Covid-19 outbreak at US table tennis tournament

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Not if you have basic reading comprehension skills. I was throwing out possibilities to explain this year's massive increase in deaths. I am allowing that not all of them are a direct result of that dead person being infected with SARS-COV-2 (300 K are, though, at least). I said nothing about lockdowns (but I think in extreme cases like now in parts of the US certain restrictions are called for).

You are the guy who has a history of posts here implying that: masks are bad, restrictions are bad, only old people die, or if people get sick it's because they eat too much sugar. Your attitude is clear. Shouldn't you be back watching Fox or Newsmax or wherever you're getting these ideas? You are certainly not doing anybody here any good, and yes I have a professional basis for understanding the details of most of these studies, and I read hundreds of them, I don't cherry pick them, and I am often able to assess where they fall short (not always but often).

I am not debating you on this anymore. I have run out of patience.
Yes, you were throwing out possibilities but you bunched them altogether in a way that made them all sound like inevitable consequences of covid19, not making a serious distinction between the consequences of covid19 and the consequences of our responses to covid19. That was my view and I apologize if I read it wrong.

Ascribing a death to covid19 without a positive test: there is potential for errors here (I have pointed out the issues with PCR testing elsewhere), but I will accept the 300K for now. Moreover, one of the interesting things that we see in states where deaths are provided both by date of occurrence is that some deaths are classified as covid19 deaths 3-4 months after they occurred. No one has provided a good explanation for this, but it is just weird.

Masks are bad: Mask are definitely being oversold by their supporters. I don't call them bad so much as I think the mandates don't have good evidence supporting them either as source control or as protection - I am happy with recommendations to wear a mask if there are no other options and you are sick or need to protect yourself. I have shown that the CDC has gone out of its way to use bad evidence to justify the effectiveness of mask mandates in Kansas. They did similarly poor analysis in Arizona. And the fact that you still haven't responded to the silliness of Robert Redfield saying that masks would end the pandemic is telling. Masks have areas of use where they are likely helpful, but as a population wide measure for pandemic control, the effect of mandates in the data is much smaller than many of its advocates pretend they are and is possibly negative.

Restrictions are bad: Again, I never said this. The question again is what is the evidence that supports the restrictions. You may not have kids, but the question of whether schools should be closed has come up. There were mandates in California to close playgrounds - again, what is the evidence for that? I am personally okay with restrictions on the maximum size of large indoor gatherings/events during an ILI pandemic, for example. In those environments, transmission from one person to many people is possible in a short window of time and this can tax the medical system. My issue isn't with restrictions, my issue is with restrictions that are enforced by law that have a very poor evidence base supporting them. Telling people to close pubs by 10pm or stupid stuff like that. Or wearing masks while jogging to Timbuktu across the Sahara desert.

Only old people die: Again, not true. I said that the deaths don't affect life expectancy in most populations. Therefore, most of the people who are dying already had a high probability of dying (the impact of covid19 is felt most heavily in nursing homes). This doesn't mean only old people get affected by it or die from it, but that most people who die from it are close to the end of life in general. Here are the covid19 statistics
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#AgeAndSex
This doesn't mean their death is trivial, but it calls into question all kinds of things about public policy.

If people get sick it is because they eat too much sugar: I have pointed out that most of the comorbidities associated with a higher risk of death from covid19 are all tied to metabolic syndrome, which is a syndrome driven largely by the processed food diet in America that causes heart disease, hypertension, diabetes, obesity, cancer etc. The two primary drivers of this syndrome in the American diet are the excess consumption of seed oils (too much Omega 6/linoleic acid) and too much carbohydrates). I can see that it is a stretch to most people to argue that limiting the consumption of both would improve your health and reduce your risk for covid19, but I think the view that these foods are not helping our health will become more mainstream with time.

Fox and Newsmax: I don't watch either. I have watched bits and clips of various things on Youtube but watch more Time/CNN than Fox for coverage. and I didn't even know Newsmax existed until after the election. Have never watched it and have no interesting in doing so.

