, but a perennial habit.


Super heluolin 44th Floor 2020-11-18 12:58
Look at when Sun Wen beat him, he was louder than him, but when Sun Wen beat other people, it was normal. This is violence against violence.
2020-11-20 10:57
Yuhao's father:? Search for the Super League Sun Wen vs. Liu Dingshuo​

bxywwl 45th floor2020-11-20 10:31
Shouting is normal, to boost the morale, and raise the focus. For a 17-year-old child, whose 17-year-old child has to go under this stress? And he was born in Japan. Don't talk about him with patriotism, it doesn't apply.



https://tieba.baidu.com/p/7099131536
人心的成见是一座大山

借我壹生1314 1楼 2020-11-19 15:42
刚看完张本智和对张宇镇的比赛,张本再次在3:1领先时候被翻盘,复刻世界杯半决赛。比赛内容非常精彩,张本虽然可惜,但是胜负乃乒家常事,也没啥说的,然而直播旁边的一些评论却十分扎眼。现在的观赛氛围戾气太重,动不动就是一群弹幕教练指点江山,众人皆醉我独醒,这还是好一点的,比较文明,有些人就直接开骂了,张本智和发个球就骂,喊一声就骂,得分骂,丢分骂,骂他一个人不过瘾,连他场边的父亲也不能放过。本来我就不想看弹幕,知道会是这种情况,但每次看到还是很生气,这不是素质的问题,这就是心理变态。尤其是看龙队打张本智和那场,评论区都是老双标了,龙队喊就是好听!霸气!张本喊就是恶心!噪音!我寻思着,打过球的都知道,比赛时候喊喊太正常了吧,龙队喊当然没问题,喊出来代表这释放,发挥更好,那么其他人喊更没问题啊,为什么要咄咄逼人。归根结底,就是对张本个人有偏见。

借我壹生1314 2楼 2020-11-19 15:42
其实不只是针对张本智和,很多人在网络上看到一点点对某些外国球员的负面评价,就觉得自己了解到了全部事实真相,变得嫉恶如仇,一副正义使者的模样,开始肆意攻击这些运动员甚至是其家人,把他们骂的一文不值,但背地里也许他们连一场完整的比赛都没看过,这些人就是我们所说的云球迷。他们所接触的所有信息都是单一方的主管表达,只是一面之词,众多自媒体可以借由发达的互联网把任意一个人包装成任何想包装的样子,可以是追梦赤子,也可以是叛徒汉奸。当我们获得的信息不够客观,得出的结论也是不客观的,是情绪化的,所以在一些人的心里,直接把不喜欢的球员定义为坏人,反派,想象成内心阴暗无比的恶人,就像伊藤美诚,一颦一笑一举一动都能解读出一千种内涵,即使双方运动员私下里和和睦睦有说有笑,网络上某些人却开始疯狂意淫,胡思乱想。这些人没有机会,也根本不给那些他们自以为的“坏人”一句辩解的机会,就自顾自的厌恶,自顾自的生气。

借我壹生1314 3楼 2020-11-19 15:42
那么为什么网上有些人唯独对张本智和无法容忍呢?如果说是出于民族情怀,爱国精神,那么吉田海伟还有韩阳,他们也是中国人,去到日本代表日本打球,怎么就没看过这么多负面评价。还有很多人说喜欢丹羽孝希,夸他打球佛系,看淡胜负,是真正享受比赛。还有人喜欢松平健太,亲切的叫他小队长,夸他打球有灵气。他们和张本一样,不都是日本队一员,为什么在舆论导向上天差地别?我认为,本质心态就是嫉妒生恨!他们嫉妒!嫉妒张本天赋过人,嫉妒他凭什么十四五岁的时候就能战胜一众中国队好手,跻身世界排名前五!凭什么日本队其他人花里胡哨的技术都打不赢的中国队,而你一个平平无奇的张本智和就能造成这么大威胁!也许是张本的冲击力威胁到他们喜欢的某位球员,由嫉妒转为担忧,进而加剧成恨。人心的成见是一座大山,如果你打心底里讨厌一个人,那么他连呼吸都是错的,敢在得分时吼叫根本不能容忍,更何况那个人还取得了耀眼的成绩。心系主队本无可厚非,但是这种关心逐渐畸形变质,靠着对别人评头品足甚至直接辱骂来宣泄就十分不妥,眼界窄了,格局小了,心眼坏了,本质错了!

