Which long pips

[Basmundo]

For a disruptive backhand with good control and the ability to roll the occasional topspin, which of these two rubbers and should it be OX or with a little sponge (Approx. 1.0mm):

Grass D.Techs
Hellfire (not X)

[merlin el mago]

Always OX more dangerous for the opponents, Grass D.Tecs more speed so more difficult to control.

[Kuba Hajto]

I think most people will recommend you a OX, but having some sponge helps. Gluing them without is a bit of pain. If you are used to glueing any other rubber, then having any sponge will make it easier.

EDIT: I am not suggesting you to not use OX. I am trying to bring to your attention a factor that may affect your decision.

[Basmundo]

I think most people will recommend you a OX, but having some sponge helps. Gluing them without is a bit of pain. If you are used to glueing any other rubber, then having any sponge will make it easier.

EDIT: I am not suggesting you to not use OX. I am trying to bring to your attention a factor that may affect your decision.

Thank you. Good point.

[Basmundo]

Always OX more dangerous for the opponents, Grass D.Tecs more speed so more difficult to control.

Doesn't a little sponge (0.5 - 1.0mm) slow down the rubber a little and give more control to allow short pushes etc without reducing the disruption too much, plus allow some topspin roll shots?

[Lula]

How Do you want to play?

[LordPippington]

Doesn't a little sponge (0.5 - 1.0mm) slow down the rubber a little and give more control to allow short pushes etc without reducing the disruption too much, plus allow some topspin roll shots?

It's a sliding scale

DISRUPTION ...................... CONTROL
-----0--------------------------------------------------------

Any sort of sponge is going to slide it over to the right side, which usually reduces difficulty for the opponent. Do you think you're going to passive block and let the rubber do the "magic" funk? Do you want to hit with more speed? To me, slow blocks are fairly worthless most of the time. You rarely see it done against good players. I would suggest picking the fastest one you can handle and sticking with it. If all you usually do is slow, dead blocks... they'll just step closer to the table.

And if you want super slower blocks with reversal, just use frictionless anti spin

[Basmundo]

How Do you want to play?

Hello Lula. Glad to have you on the case1

Play is long pips on the backhand used aggressively with blocks and pushes, mixing up short and soft plus fast and long to achieve setups for the forehand kill with power loops and smashes using a moderately fast rubber (say Dynaryz ACC) . Also would prefer to be able to roll topspins with the backhand, hence thinking of having 0.5 - 1.0mm sponge to give the required amount of control with a reasonable amount of disruption to go with the placement mentioned above.

[Basmundo]

It's a sliding scale

DISRUPTION ...................... CONTROL
-----0--------------------------------------------------------

Any sort of sponge is going to slide it over to the right side, which usually reduces difficulty for the opponent. Do you think you're going to passive block and let the rubber do the "magic" funk? Do you want to hit with more speed? To me, slow blocks are fairly worthless most of the time. You rarely see it done against good players. I would suggest picking the fastest one you can handle and sticking with it. If all you usually do is slow, dead blocks... they'll just step closer to the table.

And if you want super slower blocks with reversal, just use frictionless anti spin

Sounds like Grass D.Techs then as I think I will need the speed because I am used to fairly fast reverse rubbers on the backhand such a T05FX, Rhyzer 43 etc. The question is whether to have 0.5 or 0.9mm sponge as mentioned in my previous post. The blade I have for this purpose is the Dr Neubauer Phenomenon.

[PushSmasher]

Always OX more dangerous for the opponents, Grass D.Tecs more speed so more difficult to control.

Hey merlin el mango. I noticed in your profile you are using GD Talon National Team. i use to use it as well, but changed when they stopped selling it. Are you still using it?

Basmundo, I'd personally recommend starting with OX, and when you get experience with it, then perhaps experiment with sponge. To make it easier to install, you can get excellent glue sheets that make it simple to install. Nittaku makes a good one.

[Basmundo]

Hey merlin el mango. I noticed in your profile you are using GD Talon National Team. i use to use it as well, but changed when they stopped selling it. Are you still using it?

Basmundo, I'd personally recommend starting with OX, and when you get experience with it, then perhaps experiment with sponge. To make it easier to install, you can get excellent glue sheets that make it simple to install. Nittaku makes a good one.

That's interesting as I was thinking that it might be best to start with 0.5/0.9 sponge to tame it a little and give me more control. I was hoping that it would still be reasonably quick enough for fast long pushes/blocks. It sounds from what you are saying that it might dumb it down too much.
Also no mention of anyone using Hellfire. Is this because it is slower I wonder?

[yogi_bear]

Double Fish 1615 or Stiga Vertical LP

[Lula]

Do not really Think this a good playing style with long pimples with friction and the plastic ball. Think with this style you need to be more aggressive due to less spin. Never heard of anyone that play pushblock with sponge. Maybe easier to attack but I think lose much disruption and backspin close to the table. Maybe better to attack their backspin aggressive instead?

[brokenball]

I am an experienced LP player.
What is disruption?
What force causes disruption?
Much of this is BS.

I could play with LPs in a tournament and win lots of matches against players that have no experience playing against a push blocker. However I find it difficult to play against my regular practice partners because they know how to counter the LPs. On top of that, everyone says I play much better using double inverted.
A LP player must learn how to twiddle or be fast enough to step to their BH side to hit with their FH.
I have Firewall+ blades with Giant Dragon Talon 0X on the BH side.
I also have a Donic Defplay with TSP Curl PR1 1.4 mm on the BH.
I could chop and give people that don't know to return chopped balls fits but that won't work against the more experience plays.