I respect your professional basis. What I don't get is why you think it is all that matters. Do you think your professional basis allows you to determine whether it is best for kids to go to school or not during the pandemic? Do you think intelligent laymen have no chance of reading and making sense of statistical studies (I have an engineering degree, which means I have done more mathematics than many people who have advanced science degrees)? I don't pretend to know every detail of what is required to run a large clinical trial (my wife does but that is besides the point) but if one remembers how all this mess with covid19 started - there were originally projections that the US would see death tolls as high as 2 million if it did nothing coming from the Imperial College models as adapted to the US. I got into this when I saw Michael Levitt's position that Covid19 was closer to a 1 month of excess death than 1 year of excess death. While most people say he was wrong on this or that detail, I have found his overall assessment of things closer to what is happening that many of the experts like Osterholm.

My main issue is that a lot was done that didn't try to take into account its impact on those people who couldn't advocate for themselves. Children, small business owners, students etc. Bad government was a part of it for sure. I suspect that in a year or two, we might find out something abojut covid19 that was never publicly disclosed that justifies all this. because right now, I am comfused when I look at the data and the measures we have taken. And I still don't understand why using the science that Disneyworld and Florida are open, but Disneyland and California are closed.
 
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...in the tradition of Thomas Sowell and Walter Williams...

Damn, those are two of the best USA minds in Economics and Social issues that our nation has seen in a many years. Both of those cats can articulate and express common sense and analysis of facts.
 
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Damn, those are two of the best USA minds in Economics and Social issues that our nation has seen in a many years. Both of those cats can articulate and express common sense and analysis of facts.

Walter Williams died two weeks ago, RIP.
 
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So obviously it is impossible to give evidence about the outcome of things that didn't happen. Try this thought experiment.

Imagine the USA was governed by the CCP with the full powers the CCP exercises in China, and our initial disease outbreak had been the same, Covid circulating here October 2019, exploding in Seattle NYC etc.

In that scenario, do you think right now our economic, societal, and mortality results would be closer to China's, or closer to what we are actually experiencing?

It is impossible to ever know or prove in any way.
My personal guess is that the CCP would have done much better. People would clearly have had much less freedom in deciding how to react individually or in groups. But if the disease had been controlled we would all have more freedom this winter.

This year has made me seriously question for the first time the value of individual freedom as a contributor to societal well-being and the sum total of human happiness.
 
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So obviously it is impossible to give evidence about the outcome of things that didn't happen. Try this thought experiment.

Imagine the USA was governed by the CCP with the full powers the CCP exercises in China, and our initial disease outbreak had been the same, Covid circulating here October 2019, exploding in Seattle NYC etc.

In that scenario, do you think right now our economic, societal, and mortality results would be closer to China's, or closer to what we are actually experiencing?

It is impossible to ever know or prove in any way.
My personal guess is that the CCP would have done much better. People would clearly have had much less freedom in deciding how to react individually or in groups. But if the disease had been controlled we would all have more freedom this winter.

This year has made me seriously question for the first time the value of individual freedom as a contributor to societal well-being and the sum total of human happiness.

I don't think it is impossible to know either way - I think that in reality, few people are interested in knowing. For example, you haven't acknowledged or challenged my point that all the East Asian countries, whether they be Japan, Korea, Cambodia, China, Singapore, Taiwan, Vietnam, Thailand etc. seem to be doing relatively well regardless of the specific measures taken.

I think that you can frame the experiment in a variety of ways. Then you can weight those factors insightfully.

1. You can look at susceptible demographics and how they live. Which country has more old people, higher obesity and other comorbidities, more nursing homes, and more elderly people living with young people or other old people vs living alone?

2. How many countries in contiguous areas have had radically different pandemic results and what have they done differently?

3. Is everyone reporting their data the same way using the same standards?

There are more things, but for whatever reason, it is only NPIs and results people are looking at. China seems to have few cases so China did it right. Is it possible that China has a less susceptible population or environment for some reason not yet considered? It's almost an abdication of analytical thinking.

This year has led me to the opposite conclusion from yourself. Again, looking at Florida. DeSantis has tried as hard as possible to remove the mandates that prevent businesses from operating. You would expect based on what people say about the virus that Florida would turn out to be much worse than states where greater controls are. In fact, it is largely the opposite. Yet the media makes DeSantis out to be a murderer.

It's quite possible that DeSantis has some advantages with Florida weather for example. He definitely has an older and more susceptible demographic. But no one even seems to care to look at variables. Maybe later in the flu season, Florida will get hit. But right now, he is being pilloried even when he is doing better.

The problem for me is that there is too much lying going on. Here is an example:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-new-mexico-controlled-the-spread-of-covid-19/

Now New Mexico is no longer doing as well. Its death rates and case rates have gone up. Yet no one is retracting that article. Why?

I just want people to continue to look at all the data. I won't lie that having more than 300K (well 330k to be precise) deaths excess (which was my limit for concern) is troubling. My question now is how much of that is virus, and how much of that is bad control measures?
 
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There are clearly excess deaths. 300K deaths is quite a bit so the issue becomes about cause and whether the approach taken to address covid19 made thing better or made things worse. But I will discuss this later when I have time. Right now I am being accused of watching TV channels that I never watch.

300K is a lot but did you look at the John Hopkins University news letter I posted? The number of deaths this year is not significantly higher than the years before. There is NO massive increase as Baal asserted. Most of these deaths occur in older folks with pre-existing conditions that probably would have died of these other conditions soon anyway so that is why the 300K CCP-virus deaths hasn't significantly increased the total number of deaths.

I provided the JHU data and data from my county. Yes, the CCP-virus is a problem but it really is a matter of what kills you first. The overall rate of deaths hasn't changed that much. That is my point.

I have been keeping track of the numbers from ncov2019.live on an excel spread sheet. The 20 day mortality rate is currently 1.89% but it varies between 1.7% and 2%. 1.89% of 6.761M people is what?
Add that to the existing deaths and you will arrive at a number of deaths in about 5-6 weeks barring significant impact from the vaccine.
From this you can see that most of the 1.89% are going to be older people with pre-existing conditions
https://www.heritage.org/data-visualizations/public-health/covid-19-deaths-by-age/
The article claims that 95% of the death were people 50+.
https://www.aarp.org/health/conditions-treatments/info-2020/coronavirus-deaths-older-adults.html
What about the younger workers who lives have been ruined by the lock downs?
Many of you are in this category. Don't think that the governments can bail out everybody.

I object to the lock downs. I do think we should wear mask. I do because even if they aren't 100% effective they may reduce the initial loading.
I think Sweden had the right idea.

BTW, even the common flu can have side effects. I met a guy that was a roofer. He caught the flu and the virus damaged his heart so the ejection ratio dropped. He was in his 40s and couldn't be a roofer or do much of anything after that except have some heart attacks. I doubt he lasted a year after getting the flu.
 
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300K is a lot but did you look at the John Hopkins University news letter I posted? The number of deaths this year is not significantly higher than the years before. There is NO massive increase as Baal asserted. Most of these deaths occur in older folks with pre-existing conditions that probably would have died of these other conditions soon anyway so that is why the 300K CCP-virus deaths hasn't significantly increased the total number of deaths.

I provided the JHU data and data from my county. Yes, the CCP-virus is a problem but it really is a matter of what kills you first. The overall rate of deaths hasn't changed that much. That is my point.

I have been keeping track of the numbers from ncov2019.live on an excel spread sheet. The 20 day mortality rate is currently 1.89% but it varies between 1.7% and 2%. 1.89% of 6.761M people is what?
Add that to the existing deaths and you will arrive at a number of deaths in about 5-6 weeks barring significant impact from the vaccine.
From this you can see that most of the 1.89% are going to be older people with pre-existing conditions
https://www.heritage.org/data-visualizations/public-health/covid-19-deaths-by-age/
The article claims that 95% of the death were people 50+.
https://www.aarp.org/health/conditions-treatments/info-2020/coronavirus-deaths-older-adults.html
What about the younger workers who lives have been ruined by the lock downs?
Many of you are in this category. Don't think that the governments can bail out everybody.

I object to the lock downs. I do think we should wear mask. I do because even if they aren't 100% effective they may reduce the initial loading.
I think Sweden had the right idea.

BTW, even the common flu can have side effects. I met a guy that was a roofer. He caught the flu and the virus damaged his heart so the ejection ratio dropped. He was in his 40s and couldn't be a roofer or do much of anything after that except have some heart attacks. I doubt he lasted a year after getting the flu.
Yes, I am familiar with the analysis that Briand did. I actually watched her video on youtube before it got taken off. I think she made many good points, but that she should have quantified what she meant because her statement on excess deaths got taken literally and it was in some ways misleading.