借我壹生1314 4楼 2020-11-19 15:42
曾经记者问起吉田海伟为什么要加入日本队,他说:“在中国你想出名想参加世界大赛简直比登天还难,打一辈子球或许别人也不会认识你,但是你去国外就不一样,韩阳就是一个好例子,他在国内没有发展,立即去日本发展,现在国际排名进入前20了。如今我在日本的地位就如王皓在中国的地位一样,所以这就是国内与国外的差距。”
老球迷都知道,以前中国队的参赛名额多宝贵,就不说世乒赛了,平时的公开赛也只有四五个主力可以参加,同样是国家一队的优秀人才可能一辈子都没有露脸的机会,所以才会选择到国外发展,起码能有个参赛名额。这些代表国外比赛的中国球员我们叫他们海外乒团,韩国的田志希,德国的韩莹,新加坡全队,卡塔尔的李平,奥地利的陈卫星,斯洛伐克的寇磊,等等等等。

借我壹生1314 5楼 2020-11-19 15:43
我想张本一家初衷也是如此,张宇夫妇只是想自己的孩子远离残酷的竞争,为人父母的想要下一代有个更好的前途,仅此而已。倘若留在中国,也许张本智和一辈子都不会有奥运会的参赛名额。就像无数毕业生出国留学,在国外求职一样,海外乒团可以看作一个在国外工作的群体,他们只是为了实现梦想,追求更好的未来。没有人有资格对他们的选择上纲上线,只是因为去的是日本,只是因为威胁到中国队的统治地位,只是因为嫉妒,就冠以国家民族的名义,实在言过其实,球员们承担不起,说这话的人也承担不起。我们不要以自己的标准要求他人,未尝他人苦,莫劝人大度,只想球迷朋友们理性看球,不要轻信谣言随波逐流,努力提升自己的球技才是正事。
2020-11-20 14:03
icebugiam: 说得真迂腐!上纲上线这种事儿是平常人能做的吗?你这是试图跟一群带着任务的水军讲道理!讲多了,你就会发现这群人的特点:你讲道理,他们是那样;你骂他们,他们是那样;你不管他们,他们还是那样。不要跟机器人讲道理!另外,张本喊得***吵!你真的不在乎这种烦死人的声音?!我受不了!​

借我壹生1314 6楼 2020-11-19 15:43
世界乒坛本就应该百花齐放,有竞争才是好事,有竞争才有观赛的价值,只是因为别人成绩好,动了你的蛋糕就刀兵相向,太幼稚,像极了小孩子打架,打不过就骂,放学你别走!

天鹅湖小水怪 7楼2020-11-19 15:45
匹夫无罪,怀璧其罪
对中国队造成威胁,狭隘的人就有一万个理由骂他
伊藤美诚啥都没做,因为头大和发球就能被嘲讽
这是一种依附强大集体的弱者心态
The prejudice of the mind is a big mountain

Lend Me One Life 1314 1st Floor 2020-11-19 15:42
Just after watching the match between Harimoto and JWJ, Harimoto once again got overturned after a 3-1 lead and reproduced the World Cup semi-final. The content of the game is very exciting. Although Harimoto was a pity, win or lose is the common theme, and there is nothing to say. However, some comments on the live broadcast are very eye-catching. The atmosphere of watching the game is too toxic. It is always a group of marquee coaches giving pointers. As if everyone is drunk yet I am sober. Those are the better ones, more civilized. Some people just swear directly. Harimoto get scolded just for serving. Gets scolded for shouting, gets scolded for scoring, gets scoled for missing. Scolding him alone is not addictive, even his father on the sideline can't get away. I didn't want to watch the marquee at first, knowing that this would be the case, but I still get angry every time I see it. It's not a question of upbringing, it's psychopathic. Especially when the Captain Long played Harimoto, the comment area is all the old double standard. When Captain long shouts, it just sounds so good! Domineering! Harimoto's shouting is disgusting! Noise! ​​I thought, everyone who has played knows that it’s normal to shout during the game. Of course, it’s okay for the Captain to shout. It is a means to release and play better. So when other people shout, no problem, why be an ass? The bottom line? Bias against Harimoto.

