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    1. Top | #1
      IzetSpin2012 is offline
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      Ma Long service video analysis (Footwork pattern)

      Hello table tennis lovers!

      I made short video analysis on Ma Long's service footwork pattern.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dD1kjGcAr1w

      I spoke in my club with my teammates and most of them agreed to me so we started practicing it. After couple of training sessions we really noticed little difference. We had more time for third ball.

      I would love to hear your opinions. Have you noticed something similar in chinese technique maybe?
      On professional level these things are very basic of course but I don't see european players doing it. Ofc everybody have different technique and that is beauty of this sport but we should try to have most possieble effective technique.
      Last edited by IzetSpin2012; 12-17-2020 at 01:43 AM.

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      burhanayan (3 Weeks Ago),latej (12-17-2020),Tango K (12-17-2020)

    3. Top | #2
      latej is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by IzetSpin2012 View Post
      I would love to hear your opinions. Have you noticed something similar in chinese technique maybe?
      I saw similar video, can't remember where now, and thought about building it into the serve, but didn't quite get to it. Until I saw your video which motivated me again. It is not yet automatic for me though, it will take some time.

      Things I noticed, and explicitly try to focus on, are more basic than what you posted, but will try anyway.

      1. The way Ma Long prepares for topspin. After performing topspin, when he rotates back, to perform the next, his elbow is close to his body. The whole hand is very close to the axis of rotation, and the preparation is quicker. I think it is very pronounced and visible in his pure technique.
      2. The wide stance of Wang Chuqin. They all stay quite wide and low and everybody knows we should too. On him it is very nice, also how the feet point outwards to the sides. I think it pays to try. And to realize when you stand so and when not. And that it feels natural to perform topspin in this stance.
      3. My status. Of the whole kinetic chain, focus on the hip rotation when performing FH topspin, but also BH topspin (at least occasionally). In TT it is perhaps not so pronounced, and if you observe Ma Long, it is there but in some harmonic way. It is good also to try to over-do it, let the upper body and hand follow. The more power you want to put, the more you need the hips. In TTNuri's videos it is more pronounced on baseball and tennis hits. What he doesn't show is Karate, there it is the core of tsuki techniques.

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    5. Top | #3
      vik2000 is offline
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      It's a good analysis but I think all of them are pretty basic stuff. Serve is important but it's one of the few things that's unique to every player. And while maybe the jump isn't as pronounced in some players, every player knows they need to get into position immediately after the serve.

      Bottomline is, Ma Long does a great job at what you showed us, but so does every other pro TT player. This isn't ML's competitive advantage over others.

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    7. Top | #4
      IzetSpin2012 is offline
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      Thanks for feedback guys

    8. Top | #5
      Brs is offline
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      It's a good video. Thank you for making and sharing it.

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    10. Top | #6
      Tango K is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by latej View Post
      his elbow is close to his body. The whole hand is very close to the axis of rotation
      Don’t copy this blindly. I don’t know where you are to dare say but I’ve seen a few of my club mates copying this and get messy. If you are still improving your other things (hip, leg, etc.) then your hand is better going from a normal ready position to where the ball is and snap. Otherwise you’ll get either very stiff, swinging too long, or hooking the ball.

      If you are a counter-looper and determined to counter loop any ball, you get ready your arm very low and close to your body so that in the phase you catch the ball (yin-pai in Chinese, or phase (1)-prepare in European) you only move the arm upward and away from your body, which goes smoothly (i.e. not against) with the swing (snap) regardless of (1) sudden kick of the ball & (2) your decision to make it cross-court or down-the-line. (It’s very hard to read their aim in their ready position.) But you have to be able to have that long movement of catching the ball very well to use that position. (You have to watch the stroke in slowmo and break it down to see it)

      The rest is perfect.

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    12. Top | #7
      latej is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tango K View Post
      Don’t copy this blindly. I don’t know where you are to dare say but I’ve seen a few of my club mates copying this and get messy. If you are still improving your other things (hip, leg, etc.) then your hand is better going from a normal ready position to where the ball is and snap. Otherwise you’ll get either very stiff, swinging too long, or hooking the ball.
      I was speaking about the backward rotation (to prepare for FH topspin).

      ((I've edited the original post where I used names of two players for the purpose of comparison. Later I felt it is inappropriate. Sorry.))

      Quote Originally Posted by Tango K View Post
      If you are a counter-looper and determined to counter loop any ball, you get ready your arm very low and close to your body so that in the phase you catch the ball (yin-pai in Chinese, or phase (1)-prepare in European) you only move the arm upward and away from your body, which goes smoothly (i.e. not against) with the swing (snap) regardless of (1) sudden kick of the ball & (2) your decision to make it cross-court or down-the-line. (It’s very hard to read their aim in their ready position.) But you have to be able to have that long movement of catching the ball very well to use that position. (You have to watch the stroke in slowmo and break it down to see it)
      I agree, especially with your wording "smoothly", that is really important. In fact I'd say that thinking too much about the forward movement of the arm/hand is contra-productive. At least for me it is better to think about hip/body rotation, and just let the arm/hand follow. Thank you for the response.
      Last edited by latej; 12-20-2020 at 12:13 AM.

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    14. Top | #8
      burhanayan is offline
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      OMG! I was thinking of why my 3rd ball attack had been very terrible. Then I saw your post and tried it. Result is awesome!

      Normally the moment when I was ready for the 3rd ball (both feet on the ground), ball was coming back and almost passing the net.

      Now I am ready for 3rd ball, just after the ball goes and passes the net.

      Thank you so much!

    15. Top | #9
      UpSideDownCarl is online now
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      I don't know. I was taught to do that right from the beginning and by more than one western coach. If I don't do it, it is not because I wasn't taught to.

      I was also taught, whether it is serve or any other shot, that, ideally, you are in the ready position for the next shot by the time your shot lands on the opponent's side of the table so you are better able to watch what your opponent does with the ball. So, whether on serve, push, chop or loop, you need to reset fast and get ready for what your opponent does with the ball.

      So, it is nice to see that ML has fast feet and gets ready fast. But, most high level players know that you need to reset and get into the ready position as fast as possible in table tennis.

      Also, in TT, a good serve motion will get your weight moving towards the ready position in the first place. So, if you look, the direction of ML's body movement helps bring him there as well. That is part of the movement.
      Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 3 Weeks Ago at 02:36 AM.
      Spin Everything.

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    17. Top | #10
      Lula is offline
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      always good when people do tabletennis videos! personally i really like the 1,2,3 - everything becomes very clear then. Also good that you used slow motion and illustrated with the picture.

      For the content i think it was good too, but maybe nothing special for just Ma Long.

      Find the weigth transfer most interesting. Do not think everyone does this. Saw a video with Ryu Seung Min explaining that it was his weightransfer that gave hime more backspin which made him won Waldner in the Olympics since he could not play short due to to much spin.

      Also find his stance before playing the third ball interesting. Can imagine he used to have a stance that was more forehandoriented but have changed his playing style a bit since gotten older? you could have elaborated further on this that players can have difference stance depending on playing style

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    19. Top | #11
      IB66 is offline
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      Nice video,
      The ‘small jump’ planting the left foot down when contacting the ball has a couple of purposes, as discussed it helps transfer the weight forward and means that you can then push back to get into the ready position. Also if it’s ‘stamp’ the noise caused can help to disguise the sound made during ball contact.

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