Push block or chop for fun but if you are serious the play with double inverted or inverted with SP.

[Lula]

I agree that much more important to have good forehand with long pips backhand or/and to be able to pushblock aggressive against their backspin. Feel like to many people put on long pimple without no reason and many lp users are way to bad to attack So the opponent is not afraid for anything and can basically lob the ball in.

[Basmundo]

I am an experienced LP player.
What is disruption?
What force causes disruption?
Much of this is BS.

I could play with LPs in a tournament and win lots of matches against players that have no experience playing against a push blocker. However I find it difficult to play against my regular practice partners because they know how to counter the LPs. On top of that, everyone says I play much better using double inverted.
A LP player must learn how to twiddle or be fast enough to step to their BH side to hit with their FH.
I have Firewall+ blades with Giant Dragon Talon 0X on the BH side.
I also have a Donic Defplay with TSP Curl PR1 1.4 mm on the BH.
I could chop and give people that don't know to return chopped balls fits but that won't work against the more experience plays.

Push block or chop for fun but if you are serious the play with double inverted or inverted with SP.

Thank you for your comments.
I should go back to the beginning. I have been playing double revere rubber for some time and have fairly advanced rubbers Tenergy 05. Rhyzer Pro 45 etc. My forehand is quite powerful with a good loop/loop drive etc and my backhand is reasonable for pushing and looping and good for blocking. I also have a bat with reversed on the forehand and SP on the backhand that I can play with quite well.
I am not achieving the match results that I want to and wanted to try something different to achieve more wins. I have tried a friends bat with reversed on the forehand and Grass D.Techs on the backhand, and again I adjusted to it quite well.
My aim in using long pips is to work the opponent aggressively with the backhand to achieve a suitable ball to put away with the forehand. I already have a blade to use, (Dr Neubauer Phenomenon), and I am quite happy with making the forehand rubber choice, probably Dynaryz ACC. What I need most of all is advice on what LP would most suit the aggressive defensive style that I want to adopt to get back high or long balls from my opponent that I can use to open up or kill with the forehand. I am happy to sacrifice backhand topspin if necessary and look for maximum disruption (whatever that is) and control of the opponent with a mixture of short returns, long aggressive blocks/pushes etc.
I had settled on Grass D.Techs or Hellfire but there have been other suggestion thrown into the mix. Could those who know better help me go in the right direction with my choice please.

[merlin el mago]

Hey merlin el mango. I noticed in your profile you are using GD Talon National Team. i use to use it as well, but changed when they stopped selling it. Are you still using it?

Yes, luckily got a couple of sheets here in Catalonia from a local seller, now it's very difficult to get more in Europe what I guees still there is some in the Asian market.

[merlin el mago]

@Basmundo
My point of view is that LP are a defensive weapon, the more sponge you put becomes more similar to inverted: so why if I want LP to block & chop? The same to loop with LP: surpresive when you do the 3-4 strokes after isn't dangerous: so why to use LP better use inverted.

[Basmundo]

@Basmundo
My point of view is that LP are a defensive weapon, the more sponge you put becomes more similar to inverted: so why if I want LP to block & chop? The same to loop with LP: surpresive when you do the 3-4 strokes after isn't dangerous: so why to use LP better use inverted.

OK thanks. I didn't realise that sponge would normalise the LP so much. So that is one decision made: OX. I just need to decide on which rubber to suit my game plan described above now.

[brokenball]

Thank you for your comments.
I should go back to the beginning. I have been playing double revere rubber for some time and have fairly advanced rubbers Tenergy 05. Rhyzer Pro 45 etc. My forehand is quite powerful with a good loop/loop drive etc and my backhand is reasonable for pushing and looping and good for blocking. I also have a bat with reversed on the forehand and SP on the backhand that I can play with quite well.
I am not achieving the match results that I want to and wanted to try something different to achieve more wins. I have tried a friends bat with reversed on the forehand and Grass D.Techs on the backhand, and again I adjusted to it quite well.
My aim in using long pips is to work the opponent aggressively with the backhand to achieve a suitable ball to put away with the forehand. I already have a blade to use, (Dr Neubauer Phenomenon), and I am quite happy with making the forehand rubber choice, probably Dynaryz ACC. What I need most of all is advice on what LP would most suit the aggressive defensive style that I want to adopt to get back high or long balls from my opponent that I can use to open up or kill with the forehand. I am happy to sacrifice backhand topspin if necessary and look for maximum disruption (whatever that is) and control of the opponent with a mixture of short returns, long aggressive blocks/pushes etc.
I had settled on Grass D.Techs or Hellfire but there have been other suggestion thrown into the mix. Could those who know better help me go in the right direction with my choice please.

I doubt LPs are the answer for you.
It appears you can play decently with double inverted.
You will probably make a lot of errors from using LPs that will cost you as much or more than the opponent.
I really don't think you should play with LPs. The questions is....
Will you win because LP make you a better player or will you win because the opponent just doesn't know how to play against LPs.
I think it is better to become a better player than to rely on other's weaknesses.
My advice is to make a video and analyze it for your flaws. What flaw costs you the most points? From your statements it seems that even a session or two of coaching may point out your weaknesses that are costing you the most points.

I play with double inverted now.