Lend Me One Life 1314 2nd Floor 2020-11-19 15:42
In fact, it is not just for Harimoto. Many people have seen bits of negative comments on certain foreign players on the net, and feel that they have learned all the truth, become hateful and a vigilante, and start to attack these athletes. The athletes and even their family members are labelled as worthless, but secretly, maybe they haven't even watched a complete match. These people are what we call cloud fans. All the information they come into contact with is expressed by a single-party supervisor, just a one-sided opinion. Many self-media can use the developed internet to package any person in any way they want to package. It can be a dream chaser or a traitor. When the information we get is not objective enough, the conclusions we draw are also not objective and emotional. Therefore, in some people’s minds, they directly define players they don’t like as the bad guys, antagonists, and imagine them as villains with a gloomy heart. Like Mima Ito, a smile, a thousand implications can be interpreted with every smile, every move, and even if the athletes of both sides talk and laugh in harmony in private, some people on the net have gone ballistic and overthink it. These people don't have the opportunity, and they don't even give the "bad guys" they think of a chance to make their cases, feeling all disgusted and angry.

Lend Me One Life 1314 3rd Floor 2020-11-19 15:42
So why can some people on the net not tolerate Harimoto only? If it is because of national sentiment and patriotism, then Kai Yoshida and Han Yan, they are also Chinese, went to Japan to play on behalf of Japan, how come they have never seen so many negative comments? There are also many people who say they like Koki Niwa, praise him for playing Buddhism, and are indifferent to victory and defeat, really enjoying the game. Some people like Kenta Matsudaira, kindly call him the team captain, and praise him for his aura. Like Harimoto, they are all members of the Japanese team. Why are they so different in terms of public opinion? I think the essential mentality is jealousy! They are jealous! I am jealous of Harimoto's talent, and I am jealous of how he can beat a group of Chinese players at the age of 14 or 5 and rank among the top 5 in the world! Why the Japanese team can't beat the Chinese team with the flamboyant skills, yet you, a mediocre Harimoto, can pose such a big threat! Maybe Harimoto’s impact has threatened a player they like, turning jealousy into worry, and then intensifying hatred. The prejudice of the human mind is a big mountain. If you hate a person from the bottom of your heart, then he is even wrong to breathe. It is impossible to tolerate shouting when you dare to score, let alone that person who has achieved dazzling results. There is nothing wrong with caring about the home team, but this concern is gradually deformed, and it is very inappropriate to vent by criticizing others or even direct insults. The horizon is narrow, the structure is small, the mind is broken, and the essence is wrong!

Lend Me One Life 1314 4th Floor 2020-11-19 15:42
A reporter once asked why Kai Yoshida wanted to join the Japanese team. He said: “It’s harder than reaching heaven for you to be famous in China than to participate in the world competitions. You may not be known for a lifetime, but if you go abroad, it's a different world. Similarly, Han Yan is a good example. He met a deadend in China and immediately went to Japan to develop his career. Now he is in the world top 20. Now my position in Japan is the same as that of Wang Hao in China, so this is the domestic and foreign gap."
Veteran fans know that the number of places for the Chinese team in the past is precious, not to mention the WTTC. Usually only 4 or 5 main players can participate in the Opens. The same outstanding talents of the national A-team may not have the opportunity to show their faces for a lifetime. So they choose to go abroad, at least I can get a place in the competition. We call these Chinese players representing foreign competitions the Overseas Legion, JJH from South Korea, Han Ying from Germany, the Singapore team, Li Ping from Qatar, Chen Weixing from Austria, Kou Lei from Slovakia, and so on.

Lend Me One Life 1314 5th Floor 2020-11-19 15:43
I think the original intention of Harimoto's family is the same. Zhang Yu and his wife just wanted their children to stay away from the cruel competition, and parents want a better future for the next generation, and nothing more. If he stayed in China, maybe Harimoto would never have a place for the Olympic Games. Just like countless graduates studying abroad and looking for jobs abroad, Overseas Legion can be regarded as a group working abroad. They are just out there to realize their dreams and pursue a better future. No one is eligible to point fingers over their choice, just because they are going to Japan, just because they threaten the dominance of the Chinese team, and just because of jealousy, they are labelled for doing it in the name of the nation. It is an exaggeration and the players cannot afford it. Those who say this can't afford it either. We should not demand others by our own standards. We should not try to make others suffer. We don't persuade others to be generous. We just want our fans and friends to watch table tennis rationally. Don't believe the rumors and go with the flow.
2020-11-20 14:03
icebugiam: That's pedantic! Is it something ordinary people can do? You are trying to reason with a group of naval forces on a mission! If you talk too much, you will discover the characteristics of this group of people: you are reasonable, they are like that; you scold them, they are like that; you don't care about them, they are still like that. Don't reason with robots! In addition, Harimoto shouted ****ing loudly! You really don't care about such annoying sound? ! I can't stand it!​

Lend Me One Life 1314 6th Floor 2020-11-19 15:43
The world of table tennis is supposed to flourish. Competition is a good thing, and competition is worth watching. It’s just because others have good results. If someone takes your cake, you will get into a fight with that person. It’s too naive, like a child fighting, but what you can’t beat, you curse, don't leave after school!