A lot rides on how you look at the 300K extra deaths. Her main point was that given the death profile of covid, which we know largely affects older people, you would expect to see tons of older people dying as a percentage of overall death. But when you look at the data, you may think that the media is exaggerating the effect. It could go either way, but again, I ask people if they have the skills to play around with the data.

https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Death-Counts-by-Sex-Age-and-S/9bhg-hcku

In fact, as you get older, you just die of more things, including covid19. Here is my excel partitioning of the data. Covid doesn't seem to be radically distributing its impact in a way that is different from All cause mortality. Obviously, with demographic data, and adding more causal factors, and depending on how you think the measures taken so far have worked, one can arrive at a variety of conclusions. But I strongly encourage people to if they have data analysis skills to spend some time with the data. Many cities/ states publish data on covid deaths and hospitalizations. It helps to put in context what people tell you is going on.


Row LabelsSum of COVID-19 DeathsSum of Total Deaths% of deaths from covid% of covid/total covid% of all deaths vs total deaths
Under 1 year 29 15,1870.19%0.01%0.56%
1-4 years 17 2,8230.60%0.01%0.10%
5-14 years 46 4,5401.01%0.02%0.17%
15-24 years 449 29,1671.54%0.17%1.08%
25-34 years 1,909 59,6763.20%0.73%2.21%
35-44 years 4,917 84,3975.83%1.88%3.12%
45-54 years 13,080 153,6218.51%5.00%5.68%
55-64 years 31,973 352,5629.07%12.23%13.04%
65-74 years 55,985 536,98210.43%21.41%19.86%
75-84 years 70,815 654,48210.82%27.08%24.21%
85 years and over 82,310 809,79510.16%31.47%29.96%
Grand Total 261,530 2,703,2329.67%100.00%100.00%

<tbody>
</tbody>
 
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300K is a lot but did you look at the John Hopkins University news letter I posted? The number of deaths this year is not significantly higher than the years before. There is NO massive increase as Baal asserted. Most of these deaths occur in older folks with pre-existing conditions that probably would have died of these other conditions soon anyway so that is why the 300K CCP-virus deaths hasn't significantly increased the total number of deaths.

I provided the JHU data and data from my county. Yes, the CCP-virus is a problem but it really is a matter of what kills you first. The overall rate of deaths hasn't changed that much. That is my point.

I have been keeping track of the numbers from ncov2019.live on an excel spread sheet. The 20 day mortality rate is currently 1.89% but it varies between 1.7% and 2%. 1.89% of 6.761M people is what?
Add that to the existing deaths and you will arrive at a number of deaths in about 5-6 weeks barring significant impact from the vaccine.
From this you can see that most of the 1.89% are going to be older people with pre-existing conditions
https://www.heritage.org/data-visualizations/public-health/covid-19-deaths-by-age/
The article claims that 95% of the death were people 50+.
https://www.aarp.org/health/conditions-treatments/info-2020/coronavirus-deaths-older-adults.html
What about the younger workers who lives have been ruined by the lock downs?
Many of you are in this category. Don't think that the governments can bail out everybody.

I object to the lock downs. I do think we should wear mask. I do because even if they aren't 100% effective they may reduce the initial loading.
I think Sweden had the right idea.

BTW, even the common flu can have side effects. I met a guy that was a roofer. He caught the flu and the virus damaged his heart so the ejection ratio dropped. He was in his 40s and couldn't be a roofer or do much of anything after that except have some heart attacks. I doubt he lasted a year after getting the flu.

The CDC has lost credibility with me too, but not about the excess deaths issue.

See this also


https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-chart-us-death-figures-2020-idUSKBN2872MV

As for Sweden, the government there has finally had enough of Dr. Tegnell and are starting to listen to their academic epidemiologists, who have largely opposed his policies.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...nt-sidelines-epidemiologist-steered-countrys/
 
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There are people here (one in particular) saying (in essence) that Covid-19 is no big deal, go about your lives, masks don't work, there's no extra mortality, and if there is an increase it's only old people, and the notion of long term health consequences is a scare tactic, and nothing can prevent the spread of the virus anyway (this last being nuanced, the virus will spread, the issue is how fast).

In fact every one of these statements is demonstrably wrong, not based on one study, but by an abundance of work using multiple approaches (which depending on what they measure vary in the magnitudes of effects they measure, as is always the case).

What is true is that Covid-19 can make you very sick and very dead, things get worse when people congregate, and some environments are more dangerous than others. Don't take my word for it, listen to academic public health experts who don't owe their job to staking out a particular position on these issues (they don't work for any government as a political appointee).

