Is Harimoto's screams disrespectful to the opponent?

Is Harimoto's screaming disrespectful to the sport and to his opponents?


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says Spin and more spin.
says Spin and more spin.
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Yep. I used Ali for the fact that, because he was a wild and colorful personality, he had international fame and a platform to make waves in the political sphere as well. His fame transcended the sport as did his larger than life personality. Some of the stuff he did in the ring, well, there was definitely some stuff that was less sportsmanlike than what Harimoto does. :)

The tennis players too. I just was pointing out that big personality is an okay thing in sports. My point when I mentioned Camacho and Prince Naseem was, I hated them and it gave me a rooting interest against them, as a result of their flamboyant personalities. Even as Ali's flamboyant personality caused me to like him (even if I did not like some of the antics in the ring). :) As Zyu has pointed out, having someone to root against brings fans to the table just as having someone to root for. So, maybe eccentric personalities would not be such a bad thing for the sport even if it does not need it.

Does that have to do with Harimoto's screams? Nah. It has to do with adding color and personality to TT. I think ZJK actually had a little of that even if I did not like ZJK's hoards of fan girls. :)

What do I think about the screaming between points: I don't care about it. I understand if someone likes it. I understand if someone else dislikes it. But I would not be so understanding of someone wanting to ban it or him for doing it. And I think we may have more important things to think about than whether a kid screaming is going to ruin Table Tennis. :)

So, I thought Passifid's post was useful and got that it was a response, at least in part, to some of the videos I posted. I think it was well thought out and presented a balance to the side of things I was presenting. Having both sides is more balanced.

I am not going to say TT players should grab their opponent's by the head and tell them they can't hit hard (and much worse) the way Ali did in the ring. I don't think you can become a personality like John McEnroe by trying to be someone you are not. But it would be nice if TT found some way to let the personalities of the players shine through more: it might actually increase interest in the sport.

But screaming between points in Professional Matches: I just think being too fussy about the issue reminds me of all the behavior shaming that happens on social media. And I think that is an endless downward spiral. You can like screaming, fine; you can dislike like screaming, fine: but don't try and force others to agree with thinking the sport should ban it, or that it is UNSPORTSMANLIKE because some specific people don't like it.

 
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I have to disagree that he's trying to intimidate his opponent. He purposely looks away from his opponent when he chos which I can't say the same for all other players that cho. I can't remember the names of the players, but there were a couple of high profile CNT women players that were choing and *staring* at their opponent while doing so. It even surprised Adam Bobrow. Now I'm not knocking the players. It was a pretty intense match in an important tournament. But I've never seen HT stare down his opponent.

Intimidating your opponent doesn't require you to look at them. The loudness of the celebration is very annoying and you know that it is coming whenever you lose a point. In a game like TT, the close proximity to your opponent makes such loud celebrations on a consistent basis more annoying. You don't get personal space in TT from loud noises so to speak. Moreover he doesn't cho and get it over with. He has an extended shout that an opponent hates to hear repeated as it is a sign that the opponent is struggling.

Do realize also that Harimoto has refined his act over time and it wasn't always what it was today. We can speak to Bobrow's surprise but there was a time when Harimoto loudly grunted when his opponent was about to.serve and has to get warned/docked points in order to stop doing it. I don't doubt he may have good intentions on the whole but I doubt his behavior is beyond discussing in terms of what it does to his opponents. It can be discussed as benign but it really isn't benign. We have to realize that as long as the ITTF doesn't address it, top players have to deal with it and they don't want to give anyone a mental edge. But I suspect if the players were to speak honestly and not in terms of how they need to portray focus at all times, they would ask that the noise making to the degree that Harimoto does it be dispensed with.
 
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Name="List Table 7 Colorful Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true" Name="Mention"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true" Name="Smart Hyperlink"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true" Name="Hashtag"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true" Name="Unresolved Mention"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" SemiHidden="true" UnhideWhenUsed="true" Name="Smart Link"/> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Normal tabell"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin-top:0cm; mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:8.0pt; mso-para-margin-left:0cm; line-height:107%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-language:EN-US;} </style> <![endif]--> Many seem to make the conclusion that since no pros complain, they don´t get affected. I´m not sure of that conclusion. I believe the fact that no pros complain is because no pro would admit to their future opponents that: you can affect me and get an advantage by doing mind games when we play the seventh set. The mental game in table tennis is huge. By showing your opponents that you get affected, you give them momentum.
 
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The way I see it is that shouting/chooing is helping tremendously in releasing an extra energy and focus which I have even many times noticed myself. Many times during important matches that I have played, if I wasn't outloud chooing which I was often guilty of myself of doing, there's no way I would've won those important matches, many times against players that were way above me in experience.

And so imagine playing at the much higher level than I ever did, where all these top players compete at the world events, if the shouting/chooing helps so much in easing down your own tensions as well as helping to focus and release the energy etc. Why wouldn't they do it?

The only problem with it that I have is that especially at the lower level, it can so easily go in a nasty way where players are actually doing it in a spiteful and aggressive kind of way and often can include various cuss words and insults thrown around which is not pleasant. And often times the whole game of table tennis I'm so put off by even playing because of this behaviour. So I personally try to stay as quiet as possible when I play, unless it's absolutely necessary for me to release the tension.

And this is one of the things that is very difficult to distinguish whether the player is doing it in a spiteful way or only just trying to release the tension.
 
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says toooooo much choice!!
says toooooo much choice!!
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personally i'm more pissed off by an opponent who would TALK to me between points, than an opponent who is CHOOing

Yeah!! Especially if they’re being all nice and jokey/friendly!! Just gotta put your head down and hopefully win the match, extremely annoying when they are at a much higher level than you!!
 
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tell me the friendly words AFTER the match, not during the match. its against the rules. and a lot of people give ironic comments or trying to make you lose focus with subtle words, even if they sound nice.

"WOW you played really good in this 1st set, nothing i could do" for example is totally misplaced.
 
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tell me the friendly words AFTER the match, not during the match. its against the rules. and a lot of people give ironic comments or trying to make you lose focus with subtle words, even if they sound nice.

"WOW you played really good in this 1st set, nothing i could do" for example is totally misplaced.


I have experienced that too. There is a guy who I have played quite a few times ( a friend of sorts) who trash talks while playing even in tournament matches. It takes me off my game but I am determined to conquer it when we meet again.
 
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The way I see it is that shouting/chooing is helping tremendously in releasing an extra energy and focus which I have even many times noticed myself. Many times during important matches that I have played, if I wasn't outloud chooing which I was often guilty of myself of doing, there's no way I would've won those important matches, many times against players that were way above me in experience.

And so imagine playing at the much higher level than I ever did, where all these top players compete at the world events, if the shouting/chooing helps so much in easing down your own tensions as well as helping to focus and release the energy etc. Why wouldn't they do it?

The only problem with it that I have is that especially at the lower level, it can so easily go in a nasty way where players are actually doing it in a spiteful and aggressive kind of way and often can include various cuss words and insults thrown around which is not pleasant. And often times the whole game of table tennis I'm so put off by even playing because of this behaviour. So I personally try to stay as quiet as possible when I play, unless it's absolutely necessary for me to release the tension.

And this is one of the things that is very difficult to distinguish whether the player is doing it in a spiteful way or only just trying to release the tension.

I used to travel a lot to play tournaments. Sometimes I would end up in a "hostile" club and have to play one of their up and coming juniors. Then the coach and the crowd would be cheering them against me. Or I would travel to Vegas for a tournament and play against a junior who was being cheered on by his family and coach. And every point I missed was being celebrated. And the junior and I were either close in level or the junior was the better player.

At this point in order to not give up and go home, I had to cheer for myself. So don't get me wrong, I 100% understand what Harimoto is doing. There is just something extra loud about the way he does it that is over the top on volume. And no one liked it either when Lin Gaoyuan or Bernadette Szocs were loud but it is something you get used to. And I don't mind if people are okay with it or people are not okay with it. What I am disappointed in is when people say that you are morally bankrupt for not being okay with it. What Harimoto does by being so loud is something I would rather not see. But if it is legal so be it.
 
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I used to travel a lot to play tournaments. Sometimes I would end up in a "hostile" club and have to play one of their up and coming juniors. Then the coach and the crowd would be cheering them against me. Or I would travel to Vegas for a tournament and play against a junior who was being cheered on by his family and coach. And every point I missed was being celebrated. And the junior and I were either close in level or the junior was the better player.

At this point in order to not give up and go home, I had to cheer for myself. So don't get me wrong, I 100% understand what Harimoto is doing. There is just something extra loud about the way he does it that is over the top on volume. And no one liked it either when Lin Gaoyuan or Bernadette Szocs were loud but it is something you get used to. And I don't mind if people are okay with it or people are not okay with it. What I am disappointed in is when people say that you are morally bankrupt for not being okay with it. What Harimoto does by being so loud is something I would rather not see. But if it is legal so be it.

Yeah. I think this is a fair point. There are two sides to the coin. The kid can be over the top. I don't like the shaming. But maybe shaming the shamers is not good either. :) Despite my initial reaction to the way the OP was presented, I think there are two sides to this issue. It just needs some balance.
 
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says toooooo much choice!!
says toooooo much choice!!
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Yeah. I think this is a fair point. There are two sides to the coin. The kid can be over the top. I don't like the shaming. But maybe shaming the shamers is not good either. :) Despite my initial reaction to the way the OP was presented, I think there are two sides to this issue. It just needs some balance.

I literally FORCED myself to watch the Harimoto / Ma Long match highlights last night!!! Great match with the TV volume down!! Even better with the volume OFF!!!;););)
without volume I was actually hoping he would pull off the victory!! Few too many errors, and you could see it in his face. He’s definitely, just gotta win big soon!!!!
 
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I have experienced that too. There is a guy who I have played quite a few times ( a friend of sorts) who trash talks while playing even in tournament matches. It takes me off my game but I am determined to conquer it when we meet again.

There’s a gentleman that I’ve played a few times now, he is doing really well to be playing at his age, gotta be mid to late 70’s, and typical of his generation, he is a real gentleman, on and off table. Just an all round nice fella!!
He’s a weaker player than myself and the other members in the team I play for. (Both my team mates are stronger players than myself)

He does love to trash talk during the match, but in such a really very pleasant way!!! 1st time I played him, 1st set I found myself down 9 - 2 in the blink of an eye!!! Got a grip and just lost the set 12 - 10, concentrated and won the next 3 reasonably easily. But I really had to block out his comments!!! Which were funny and friendly, but in a sort of intimidating way??!!!
My team mates also won their matches against him but both went all the way!! One just won setting in the 5th!!
Next time out against him, I knew what to expect and won 3 - 0, but the others still gave up the 1st set, before getting a grip and winning.

At first you find yourself thinking ‘best not go too hard on the old timer’ ( no disrespect, I’ll be over the moon to be playing at 75+).
Then the chit chat starts and your not fully concentrating and playing his game not yours!!
 
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Voted disrespectful since it was a yes or no question.

In reality I think disrespectful might be a little strong of a word. Rather I'd just say it's bad manners or poor etiquette given he does it on every point including unforced errors. Furthermore, I think a lot of it's forced and not genuine. I don't think you need to cho that loud to pump yourself up. So if it sounds like I'm calling him fake in that regard? Yes I am.

I have to ask is there no limit to the amount of choing that is socially acceptable? What if someone cho's even louder? Cho's on average twice as long as Harimoto typically does? Three times long? What if they cho four times as long as he typically does? etc. Is there really no point to where we can all agree in saying "Okay that's uncalled for." Certainly we're all of the believe that at some point it's too much right? Well I'm of the opinion that Harimoto crossed that line quite some time time ago given I've never seen anybody before nor since him take it to that level.

Now by all accounts he's a well mannered great kid and obviously world class talent. I'm glad to hear this. But it seems to me at often fans of his get all butt hurt over another not liking his style. Is that really so shocking given his one of a kind choing? You'd have to expect it. So for people out there who are a fan, if you like him? Cool. Like him and enjoy. For me? I like his quality of play but the choing thing I think he makes an ass out of himself.
 
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Voted disrespectful since it was a yes or no question.

In reality I think disrespectful might be a little strong of a word. Rather I'd just say it's bad manners or poor etiquette given he does it on every point including unforced errors. Furthermore, I think a lot of it's forced and not genuine. I don't think you need to cho that loud to pump yourself up. So if it sounds like I'm calling him fake in that regard? Yes I am.

I have to ask is there no limit to the amount of choing that is socially acceptable? What if someone cho's even louder? Cho's on average twice as long as Harimoto typically does? Three times long? What if they cho four times as long as he typically does? etc. Is there really no point to where we can all agree in saying "Okay that's uncalled for." Certainly we're all of the believe that at some point it's too much right? Well I'm of the opinion that Harimoto crossed that line quite some time time ago given I've never seen anybody before nor since him take it to that level.

Now by all accounts he's a well mannered great kid and obviously world class talent. I'm glad to hear this. But it seems to me at often fans of his get all butt hurt over another not liking his style. Is that really so shocking given his one of a kind choing? You'd have to expect it. So for people out there who are a fan, if you like him? Cool. Like him and enjoy. For me? I like his quality of play but the choing thing I think he makes an ass out of himself.

This post encapsulates most of what is now being discussed on this thread, and does it well at that. What people feel about his choing has been well detailed by both sides on this thread so I will comment on two things less relevant to the OP.

One, is that I don't feel that I've ever seen him cho on unforced errors. Unforced errors are extremely, extremely rare at the world class level, and a lot of errors that people see and might interpret as "unforced" actually were forced in some way perhaps too subtle to catch when watching highlights. That being said, I don't think I've ever seen him cho on something like an opponent's missed serve but I could be wrong.

Second thing is, I think his "fans" (of which I don't consider myself one necessarily) are less bothered by the fact that people don't like his choing, but more that the topic gets brought up time and time again, usually in a complaining manner. I have not seen any serious suggestions on what can and should be done about it, and when I tried to start that topic on this thread, there was nothing. So it can give people the impression of "haters will hate" even if that's not what is really happening. His choing is what it is, and he has been on the international scene for several years now so everyone knows he does it. It is nothing new to anybody. And the discussion seems to degrade into the same trope "Harimoto's choing is disrespectful, annoying, blah blah..". And it's this dull and repetitive discussion that gets met with a poor response, the same as what happens with any other dull and repetitive topics of discussion.
 
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Does a boxer congratulate himself every time he lands a punch? Winning a point is only 1/44th of the work... A ping pong player should at least win a game before any form of celebration, otherwise you're just setting yourself up for disappointment and you look stupid. Preferably you should wait until the end of the match then scream all you like.

So, disrespectful? I don't know. Stupid? A little bit.
 
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says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
Well-Known Member
Sep 2011
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Where is MOG and the comments about flogging a DEAD horse ???

dead horse 1.jpg
 
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What should be done?
Nothing major at first maybe some warnings after the game as he doesn't dima moan during the point so it would be unfair to do anything about fairly won points.

I suspect maybe they should withhold earnings if he gets more than x warnings at first. This shouldn't affect him as most his cash will be sponsorship, just to let him know it's serious.

How do define it as an issue? Well let's limit choing to a reasonable amount. So only maybe 4-5 per set at most. And volume wise he should get a warning if it could affect games on other tables significantly.

Maybe if fines don't work consider like football a system for disallowed entry to the next tournament of note after accumulated sportsmanship issues.

But I dont think it'd fair to remove points or results for sportsmanship issues as he still won the point fair and square.

I wasnt to point out I don't want him to be banned from anything just hopefully it wouldn't get to that point.
 
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