Swan Lake Little Water Monster 7th Floor 2020-11-19 15:45
A person's talent will arouse the envy of others. [TL's note: Chinese proverb]
It poses a threat to the Chinese team, and narrow-minded people have 10,000 reasons to berate him
Mima Ito didn’t do anything, yet she could be taunted just because of her big forehead and serve.
This is a mentality of the weak attached to a strong collective
 
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says Shoo...nothing to see here. - zeio
says Shoo...nothing to see here. - zeio
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Ah okay. So you consider (y)our paltry life experience short for discussing Harimoto. I guess I missed that when you stated that (y)our paltry life experience applies when you criticize Harimoto, but doesn't apply when you criticize other players. Thanks for making it clear.



One of the rules of leadership/celebrity is that is it is exceptional and there is a very thin line between humanizing and excusing its limitations. Like I have said before, what Harimoto does is not just celebration. You can look at how it evolved over time. And there is a difference between saying that pros are able to handle it and that pros are not affected by it.

I will leave the moderator stuff alone because it is pointless. Anyone can serve if they want to serve and are deemed able and I am still confused by how it came into this discussion.

Yet you called me sexist, knowing I've written that, but still insisted I limited it to Ishikawa. Which one is it, then? Guess what? I don't care what you're getting at anyway. Please don't quote "my paltry life experience" in your post from now on? All right?

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/fo...rean-Open-2019&p=280808&viewfull=1#post280808
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/fo...s-Harimoto-4-3&p=257563&viewfull=1#post257563
 
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Yet you called me sexist, knowing I've written that, but still insisted I limited it to Ishikawa. Which one is it, then? Guess what? I don't care what you're getting at anyway. Please don't quote "my paltry life experience" in your post from now on? All right?

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/fo...rean-Open-2019&p=280808&viewfull=1#post280808
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/fo...s-Harimoto-4-3&p=257563&viewfull=1#post257563
I have defended your right to post whatever you want on many occassions. And no, I 100% do not believe any of your posts about anybody on the female JNT are motivated by sexism. In case it isn't clear, I called you sexist to help you see how it feels when people cast aspersions on your motives rather than deal with the content of what you have posted. No fan needs to know that they are not 12 year old prodigies to know that Harimoto 's loudness offends them. IMO, there are other arguments that treat people with more respect (though that is my opinion).

I enjoy watching Harimoto, I have never turned off a single match or lowered the volume because of his celebrations. Do I find them excessive sometimes, I think so. But I wouldn't tell someone who didn't find Harimoto excessive that he was depraved, and I wouldn't tell someone who argued that Harimoto was doing it as tool of intimidation that they had no clue what they were talking about.

There are people who really delight in shaming people who don't agree that what Harimoto is doing is kosher. And that is where I draw the line.

As for how you have read my posts as an assault to your integrity, it just reminds me how easy it is to be misunderstood on the internet because people think things about you which anyone who knows you in person would realize and just flat out ridiculous.
 
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How come nobody has mentioned Morizono Masataka yet? He is arguably even a lot more obnoxious than Harimoto. I remember watching some matches of the World Tours and even though it wasn't a match with Masataka in it, he was playing in the same hall on another table. And when you were watching the match you could hear as if someone was being murdered in the hall, that's how bad Morizono Masataka screams were. Perhaps somebody can post some of his examples.

The only thing is that Morizono Masataka never rose to the level that Harimoto did, it's why probably people haven't noticed his screams that much while Harimoto is now pretty much everywhere.

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font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-language:EN-US;} </style> <![endif]--> Silent as a mouse. Even more silent than Timo Boll. Not comparable to Harimoto by any means!

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You cherry picked the very year that he didn't scream for the first time, all the previous years he had been screaming every match. In 2019 he matured it seems and stopped screaming as much. Check all the previous years he'd played.
 
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I think you're right. Sorry. But this discussion would be much better suited as what should the allowable limits of celebration be and the punishment. For example we all can agree punching anyone would be an unacceptable celebration and it would be interesting to see what everyone most extreme allowed celebration would be. And less argumentative maybe
 
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You cherry picked the very year that he didn't scream for the first time, all the previous years he had been screaming every match. In 2019 he matured it seems and stopped screaming as much. Check all the previous years he'd played.