I'm now through. Listen to me or not. Your choice. Just know that this winter is going to be horrific and I hope everybody stays healthy.

Regardless of what government policies are in place where you live, you can control what you do. And hopefully we can limit these incredible surges in sick people that can completely overwhelm our health care systems.
 
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I'm now through. Listen to me or not. Your choice. Just know that this winter is going to be horrific and I hope everybody stays healthy.

Regardless of what government policies are in place where you live, you can control what you do. And hopefully we can limit these incredible surges in sick people that can completely overwhelm our health care systems.

I agree, it seems futile to carry on this discussion.

Some just want to argue everything, or try to sound intelligent by putting others down, regardless of the subject. As they say: “A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still”...

Back to table tennis...
 
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There are people here (one in particular) saying (in essence) that Covid-19 is no big deal, go about your lives, masks don't work, there's no extra mortality, and if there is an increase it's only old people, and the notion of long term health consequences is a scare tactic, and nothing can prevent the spread of the virus anyway (this last being nuanced, the virus will spread, the issue is how fast).

In fact every one of these statements is demonstrably wrong, not based on one study, but by an abundance of work using multiple approaches (which depending on what they measure vary in the magnitudes of effects they measure, as is always the case).

What is true is that Covid-19 can make you very sick and very dead, things get worse when people congregate, and some environments are more dangerous than others. Don't take my word for it, listen to academic public health experts who don't owe their job to staking out a particular position on these issues (they don't work for any government as a political appointee), if there is an increase it is only old people (I have never said anything of the sort - the argument is that the death impact of covid19 is *mostly* in people who are already close to the end of their lives, and this is not just old people, but is mostly old people),

I'm now through. Listen to me or not. Your choice. Just know that this winter is going to be horrific and I hope everybody stays healthy.

Regardless of what government policies are in place where you live, you can control what you do. And hopefully we can limit these incredible surges in sick people that can completely overwhelm our health care systems.

Every statement you made up there is one that I have never made - the issue is always context. I have never said that:

Covid19 is no big deal (I have said that fear has been used to ramp up compliance with recommendations and mandates, and the fear outstrips the level of risk, which can be placed in context with comparisons to other risks),

go about your lives (yes but this is incontrovertible, understand the recommendations as best you can and apply them to the risk of your situation),

masks don't work (the evidence for the efficacy of masks when mandated universally is weak - mandating masks outdoors doesn't have any evidence to support its efficacy),

the notion of long term health consequences is a scare tactic (no, I said it is being communicated in ways that does not allow people to understand the risk, partly because the people communicating it don't know the risk, but partly as a result of a desire to scare people into compliance. But some of the issues related to circulatory disease are not unusual as a result of respiratory viral infections and I have provided papers and references to support this).

nothing can prevent the spread of the virus anyways ( this is clearly untrue, as I have pointed out that mandates against large gatherings may have an effect, and that I think that vaccination will also have an effect. My point is that the evidence for the measures taken against the coronavirus in general are weaker than advertised and being implemented and sold in ways that promote hysteria and don't encourage people to dispassionately analyze evidence. Moreover, everyone agrees anyways that lockdowns only delay spread if the virus is in the population).

Covid19 can make you very sick and dead - Yes, it can! So can many other diseases, but covid19 can as well. It is dangerous and people should take actions to manage their risk as much as reasonably possible. Focus more on things with good evidence and strong relationships - avoiding large crowds especially indoors, avoiding poorly ventilated spaces with many people or a few infected people, wearing masks when you may expose yourself to other people, raising your level of Vitamin D, the seasonality of the virus etc. Focus less on things with weak evidence - wearing masks while going into large crowds because you think the mask is protecting you, avoiding restaurants with outdoor dining because you think they are riskier than supermarkets or staying at home etc.

Now, all the people who are responding to me, be it Pushsmasher, Baal, BRS or someone else:

None of have explained why Disneyworld is open in Florida and why Disneyland is closed in LA by resorting to science ( obviously, it is a policy decision and it is hard to explain why one is causing more disease than the other).
None have explained why the CDC uses bad data to promote masks, or why Redfield is correct in saying that masking would end the pandemic or that masking is more effective than a vaccine. These are clearly political actions - it doesn't build trust to avoid saying the truth about these things.
None have explained why New Mexico which was doing a great job according to the Scientific American is currently experiencing a bad outbreak.
https://www.npr.org/2020/12/09/944528380/overwhelmed-hospitals-in-new-mexico-consider-rationing-care
None have explained why Germany is currently in lockdown when it was for a period an example of how to do things right while America was doing everything wrong (and by the way, I don't doubt the American government did a lot of stupid things, my issues are tied to evidence based decision making).
None have explained why the "science" of 6ft social distancing is being advocated so strongly for a disease that spreads by aerosols without providing the context.
None have explained why it is prudent to keep children under the age of 12 out of schools - no one has addressed the basis of any cost-benefit analysis of such a serious decision.
In general, no one has explained what kind of cost-benefit calculus goes into the decisions we have taken to address the pandemic.


Jay Bhattacharya, Martin Kulldorff, Stefan Baral, John Ioannidis and Sunetra Gupta are all experts, none of whole have political appointments AFAIK or any motivations tied to politics, and have been accused of making similar statements to what Baal is claiming I am saying. I agree with them and none of them would agree with any of the crazy positions that Baal is attributing to them - everything is nuanced.

Sometimes, mental health/stress trumps the need to isolate away from people. If you are depressed during the times of covid19, avoid thinking that covid19 is so important that you shouldn't figure out ways to have fun or see family. Grandma may want to see you whether she puts herself at risk or not, and if you are both taking reasonable measures, it should be okay. And she may find it more valuable to spend her last days seeing you anyways than to spend time alone away from family. This isn't one size fits all.

Here is a paper analyzing the measures taken in Sweden - it uses the classical public health guidelines to explain Sweden's approach - it doesn't argue Sweden did the right thing, it just argues that these kinds of guidelines need to be explicitly used when thinking through any intervention:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7682427/

It says the following:

"Ultimately, pandemics present no winners. Countries have implemented a range of different COVID-19 prevention and mitigation strategies responsive to their own priorities and legal systems including equity and the balancing of competing health priorities. Given these varied approaches, countries that pursued elimination, suppression, or mitigation strategies can collaboratively learn from both successes and challenges of the different strategies to inform COVID-19 and future pandemic responses."

But in order to learn, we have to be open to thinking through the costs of what we are doing with a risk/benefit analysis. Not an absolutist stance that places covid19 above everything else.
 
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Meanwhile a new strain of the CCP-virus has been found in the UK. Will the vaccines work for all variants of the CCP-virus? What if they don't. Will the despots lock us down forever?
A small town north of me is defying the state despots unconstitutional orders to shut down.
https://www.king5.com/article/news/...ncil/281-6ac39b1b-7251-4313-beb1-77ee6c72e838

I don't know the answer. But the answer may have to do with how the MRNA vaccines that are coming out, work, and what part of the virus they use to create the immune response from the body. So, if the virus changes a certain amount but the spike protein on the vaccine, is not what changes, a vaccine like the Pfizer or Moderna vaccine, should still work.

I think that is right. But, what do I know.

Baal, could you explain how the MRNA vaccines will work?
 
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Walter Williams died two weeks ago, RIP.

The day he died, I started a series of social media posts highlighting some of his important messages about economics, race, society, and socialism through interview vids.

Walt Williams was WELL established as an educator when I was in school and that was before Reagan. He SHOULD have been required reading, instead of "The Jungle" which was in my school.

Very few can so succinctly express facts and common sense applications from data with articulation and brevity in the manner Walt could.
 
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Walt Williams and I would agree on many topics.

Meanwhile the 20 day mortality rate is 1.9%
The number of active cases in the US is 68833466 as of the time I write this.
1.9% of the active cases will die of the CCP-Virus
Add that to those that have died which is 311316 the total is 441322. Not good.
That number assumes that no more people are added to the active cases. The number of active cases needs to go down because the 20 day mortality rate doesn't seem to change much.
I use the 20 day mortality rate instead of the mortality rate from the beginning because doctors have better ways to treat the virus than they did in March and April. The mortality rate from the beginning is 3.01%.
 
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It is not yet known if this new UK variant would be resistant to current vaccines, but most likely this is not a problem. BUT, this variant does produce a change in the SARS-COV-2 S-protein, and the vaccines mostly cause people to make antibodies against that protein. Usually people generate antibodies that target many parts of a viral protein, which is why I'm not super worried about it. Still, it is something that it would be good to study in a lab as soon as possible. As to whether it is an RNA, DNA or conventional protein vaccine doesn't really mater about this issue. We also don't know for sure if this new variant really spreads more readily (or why), but certainly very possible.

It may end up that a yearly Covid-19 shot becomes our routine, as with flu.
 
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Walt Williams and I would agree on many topics.

Meanwhile the 20 day mortality rate is 1.9%
The number of active cases in the US is 68833466 as of the time I write this.
1.9% of the active cases will die of the CCP-Virus
Add that to those that have died which is 311316 the total is 441322. Not good.
That number assumes that no more people are added to the active cases. The number of active cases needs to go down because the 20 day mortality rate doesn't seem to change much.
I use the 20 day mortality rate instead of the mortality rate from the beginning because doctors have better ways to treat the virus than they did in March and April. The mortality rate from the beginning is 3.01%.

Bear in mind that flu season will begin to kick in now too.
 
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It may end up that a yearly Covid-19 shot becomes our routine, as with flu.

all thanks to failures in trying to control the spread of the virus, which could potentially eliminate the virus once and for all. All you need is 1 out of 100 that doesn't fear the virus, and causing the chain to forever continue.

It is the same as why HIV cannot be contained.
Masks and Condom is pretty much the same thing, yet not many use protection where common sense could factor in high risk situations or not.
How much of it is education and how much of it is stupidity.
Humans are known to not follow common sense many times....

The longer the outbreak is, the more complicated for vaccines and the healthcare force. Therefore, humans are forever playing catchup.
This 1 year nightmare can easily become a 5-10 year nightmare.

We have yet to see the true long term side effects of this virus.
The most silly thing I've seen is people just look at the low mortality rate and think "no big deal". Or assuming those death are meant to be dead either way.
I mean, the dead corpse and that funeral could be the source of a next super spreader....

I guess its the same principle in table tennis where you start the match off being 0-3 behind and thinks its okay. Its okay if you forever playing catchup, until its not okay until you are out.
 
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all thanks to failures in trying to control the spread of the virus, which could potentially eliminate the virus once and for all. All you need is 1 out of 100 that doesn't fear the virus, and causing the chain to forever continue.
Don't put the blame on the ordinary guy. It was the CCP and the WHO that colluded to down play the virus that led to the spread. There was a comment about this getting to be political. The CCP and WHO's response to the virus has been political from the start. That is why we are in this mess.

I feel really bad for the people that have lost their jobs due to the virus. I feel even more for the small business owners, what I call main street capitalist, that are going out of business losing their life's savings and possibly being in debt big time. I am a small business owner too but very resiliant and doing much better than the typical small business.

I feel bad for the land lords that took out a loan to buy a duplex or similar only to have the state say that the tenants don't need to pay rent and can't be evicted but the bank that holds the mortage on that duplex doesn't care if the land lord doesn't pay. Many small time land lords will be screwed.
Many renters will NEVER be able to pay back rent.

What should have happened is little. The US Constitution does not make exceptions for pandemics.
Freedom should be safe guarded above all else because the government despots can always make up excuses to take away your freedom.

I am 67 years old. I have multiple risk factors. Yet I have not been hiding in my shell. I have been going to work. When the going gets tough the tough keep going. This is the way it must be for society to survive.

Shutting the the US reduced the GDP by over 30%. It would have been better to keep the economy running as full speed. Yes, more people would die but they are mostly older people that aren't productive anyway and just consuming resourses. They probably were weak from some othe ailment. This lock down BS is crime against the younger generations that are most affected by the shut down but not by the CCP-virus.

Many of you on this forum are younger, much younger than me. Your lives have been ruined by the policticians. It is time you raise the middle finger to the politicians.

I played TT for 1.5 hours today. Screw the virus. Freedom and your rights should come first.
 
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Brokenball, you keep pointing fingers elsewhere, even hinting at xenophobic slurs.

Your freedom to move your fist ends where my nose starts. You’re free to smoke, but not on the bus.

Your behaviour is not setting a good example. You make it sound like a tough guy boast; but it is simply irresponsible.

One may carry, even unknowingly, and infect many. These many may infect many more. At the out of control stage (where we are now) it’s even more important to regain a foothold.

You’re well on the way to 400.000 deaths. The US is now experiencing over one 9/11 every day. But that’s just deaths, and there’s so much more to it.

I write this while on morfine, with pains barely manageable even so, and unable to walk. And I’m not fingerpointing to China. I’m blaming “screw the virus” people like you.

 
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