Me playing and loosing sindrome

BTW: this is me doing a similar, but slightly different self hitting exercise as the one Yogi is doing:


I am not showing slow spinny loops like Yogi is. But slow spinny loops can be practiced with either version of self hitting. In this video I was simply showing a method for self hitting where you can get more reps.

I like the quality of spin Yogi is showing in his video. In my video you can see the arc and the acceleration. But they are not emphasizing spin even if the self hit shots do have a lot of spin. This video was originally shot to show someone how to practice getting the body into the ball through self hitting so I am making mid-deep contact while looping. But self hitting is an excellent way to work on thin brushing and various aspects of how you contact the ball.

UpSideDownCarl said:

It would be worth you watching this video. Perhaps watching it 2-3 maybe even 4 times.

In it, it explains why skills you work on in training where you are fed the ball and you just respond, knowing what was coming to you and where the ball was going to be placed is a totally different thing than learning how to do this in a situation where ball placement is random and your opponent has every reason to make it so you have trouble returning the ball.

If, in training you are doing things that you have trouble crossing over into match play, that video could help you understand why. If you get your coach to watch it and incorporate some of the ideas of random training into your coaching sessions, you may improve faster.

But the issue of crossover still might not answer why your serves and pushes have so little spin.

Click to expand...

Try doing FH top spin block excercice, but blocker puts the ball on 2/3 of the table (starting from FH). It will force you to move and anticipate.

EyyT said:

In my training I can loop topping consistently 10 in a row, but in the actual game it doesn't seem there is enought time to loop, and I just get confused then I make a bad shot. I try to loop but there isn't enought time time me

Click to expand...

The self hitting that Carl demo is actually great since the ball stays station. Power is fully in the hit.
That 10 in a row you say, I have to be frank to you, tells almost nothing. I can feed the ball to you, in fact to almost anybody in my club, to make it look like you are that consistent. It’s a good thing when you train with a coach as the balls are fed consistent enough for you to correct your motion easily. But you gotta understand who’s making it consistent. I have the same problem explaining this to my training partner. He can smash my loop all day long with pretty much zero techniques because the loops have the same length, same placement, same balance of spin and power all day long. Nothing is his. Whereas I work bloody hard to make my ball consistent regardless of how he feeds me. When I try to spin it a little more, he always blames some dirt on the table, not trying to understand the kick I add. When I get bored, I just cut the power off and he misses the contact all the time.

This is why I said you should try keeping the basics when you practise with less consistent partners. You don’t do that to win the point.

EyyT said:

Só I guess is just time training and experience rather than trying out new equipment every week...

Click to expand...

Quality of training matters too..

Kuba Hajto said:

Yogi_bear had a nice instructional video about learning to brush properly. Also you can try to brush the ball of the bottle without moving the bottle.

Click to expand...

the bottle one is really good!! You can do it on both FH and BH, BH is harder to a certain extent because the ball is slightly obscured by the bat as you strike the ball !! It’s harder to judge, or is for me!!

Der_Echte said:

Someone mentioned training to spin .. I know that is not absolutely necessary to reach a reasonably good amateur level like usatt2000. I have seen players who cannot spell the word spin correctly even if you offered them a usd 1 Million prize.

Having said that, I believe it is absolutely the right way to go. Spin offers consistency, safety, and control in a much wider range of shot situations and takes pressure off you on your precision

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

Spin, and controlled spin, offers so much more variation as well, more options, more for your opponent to think about and deal with!!

IB66 said:

the bottle one is really good!! You can do it on both FH and BH, BH is harder to a certain extent because the ball is slightly obscured by the bat as you strike the ball !! It’s harder to judge, or is for me!!

Click to expand...

The self hitting exercise I am doing can be done with BH or FH. For FH, it really does not work well unless you are all the way to the BH corner as I am so you can have you body to the side of the table since you are contacting the ball over the table.

However, for BH, contacting the ball over the table is easy so it can be done on any part of the table. It also has the advantage that you are trying to contact the ball precisely while the ball is an actual moving target.

I do think Yogi's version of self hitting is very useful as well. Both are better than either one alone.

However, video analysis and doing certain kinds of training drills like serve and receive drills where you recreate a match situation, but with a structure, can be very useful.

IB66 said:

the bottle one is really good!! You can do it on both FH and BH, BH is harder to a certain extent because the ball is slightly obscured by the bat as you strike the ball !! It’s harder to judge, or is for me!!

Click to expand...

I had more issues with forehand stroke on that one. BH was much closer to the body.

Kuba Hajto said:

Found the video i mentioned earleir.

It is potato quality but you can see how to do it clearly. You do not need opponent for this. Heck you even do not need table..

PS: It is my 1000th post, yay.

EDIT: I spent days doing this very exercice when pandemic started, because I had nothing better to do, and it helps developing the feeling of the ball during brushing stroke.

Click to expand...

There’s another exercise that is good for learning to brush the ball, 2 people needed though.
1 player feeds balls by rolling them along the table, fast enough so they run off the end by 150 to 200mm, the other player then has to play a FH brush loop from below the table level !! This means to ball has to be brushed correctly to get it to arc back onto the table.
This exercise is more for Topspin v backspin so bat face is more ‘open’ but it really enforces the ‘feeling’ of brushing the ball.
Added advantage is that you will have to get down lower, bend your knees etc which is something else that was noticed.
Of course, you can do what’s shown in the video, hit the ball just above table height, or let it drop lower!!