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font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-language:EN-US;} </style> <![endif]--> On most points he silently lifts his fist into the air. On some points he shouts. But compared to Harimoto I wouldn’t call it shouting. Harimoto shouts much louder.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/112sEzM03QI" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
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Now when we're on the subject, I have to get this out of the system...

Dima' s moaning is SO incredibly annoying.

Ai Fukuhara sounds like a small child when she celebrates a point. Annoying...

Szöcs has these VERY annoying screams when she wins a point -_-'

They're all 3 incredible players though. I especially like Ai Fukuhara even though she has retired :)

Sendt fra min SM-A202F med Tapatalk
 
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A lot of junior Japanese players do this, which just proves my point even further; it's cultural.

Yes, I remembered that some of the ladies used to do it (the girls doubles teams in Japan, including the choppers did it a lot for a while), and after a while a lot of them stopped doing it. Also a lot of juniors don't do it so it isn't a universal thing in that culture. But at one point in time, it wasn't just prior to the point, it was beginning to happen when the opponent was serving and had already entered their ready stance. In any case, after an umpire penalized him for it in a match I unfortunately can't recall right now, his behavior changed.

But to cut a long story short, I agree that cultural differences have a role to play for sure.

Ouestion: Do you think that because it is cultural that it can't affect the opponent?
 
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says Shoo...nothing to see here. - zeio
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This is getting nowhere. Look who brought up "being morally bankrupt" if opinions don't converge. My post in #155 was after all the ones below were made. My 1st post here was actually a direct quote from LGL addressing the title of this thread. Yet, folks started talking about their paltry life experience and now I'm getting grilled for calling that out with my own paltry life experience?

You see, I got curious and went back to check out what some of you wrote in the past. Look what I found. If you can't beat them, join them, then act all innocent? Suggest a player has a learning disability, disregarding/ignorant of the fact that he WAS WELL-MANNERED off the court? The fact that he had top scores among students in Japan back then? Did you folks have all the facts?

Feel free to read the posts I made back then. I did everything within my power to get sufficiently informed about the developing situation first before making my personal opinions only years later, which happens to be such a difficult thing to do unfortunately, as demonstrated multiple times in this thread.

http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=70429&PID=1012831&title=tomokazu-harimoto#1012831
NextLevel said:
There is unsportsmanlike conduct in football, tennis, basketball etc. with regards to celebrations. Yes, there is trash talking but none of those sports place a premium on sound like table tennis does.

In the end, the practice will become commonplace enough that it will be easier to deal with, And I do it in part because my opponent does it. And in a more serious sports, the governing body would have regulated this conduct a long time ago.

So we should just allow people to do anything that potentially improves how well they play?

I have experienced that too. There is a guy who I have played quite a few times ( a friend of sorts) who trash talks while playing even in tournament matches. It takes me off my game but I am determined to conquer it when we meet again.

I used to travel a lot to play tournaments. Sometimes I would end up in a "hostile" club and have to play one of their up and coming juniors. Then the coach and the crowd would be cheering them against me. Or I would travel to Vegas for a tournament and play against a junior who was being cheered on by his family and coach. And every point I missed was being celebrated. And the junior and I were either close in level or the junior was the better player.

At this point in order to not give up and go home, I had to cheer for myself. So don't get me wrong, I 100% understand what Harimoto is doing. There is just something extra loud about the way he does it that is over the top on volume. And no one liked it either when Lin Gaoyuan or Bernadette Szocs were loud but it is something you get used to. And I don't mind if people are okay with it or people are not okay with it. What I am disappointed in is when people say that you are morally bankrupt for not being okay with it. What Harimoto does by being so loud is something I would rather not see. But if it is legal so be it.

Definitely but you didn't really call anyone out or mentioned anyone's name. just complain that people in this thread are not professional tt players in a semi derranged rant with poor formatting?
Just feel maybe a autobiography would suit your needs more

http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=70429&PID=1012815&title=tomokazu-harimoto#1012815
passifid said:
are we honestly sure he doesn't have some kind of minor learning disability that means he cannot control himself, but they don't want to say or people may ridicule him? the more i watch the more i think this is involuntary
 
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The way he talk to father sometimes in a disrespectful manner... During the youth olympic where he lost to china 11-0
 
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This is getting nowhere. Look who brought up "being morally bankrupt" if opinions don't converge. My post in #155 was after all the ones below were made. My 1st post here was actually a direct quote from LGL addressing the title of this thread. Yet, folks started talking about their paltry life experience and now I'm getting grilled for calling that out with my own paltry life experience?

You see, I got curious and went back to check out what some of you wrote in the past. Look what I found. If you can't beat them, join them, then act all innocent? Suggest a player has a learning disability, disregarding/ignorant of the fact that he WAS WELL-MANNERED off the court? The fact that he had top scores among students in Japan back then? Did you folks have all the facts?

Feel free to read the posts I made back then. I did everything within my power to get sufficiently informed about the developing situation first before making my personal opinions only years later, which happens to be such a difficult thing to do unfortunately, as demonstrated multiple times in this thread.

http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=70429&PID=1012831&title=tomokazu-harimoto#1012831


http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=70429&PID=1012815&title=tomokazu-harimoto#1012815

Okay, zeio. It's getting nowhere in part because you make it a matter of being right. In your haste to make it clear that I have changed my mind, you forgot this post:

Intimidating your opponent doesn't require you to look at them. The loudness of the celebration is very annoying and you know that it is coming whenever you lose a point. In a game like TT, the close proximity to your opponent makes such loud celebrations on a consistent basis more annoying. You don't get personal space in TT from loud noises so to speak. Moreover he doesn't cho and get it over with. He has an extended shout that an opponent hates to hear repeated as it is a sign that the opponent is struggling.

Do realize also that Harimoto has refined his act over time and it wasn't always what it was today. We can speak to Bobrow's surprise but there was a time when Harimoto loudly grunted when his opponent was about to.serve and has to get warned/docked points in order to stop doing it. I don't doubt he may have good intentions on the whole but I doubt his behavior is beyond discussing in terms of what it does to his opponents. It can be discussed as benign but it really isn't benign. We have to realize that as long as the ITTF doesn't address it, top players have to deal with it and they don't want to give anyone a mental edge. But I suspect if the players were to speak honestly and not in terms of how they need to portray focus at all times, they would ask that the noise making to the degree that Harimoto does it be dispensed with.

So you see my position hasn't changed that much if at all. I think the ITTF, like many sports governing bodies, should have a formal policy on post-point celebration. In the absence of that. players should do what they want, but I disagree that *some* of these celebrations are not an attempt to get into the space of the opponent just because people *say* they aren't, don't or shouldn't. Quoting this or that person isn't the end of intelligent discussion on the subject.

As for people criticizing or insulting Harimoto, I think that public figures are generally fair game for anything and that arguments against criticism should be addressed with as much evidence as possible. People are just going to say stuff about you if you are in the public domain. And learning about how cultures are different etc. is the right approach. Talking about how we can't see what 12 year old prodigies should do until we have walked a mile in their shoes, well, I guess I see where you are coming from.

Cheers.
 
says Shoo...nothing to see here. - zeio
says Shoo...nothing to see here. - zeio
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The way he talk to father sometimes in a disrespectful manner... During the youth olympic where he lost to china 11-0

Now we turn to his father. BTW, that wasn't his father if we're talking about the coach. Do you even know his last name? It's Tasei.

As if European players don't? As if Asian players don't? The level of double standard is so scary in this thread.

Christian Suss swearing at Mu Zi at WTTC 2009
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/christian-suess-insulted-mu-zi-at-wttc-yokohama_topic26457.html
Shibaev's "this rubber so shit" at Czech Open 2019
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/fo...on-Dignics-09c&p=315369&viewfull=1#post315369
And his spat with Gauzy at Euro Top 16 2017
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/showthread.php?14786-Europe-Top-16-2017&p=179189
WCQ throwing his racket at teammate at Austrian Open 2019 and some people thought the punishment was too harsh
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/fo...-November-2019&p=295568&viewfull=1#post295568
ZYL talked back at Li Sun in the WS final against Ito at Swedish Open 2018. Li Sun then told her to treat the last game as a practice session, in profanity.
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/fo...nal-TT-Matches&p=329834&viewfull=1#post329834
ML swears in Chinese at Qatar Open 2007
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcUqpfbzrYI
WLQ swears in Chinese at the Trial for WTTC 2006
https://youtu.be/odkeW4mJ1bs?t=996
 
says Shoo...nothing to see here. - zeio
says Shoo...nothing to see here. - zeio
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I'm calling you out for "...I do it in part because my opponent does it" despite "...we should just allow people to do anything that potentially improves how well they play?" Again, which one is it? Who's "being morally bankrupt" now? You've been so inconsistent over this issue.

Forget it. The match is about to start. Have fun with the navel-gazing.
 
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