Der_Echte said:

Someone mentioned training to spin .. I know that is not absolutely necessary to reach a reasonably good amateur level like usatt2000. I have seen players who cannot spell the word spin correctly even if you offered them a usd 1 Million prize.

Having said that, I believe it is absolutely the right way to go. Spin offers consistency, safety, and control in a much wider range of shot situations and takes pressure off you on your precision

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

IB66 said:

Spin, and controlled spin, offers so much more variation as well, more options, more for your opponent to think about and deal with!!

Click to expand...

Trust me, Der knows what you are saying and, in part he is saying what he is saying because he is a trouble maker. But, in part because it is also true that that there are certain people who are very high level, VERY HIGH LEVEL, who hit back dead balls, slap the ball, do weird things, don't use topspin how a traditional player does.

But these guys are actually artists. And they can spin the ball. They have just, after years and sometimes decades of play, developed a style that is evil and impossible to play against.

I have heard 2500 level players say they hate playing Richard Dewitt because he brings their level down and it takes them a while after playing him to get back up. I could name others. But Rich is probably one of the best at this kind of artistry. Look him up. Watch him play. Note, he is using Mark V rubber. Also note, when he was young, either a teenager or in his 20s, he spent a year training in Sweden, and back then, he was a two winged looper.

I have seen him terrorize players several levels higher than him even if he loses.

Tahl Leibovitz is a player who spins the hell out of the ball, but he also loves to hit flat shots and crazy weird stuff. He is 2 notches higher than Rich. He is also a total artist as a player.

Those two play with tradition smooth rubber and when the want, they hit shots that make their opponent think they are using pips.

JP Kadzinski is another player who flat hits everything. But he uses LP on one side and MP on the other. Still, to the untrained eye he looks like he cannot play well. But he is quite a high level player.

So, Der knows the benefits of high levels of spin. He is just presenting something true while causing trouble.

If EyyT wanted to play like the guy whose shirt black shirt says JP on it:


Then maybe he can get very good without using any spin.

More footage of JP vs Edmund (no-spin vs spin). But notice how much spin JP gets on his serves.


Decently high level no spin play. Although, not has high level as Rich, or Tahl.

Kuba Hajto said:

I had more issues with forehand stroke on that one. BH was much closer to the body.

Click to expand...

i found the FH easier, especially when I got right down low, eyes level with the ball, (I was using a bottle that stood about 250mm above our dinning table)

Just get a coach. You're far from the basic.
If you happen to live in Yuanlin area, I know a good coach.

UpSideDownCarl said:

More footage of JP vs Edmund (no-spin vs spin). But notice how much spin JP gets on his serves.

Decently high level no spin play. Although, not has high level as Rich, or Tahl.

Click to expand...

There’s a guy I’ve played a few times, I was chatting to him and he said he was an average club player until another player taught him how to flat hit properly. There’s definitely an art to it !! More so than people think.

He is now in the top 5 players in my local (very local) league, and in the premier division of a much better league has a win average of around 75%.
He never really learnt to spin the ball though, not brushing technique , whilst chatting, he said this was one thing he sort of wished he had also learnt to do, as it would have given him far more flexibility and variation options.

Another very good player from way back when I was a junior, used to play with the old Barna OX pimples, he could drop off and chop the hell out of that ball, float em, vary the spin on the chop all with the same action. Then close to the table, flat hit, block, punch block, topspin ( topspin stroke ).
Then he could put the Barna away, pick up his inverted bat and spin you off the table!! He just knew all the shots, he could do it all.
However he loved playing with the OX pimples, flat hitting no spin play at the table, then (using your spin) chopping defensive play away from the table when he chose. Never saw him counter loop with that set up though!!!

At the end of the day, if you can learn all the techniques, then you have more choice what ‘style’ of player to be.
Interestingly, I have never been taught to ‘flat hit’ correctly. As you say ‘spin everything’

To be brutal honest: I really don't know if he is ready for "spin that, spin this". I mean, look at his serves, somebody who is failing more than 2 serves within 2 sets is really at the basic level and should in my opinion start with ball control exercises away from the table and drive rather than top spin.
The serves were even basic ones where we in Germany say "eingeworfen".
@EyyT: Can you play drills? I mean, really consistently play drills? What I would do if I were you: Use the Arctic Wood with both sides Yasaka Mark V 2.0 and train a full year with this setup. The rubbers should last that long. Do drills. Start with the basics of the basics. Train your legs and tour core. Don't write or read in this forum this whole year. Take lessons with a decent coach or try to find people who are better than you and willing to feed you drills.

One thing the 2000, the 2200+, and even those higher than that who do not spin the ball a whole lot have in common are very strong fundamentals of balance, recovery, command of strike zone, and great biomechanics.

One Northeast player Carl left off is Boston's Jay Lee who uses mp/lp on a cpen bat. He plays with touch and will fh put it away if you do not make an error first.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

The message ingo has is i believe a true one. Dude would just simply benefit from effective coaching often and for a very long duration than worry about equipment. (Once he gets whatever middle of road stuff appropriate)

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

Haha just saw eingeworfen. Good stuff.

I would advocate for a new participle verb in slang.

weg_gepisst in USA slang I would say dude pissed away the point, just like you would if you drank hefeweissen brewed in Hamburg, instead of in Bayreuth or Munich or somewhere proper.



Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk